What would you be willing to pay for a “grey” bike?

[splat]

Sounds interesting.

Warranty support on the frame is one thing, but many local distributers wont touch any components (brakes, drivetrain, tyres, wheels or suspension) that have been imported through grey/parallel channels.
So would this theoretical brand distributer cover warranty on all parts of the bike ?

Perhaps a frame only option would be better/easier to operate. Much like the guys who are bringing in carbon frames etc from China.

[MORNE]

6 minutes ago, splat said:

Sounds interesting.

Warranty support on the frame is one thing, but many local distributers wont touch any components (brakes, drivetrain, tyres, wheels or suspension) that have been imported through grey/parallel channels.
So would this theoretical brand distributer cover warranty on all parts of the bike ?

Perhaps a frame only option would be better/easier to operate. Much like the guys who are bringing in carbon frames etc from China.

you'll be beter off just ordering some more grey import parts if they break anyway...especially shimano haha. because by the time the warranty your parts you will have stripped your moer and just bought something else anyway. Not to mention you'll never get them to order you spare parts for the components anyway. (in the case of c@#lh$%t)

i have absolutely 0 issue bringin in my own components. They aren't made of glass and unless they have a serious design flaw (early NX or 12 speed shimano etc) or manufacturing fault you'd have no reason to warrantee them anyway. And even then i'm sure they'd figure out a way to tell you it's your fault that it's broken because it wasn't installed or maintained by a qualified mechanic lol.

[MORNE]

ps..true story. Got a new frame this week and inside the little info booklet in the box it says in very small print in a sea of other text that the warranty is basically only really valid if the frame is prepped and built up by a qualified mechanic haha....you know because Elon Musk has a skunkworks devision at Space-X dedicated to the rocket science that is the bicycle.... 

[dasilvarsa]

I would pay 50% of the Non Grey Price.

Treat it as a Second Hand Deal.

[DonatelloOnPinarello]

After some consideration, and taking everyone’s opinions here into account, and also running the numbers, it’s probably not going to be worth the effort to go down this road. We will look into something more profitable to fill up the empty space in our crates, or just leave it empty. It’s not like we are losing anything (other than the wasted space). 
 

to confirm what a few have already summised, and to save the rest of you from wondering, the bikes in question would have been Vitus trail bikes. We would easily have been able to land them, delivered to your door, all duties and taxes paid, at about 25-30% less than if you were to import them directly from CRC or Wiggle. However, the consensus here would imply we would need to be at least half price for this to make sense, and that simply wouldn’t work.

I was incorrect about the warranty being a multi user warranty, but my associate in Ireland confirmed that the end user/buyer - ie you, would have benefitted in full from the factory warranty. We would have acted as the intermediary in processing warranty claims, and handling shipping of replacement frames etc if needed, at no cost to the buyer, but we would not be providing a direct warranty ourselves.

Indicative pricing on currently available stock would have been:

Sentier VRS - +-R33k (direct order, plus the cheapest shipping option, using parcel force/SAPO would cost R38500)

Mythique VRX - +- R35k (direct order, plus cheapest shipping option would cost about around R43000.00)

When 2022 stock comes avaialble towards end of September, the Escarpe CR would cost around R45k all in, and the top end CRX about R78k all in.

 

But, thanks for all the inputs, insights and comments in general. It would seem that the risk/reward ratio on this just isn’t worth the effort. And that is exactly what I set out to ascertain. So thanks to all for the inputs. 

[DonatelloOnPinarello]

15 hours ago, eddy said:

Import duty on complete bikes is 100% 

No, it’s definately 15%. Less if the bike is actually manufactured in the EU, but that for almost all intents as purposes does not exist.

[NeverNotRolling]

58 minutes ago, DonatelloOnPinarello said:

After some consideration, and taking everyone’s opinions here into account, and also running the numbers, it’s probably not going to be worth the effort to go down this road. We will look into something more profitable to fill up the empty space in our crates, or just leave it empty. It’s not like we are losing anything (other than the wasted space). 
 

to confirm what a few have already summised, and to save the rest of you from wondering, the bikes in question would have been Vitus trail bikes. We would easily have been able to land them, delivered to your door, all duties and taxes paid, at about 25-30% less than if you were to import them directly from CRC or Wiggle. However, the consensus here would imply we would need to be at least half price for this to make sense, and that simply wouldn’t work.

