Future of non-cycling discussion on Bike Hub

[Delarey]

I kinda agree..I tried to see sarcasm in that..I could not

What I saw was a ball that should have been left for the keeper. He however got quite a few players to take a swing at it. That in itself counts for something these days I suppose.

[Patchelicious]

What I saw was a ball that should have been left for the keeper. He however got quite a few players to take a swing at it. That in itself counts for something these days I suppose.

Yes, it was a No Ball. Edited December 5, 2020 by Patchelicious

[splat]

What I saw was a ball that should have been left for the keeper. He however got quite a few players to take a swing at it. That in itself counts for something these days I suppose.

 

 

Yes, it was a No Ball.

 

An own goal perhaps ?

[Delarey]

An own goal perhaps ?

Or just a storm in a teacup. People are entitled to their opinions, but not all opinions deserve to get this much airtime #EFF #Brackenfell, etc, etc.

[SwissVan]

Thanks for your input but my sense of humor is well and alive.

 

However, no matter how many times I read that post and try to see the funny side of it, sorry still not funny ...

 

No one said it was funny

 

Like I said, don’t take life so serious, relax, deep breaths....1 2 3 repeat

 

Chrispy is a call a spade....not a spade, neither a bloody spade, but a F****N black spade type of poster. Read between the lines, the method of delivery does not mean the message is wrong.

[Matt]

Some quick house keeping: This topic has been renamed and split out from Quagga's original question. That's been resolved and is unrelated to this broader discussion. 

---

This should have been handled quite differently rather than dropping something of a grenade in an unrelated thread. My apologies for the manner in which it was raised and the silence since. It's an important topic for me personally and one I've not been able to give proper attention to in the last week.

 

The reason for the existence of Chit Chat or non-cycling discussion section on Bike Hub is to build a sense of community away from just bikes. Yes, we're all here because of a common interest in bicycles but bikes aren't all we're about. And for the most part it's served that purpose well for those who wanted to participate. Personally, I feel it served an important role in building the early Bike Hub community and for that reason I've always regarded it as a non-negotiable.

More recently though it has been dominated by divisive topics like the US election and Covid-19. From the snippets I've encountered many Hubbers engaging in these discussions have done so in a mature, respectful manner. But unfortunately many others have not. But beyond any individual's conduct, it seems these topics have embedded a level of intolerance and impatience that crosses over into many other cycling related topics. Ultimately this is detrimental to the experience for Hubbers within those sections, many of whom aren't here for the Chit Chat.

 

This raises some questions around WHY the Chit Chat section exists on Bike Hub in 2020. What purpose does it serve now? How does it add value to the broader community of Hubbers. And while it's not the first time we've questioned this, it's perhaps the first time removing it has been seriously considered.

If we look at it purely from a numbers perspective: Chit chat accounts for 0.6% of our monthly users and 0.9% of our monthly page views, with 3.5% of total forum users participating in or viewing Chit Chat. Simply put, it's not there to generate page views or revenue. It exists with the sole purpose to enhance the community dynamic on Bike Hub. But if it's not serving that purpose or worse having a negative effect on the community, should it still exist?

As many have suggested here, outright removal is perhaps extreme. But in the muddy world of online discussions it makes it very clear what should be discussed and what shouldn't. In that sense, it would be the cleanest solution.

Other options we've considered:

• Limit topics, e.g. no politics or religion (commonly the most divisive and problematic). It would need some policing but is an option.
• More moderation: based on the numbers this makes zero sense from a business perspective. Volunteer moderators are an option, but still require a level of input in oversight & assistance that's just not justified from a business perspective.
• No moderation (free for all in these sections): We're not far from that currently... it doesn't work. No matter how many warning signs there are, the scars from those unfettered battles will affect the cycling related discussion.

From a pure numbers perspective it looks pretty simple, yet this is something I've grappled with. Even a fraction of a % represents a meaningful number of people, many of whom I'd regard as "founding members". Names I've come to know over a decade and a half, some even in person. However, sentiment alone can't be the reason to hold on to it.

Bike Hub has grown into something far beyond its humble beginnings as "just a forum". It serves a wide audience of diverse people who visit the site predominantly to buy, sell, discuss or learn about bikes. As tough as it will be, as it continues to grow and evolve there may well be some parts of the "old Bike Hub" that we have to let go of.

[DR ◣◢]

Kill the chit chat but please leave the “Petition to bring back the classifieds comments” thread.

 

Personally i’m here for that thread and the cycling / training related threads.

 

If i wanted to participate in a mud slinging and general chit chat vibe i’d take it to the My Broadband forums.

[Patchelicious]

Some quick house keeping: This topic has been renamed and split out from Quagga's original question. That's been resolved and is unrelated to this broader discussion.