I was incorrect about the warranty being a multi user warranty, but my associate in Ireland confirmed that the end user/buyer - ie you, would have benefitted in full from the factory warranty. We would have acted as the intermediary in processing warranty claims, and handling shipping of replacement frames etc if needed, at no cost to the buyer, but we would not be providing a direct warranty ourselves.

Indicative pricing on currently available stock would have been:

Sentier VRS - +-R33k (direct order, plus the cheapest shipping option, using parcel force/SAPO would cost R38500)

Mythique VRX - +- R35k (direct order, plus cheapest shipping option would cost about around R43000.00)

When 2022 stock comes avaialble towards end of September, the Escarpe CR would cost around R45k all in, and the top end CRX about R78k all in.

 

But, thanks for all the inputs, insights and comments in general. It would seem that the risk/reward ratio on this just isn’t worth the effort. And that is exactly what I set out to ascertain. So thanks to all for the inputs. 

 

Kudos for asking the people what they want and doing some market research ????

[stefmeister]

1 hour ago, DonatelloOnPinarello said:

After some consideration, and taking everyone’s opinions here into account, and also running the numbers, it’s probably not going to be worth the effort to go down this road. We will look into something more profitable to fill up the empty space in our crates, or just leave it empty. It’s not like we are losing anything (other than the wasted space). 
 

to confirm what a few have already summised, and to save the rest of you from wondering, the bikes in question would have been Vitus trail bikes. We would easily have been able to land them, delivered to your door, all duties and taxes paid, at about 25-30% less than if you were to import them directly from CRC or Wiggle. However, the consensus here would imply we would need to be at least half price for this to make sense, and that simply wouldn’t work.

I was incorrect about the warranty being a multi user warranty, but my associate in Ireland confirmed that the end user/buyer - ie you, would have benefitted in full from the factory warranty. We would have acted as the intermediary in processing warranty claims, and handling shipping of replacement frames etc if needed, at no cost to the buyer, but we would not be providing a direct warranty ourselves.

Indicative pricing on currently available stock would have been:

Sentier VRS - +-R33k (direct order, plus the cheapest shipping option, using parcel force/SAPO would cost R38500)

Mythique VRX - +- R35k (direct order, plus cheapest shipping option would cost about around R43000.00)

When 2022 stock comes avaialble towards end of September, the Escarpe CR would cost around R45k all in, and the top end CRX about R78k all in.

 

But, thanks for all the inputs, insights and comments in general. It would seem that the risk/reward ratio on this just isn’t worth the effort. And that is exactly what I set out to ascertain. So thanks to all for the inputs. 

It's a tough market lately, when you consider that R40k basically just gets you Sram SX/RS Judy components, although there are still similar deals here and there compared to the Vitus with Merida 120 with marzo/slx eg. So R5k saving probably isn't enough to sway the average buyer away from Scott/Spez. The guy spending R40k on SX/Judy bike is probably beginner rider and it's only important that the label on his fork says rockshox and his "jockey" is xt. 

The more discerning buyer will probably seek out better value in the classifieds. Going higher up, a15% saving might seem worthwhile for an imported bike, but then you have a lot more options if you can drop ~R70k.

 

[Mountain Bru]

1 hour ago, DonatelloOnPinarello said:

After some consideration, and taking everyone’s opinions here into account, and also running the numbers, it’s probably not going to be worth the effort to go down this road. We will look into something more profitable to fill up the empty space in our crates, or just leave it empty. It’s not like we are losing anything (other than the wasted space). 
 

to confirm what a few have already summised, and to save the rest of you from wondering, the bikes in question would have been Vitus trail bikes. We would easily have been able to land them, delivered to your door, all duties and taxes paid, at about 25-30% less than if you were to import them directly from CRC or Wiggle. However, the consensus here would imply we would need to be at least half price for this to make sense, and that simply wouldn’t work.