 

---

 

This should have been handled quite differently rather than dropping something of a grenade in an unrelated thread. My apologies for the manner in which it was raised and the silence since. It's an important topic for me personally and one I've not been able to give proper attention to in the last week.

 

The reason for the existence of Chit Chat or non-cycling discussion section on Bike Hub is to build a sense of community away from just bikes. Yes, we're all here because of a common interest in bicycles but bikes aren't all we're about. And for the most part it's served that purpose well for those who wanted to participate. Personally, I feel it served an important role in building the early Bike Hub community and for that reason I've always regarded it as a non-negotiable.

 

More recently though it has been dominated by divisive topics like the US election and Covid-19. From the snippets I've encountered many Hubbers engaging in these discussions have done so in a mature, respectful manner. But unfortunately many others have not. But beyond any individual's conduct, it seems these topics have embedded a level of intolerance and impatience that crosses over into many other cycling related topics. Ultimately this is detrimental to the experience for Hubbers within those sections, many of whom aren't here for the Chit Chat.

 

This raises some questions around WHY the Chit Chat section exists on Bike Hub in 2020. What purpose does it serve now? How does it add value to the broader community of Hubbers. And while it's not the first time we've questioned this, it's perhaps the first time removing it has been seriously considered.

 

If we look at it purely from a numbers perspective: Chit chat accounts for 0.6% of our monthly users and 0.9% of our monthly page views, with 3.5% of total forum users participating in or viewing Chit Chat. Simply put, it's not there to generate page views or revenue. It exists with the sole purpose to enhance the community dynamic on Bike Hub. But if it's not serving that purpose or worse having a negative effect on the community, should it still exist?

 

As many have suggested here, outright removal is perhaps extreme. But in the muddy world of online discussions it makes it very clear what should be discussed and what shouldn't. In that sense, it would be the cleanest solution.

 

Other options we've considered:

• Limit topics, e.g. no politics or religion (commonly the most divisive and problematic). It would need some policing but is an option.
• More moderation: based on the numbers this makes zero sense from a business perspective. Volunteer moderators are an option, but still require a level of input in oversight & assistance that's just not justified from a business perspective.
• No moderation (free for all in these sections): We're not far from that currently... it doesn't work. No matter how many warning signs there are, the scars from those unfettered battles will affect the cycling related discussion.

From a pure numbers perspective it looks pretty simple, yet this is something I've grappled with. Even a fraction of a % represents a meaningful number of people, many of whom I'd regard as "founding members". Names I've come to know over a decade and a half, some even in person. However, sentiment alone can't be the reason to hold on to it.

 

Bike Hub has grown into something far beyond its humble beginnings as "just a forum". It serves a wide audience of diverse people who visit the site predominantly to buy, sell, discuss or learn about bikes. As tough as it will be, as it continues to grow and evolve there may well be some parts of the "old Bike Hub" that we have to let go of.

If those are the numbers of Chit Chat, it’s a very easy decision.

Kill it. There will be fallout and people will be upset. But if there is such scale outside of the Chit Chat, then BikeHub will survive.

[Hairy]

A thread like "I have an idea" or "song of the day" .. would those also be chopped if you determine to loose the chit chat option?

 

Actually there are a couple of decent chit chat threads.....maybe the politics and religion ban is the way to go to retain the community vibe threads?

[Wayne Potgieter]

I had no idea the chit chat section was such a small % of activity. As a person that uses that area exclusively, it feels like the biggest portion of the hub. I suppose perspective is a wonderful thing.

 

Everything has a season.

[coppi]

I agree to removing the sensitive topics but leave the rest for now........we don’t want the cycling topics to become corrupted by mud slinging idiots if there is no other option.........

[WrightJnr]

I can’t believe Chit Chat that insignificant. We are talking about topics like.

 

1. Show us your Pets (430k views)

2. New Zealand Good Bad Ugly

3. Movie Thread

4. Calling all you Gamers

5. Football

6. I have an idea of a new thread (8 million views)

7. Time to get the hell out of here (700k views!!)

8. Post your Woodwork here

9. Aviation Fans

10. Car Porn

11. Is motorcycling allowed

 

Considering the above, probably 90% of what I come to the Forums for as they are either informative or feel good for me....

 

Sure maybe some could be moved but they are all non cycling related at least.

 

For me, it’s simple. Kill the Politics and Religious threads. Strict moderation/banning for those who create or refer to such in any way.

[jimmycool]

Some quick house keeping: This topic has been renamed and split out from Quagga's original question. That's been resolved and is unrelated to this broader discussion.

 

---

 

This should have been handled quite differently rather than dropping something of a grenade in an unrelated thread. My apologies for the manner in which it was raised and the silence since. It's an important topic for me personally and one I've not been able to give proper attention to in the last week.

 

The reason for the existence of Chit Chat or non-cycling discussion section on Bike Hub is to build a sense of community away from just bikes. Yes, we're all here because of a common interest in bicycles but bikes aren't all we're about. And for the most part it's served that purpose well for those who wanted to participate. Personally, I feel it served an important role in building the early Bike Hub community and for that reason I've always regarded it as a non-negotiable.

 

More recently though it has been dominated by divisive topics like the US election and Covid-19. From the snippets I've encountered many Hubbers engaging in these discussions have done so in a mature, respectful manner. But unfortunately many others have not. But beyond any individual's conduct, it seems these topics have embedded a level of intolerance and impatience that crosses over into many other cycling related topics. Ultimately this is detrimental to the experience for Hubbers within those sections, many of whom aren't here for the Chit Chat.

 

This raises some questions around WHY the Chit Chat section exists on Bike Hub in 2020. What purpose does it serve now? How does it add value to the broader community of Hubbers. And while it's not the first time we've questioned this, it's perhaps the first time removing it has been seriously considered.

 

If we look at it purely from a numbers perspective: Chit chat accounts for 0.6% of our monthly users and 0.9% of our monthly page views, with 3.5% of total forum users participating in or viewing Chit Chat. Simply put, it's not there to generate page views or revenue. It exists with the sole purpose to enhance the community dynamic on Bike Hub. But if it's not serving that purpose or worse having a negative effect on the community, should it still exist?

 

As many have suggested here, outright removal is perhaps extreme. But in the muddy world of online discussions it makes it very clear what should be discussed and what shouldn't. In that sense, it would be the cleanest solution.

 

Other options we've considered:

• Limit topics, e.g. no politics or religion (commonly the most divisive and problematic). It would need some policing but is an option.
• More moderation: based on the numbers this makes zero sense from a business perspective. Volunteer moderators are an option, but still require a level of input in oversight & assistance that's just not justified from a business perspective.
• No moderation (free for all in these sections): We're not far from that currently... it doesn't work. No matter how many warning signs there are, the scars from those unfettered battles will affect the cycling related discussion.

From a pure numbers perspective it looks pretty simple, yet this is something I've grappled with. Even a fraction of a % represents a meaningful number of people, many of whom I'd regard as "founding members". Names I've come to know over a decade and a half, some even in person. However, sentiment alone can't be the reason to hold on to it.

 

Bike Hub has grown into something far beyond its humble beginnings as "just a forum". It serves a wide audience of diverse people who visit the site predominantly to buy, sell, discuss or learn about bikes. As tough as it will be, as it continues to grow and evolve there may well be some parts of the "old Bike Hub" that we have to let go of.

Those are some interesting statistics.

However, the one I am interested in is not the percentage of page impressions that the off topic section gets compared to the whole site but rather the percentage of the forum section only.

I appreciate that only 3.5 percent of the users are active in the off topic section but I would guess that a lot of them are orders of magnitude more active than other casual visitors to the whole site in general.

Is it possible to tell us how many page views the whole forum gets compared to how many page views the off topic section gets?

Thanks.

[Chris_]

Some quick house keeping: This topic has been renamed and split out from Quagga's original question. That's been resolved and is unrelated to this broader discussion.

 

---

 

This should have been handled quite differently rather than dropping something of a grenade in an unrelated thread. My apologies for the manner in which it was raised and the silence since. It's an important topic for me personally and one I've not been able to give proper attention to in the last week.

 

The reason for the existence of Chit Chat or non-cycling discussion section on Bike Hub is to build a sense of community away from just bikes. Yes, we're all here because of a common interest in bicycles but bikes aren't all we're about. And for the most part it's served that purpose well for those who wanted to participate. Personally, I feel it served an important role in building the early Bike Hub community and for that reason I've always regarded it as a non-negotiable.

 

More recently though it has been dominated by divisive topics like the US election and Covid-19. From the snippets I've encountered many Hubbers engaging in these discussions have done so in a mature, respectful manner. But unfortunately many others have not. But beyond any individual's conduct, it seems these topics have embedded a level of intolerance and impatience that crosses over into many other cycling related topics. Ultimately this is detrimental to the experience for Hubbers within those sections, many of whom aren't here for the Chit Chat.

 

This raises some questions around WHY the Chit Chat section exists on Bike Hub in 2020. What purpose does it serve now? How does it add value to the broader community of Hubbers. And while it's not the first time we've questioned this, it's perhaps the first time removing it has been seriously considered.

 

If we look at it purely from a numbers perspective: Chit chat accounts for 0.6% of our monthly users and 0.9% of our monthly page views, with 3.5% of total forum users participating in or viewing Chit Chat. Simply put, it's not there to generate page views or revenue. It exists with the sole purpose to enhance the community dynamic on Bike Hub. But if it's not serving that purpose or worse having a negative effect on the community, should it still exist?

 

As many have suggested here, outright removal is perhaps extreme. But in the muddy world of online discussions it makes it very clear what should be discussed and what shouldn't. In that sense, it would be the cleanest solution.

 

Other options we've considered:

• Limit topics, e.g. no politics or religion (commonly the most divisive and problematic). It would need some policing but is an option.
• More moderation: based on the numbers this makes zero sense from a business perspective. Volunteer moderators are an option, but still require a level of input in oversight & assistance that's just not justified from a business perspective.
• No moderation (free for all in these sections): We're not far from that currently... it doesn't work. No matter how many warning signs there are, the scars from those unfettered battles will affect the cycling related discussion.

From a pure numbers perspective it looks pretty simple, yet this is something I've grappled with. Even a fraction of a % represents a meaningful number of people, many of whom I'd regard as "founding members". Names I've come to know over a decade and a half, some even in person. However, sentiment alone can't be the reason to hold on to it.

 

Bike Hub has grown into something far beyond its humble beginnings as "just a forum". It serves a wide audience of diverse people who visit the site predominantly to buy, sell, discuss or learn about bikes. As tough as it will be, as it continues to grow and evolve there may well be some parts of the "old Bike Hub" that we have to let go of.

I thought the problem was with the Covid and politics threads. Those are in the current affairs section and not chit chat. (well, until recently, but the global politics one is prob in the wrong section)

 

What are the stats for the current affairs space? If that one is indeed the issue, otherwise apols for misreading.

 

Edit: that monthly page views is an incredible stat. Does this include all the classifieds pages too? It would be fascinating to see a full breakdown.

Edited December 6, 2020 by Chris_

[Matt]

I can’t believe Chit Chat that insignificant. We are talking about topics like.

 

1. Show us your Pets (430k views)

2. New Zealand Good Bad Ugly

3. Movie Thread

4. Calling all you Gamers

5. Football

6. I have an idea of a new thread (8 million views)

7. Time to get the hell out of here (700k views!!)

8. Post your Woodwork here

9. Aviation Fans

10. Car Porn

11. Is motorcycling allowed

 

Considering the above, probably 90% of what I come to the Forums for as they are either informative or feel good for me....

 

Sure maybe some could be moved but they are all non cycling related at least.

 

For me, it’s simple. Kill the Politics and Religious threads. Strict moderation/banning for those who create or refer to such in any way.

Although the threads you point out do each have significant stats, most of these have been accumulated over a number of years. So when we look at the monthly activity relative to the rest of the site it does only account for a small fraction in a given month.

 

 

Those are some interesting statistics.

However, the one I am interested in is not the percentage of page impressions that the off topic section gets compared to the whole site but rather the percentage of the forum section only.

I appreciate that only 3.5 percent of the users are active in the off topic section but I would guess that a lot of them are orders of magnitude more active than other casual visitors to the whole site in general.

Is it possible to tell us how many page views the whole forum gets compared to how many page views the off topic section gets?

Thanks.

If we look at the forums only, here are the numbers from November to give you an idea:

 

Off-topic Users as a % of total forum users: 1.96% *** Correction on the 3.5% stat quoted, that was based on a 7 day avg., over 30 days it reduces. 

 

Off-topic Page views as a % of total forum page views: 13.2% 

 

 

I thought the problem was with the Covid and politics threads. Those are in the current affairs section and not chit chat. (well, until recently, but the global politics one is prob in the wrong section)

 

What are the stats for the current affairs space? If that one is indeed the issue, otherwise apols for misreading.

 

Edit: that monthly page views is an incredible stat. Does this include all the classifieds pages too? It would be fascinating to see a full breakdown.

When I mention "Chit Chat" I'm referring to all the Off-topic forums in general, including Chit Chat, Current Affairs, etc.

 

Here's a high-level breakdown across the sections for November 2020:

 

[jimmycool]

Although the threads you point out do each have significant stats, most of these have been accumulated over a number of years. So when we look at the monthly activity relative to the rest of the site it does only account for a small fraction in a given month.

 

 

If we look at the forums only, here are the numbers from November to give you an idea:

 

Off-topic Users as a % of total forum users: 1.96% *** Correction on the 3.5% stat quoted, that was based on a 7 day avg., over 30 days it reduces.

 

Off-topic Page views as a % of total forum page views: 13.2%

 

 

When I mention "Chit Chat" I'm referring to all the Off-topic forums in general, including Chit Chat, Current Affairs, etc.

 

Here's a high-level breakdown across the sections for November 2020:

 

Screenshot 2020-12-06 at 08.42.36.png

Thanks very much.

That helps to put things into a bit better perspective.

 

So roughly 2% of forum users generate over 13% of the forum page views?

 

Is the total forum users stat inclusive of all site-wide users or just the ones who actually visit the forum pages?