I was incorrect about the warranty being a multi user warranty, but my associate in Ireland confirmed that the end user/buyer - ie you, would have benefitted in full from the factory warranty. We would have acted as the intermediary in processing warranty claims, and handling shipping of replacement frames etc if needed, at no cost to the buyer, but we would not be providing a direct warranty ourselves.

Indicative pricing on currently available stock would have been:

Sentier VRS - +-R33k (direct order, plus the cheapest shipping option, using parcel force/SAPO would cost R38500)

Mythique VRX - +- R35k (direct order, plus cheapest shipping option would cost about around R43000.00)

When 2022 stock comes avaialble towards end of September, the Escarpe CR would cost around R45k all in, and the top end CRX about R78k all in.

 

But, thanks for all the inputs, insights and comments in general. It would seem that the risk/reward ratio on this just isn’t worth the effort. And that is exactly what I set out to ascertain. So thanks to all for the inputs. 

It sounds like the thing you actually have that's valuable is shipping space, not an amazing deal with a bicycle manufacturer. So bicycles fit in that shipping space, but so does anything else. Even if it takes 3 weeks to deliver, I'd happily wait that long to have something delivered if it means avoiding the SAPO (which could take 3 months). 

As an example, I was looking at stages power meters in the US.... $375 for the power meter (around R5400), but then shipping was a ludicrous $149 (around R2000) (on Competitive Cyclist). Needless to say, I didn't buy the power meter and will probably end up using Aramex global shopper if I do. That'll cost me around R400, which I could just as easily pay to you.

It sounds like if I got it from the EU, it would cost you zero rand to get it in SA, and you could make R400 clean profit. There's enough guys importing stuff from overseas every week for those risk free R400s to add up if they use your "shipping service", especially seen as it would mean getting around geo-blocked components, like shimano stuff, which is probably a big percentage of what guys want to import in any case. There will be a lot more admin with more orders, customs will be an interesting challenge, and you'll have to do some aramex/postnet shipping once the stuff is here, but it would be risk free randelas in your pocket with no warranty issues.   

Basically, I would say, if you want to make profit off your extra shipping space, you should sell the shipping space, not bicycles. 

[Danger Dassie]

7 hours ago, Long Wheel Base said:

Given the OPs user name and the previous Carte Blanche history on grey imports, it must be a chinarello. Until the OP actually tells us the brand(I don't buy this hypothetical nonsense, unless they purely want to up their post count), I will consider them to be Tom Pidcocks bike that he created alongside his sponsor.

The OP did clarify the brand. The CB piece on Chinarellos was about about counterfeit products, not grey imports. I'm not sure his user name has anything to do with the Carte Blanche piece, unless you're inferring the OP was part of the shop involved? 
Pidcock rides a BMC with blacked out branding due to sponsor obligations on the road. 

[ChrisF]

4 hours ago, MORNE said:

ps..true story. Got a new frame this week and inside the little info booklet in the box it says in very small print in a sea of other text that the warranty is basically only really valid if the frame is prepped and built up by a qualified mechanic haha....you know because Elon Musk has a skunkworks devision at Space-X dedicated to the rocket science that is the bicycle.... 

Pretty sure the next chapter must cancel the warantee in the event to scratched the top layer of paint with the bike rack, never mind a minor fall on the trails ....

 

 

Have to wonder what these warantees are actually worth ....

 

DONT forget the ongoing cost of "dealer services" to keep that warantee going ....  AND then having to actually service the bike properly after they took your money ....

[TNT1]

12 minutes ago, ChrisF said:

Pretty sure the next chapter must cancel the warantee in the event to scratched the top layer of paint with the bike rack, never mind a minor fall on the trails ....

 

 

Have to wonder what these warantees are actually worth ....

 

DONT forget the ongoing cost of "dealer services" to keep that warantee going ....  AND then having to actually service the bike properly after they took your money ....

What impact would some "service" on a groupset have on the frame warranty? Surely the warranty on the frame, the gruppo and the wheels are separate things?

 

Do think a frame manufacturer will not a honour a warranty on a catastrophic frame failure because the chain was stretched?

[eddy]

3 hours ago, DonatelloOnPinarello said:

No, it’s definately 15%. Less if the bike is actually manufactured in the EU, but that for almost all intents as purposes does not exist.

You are correct. For some reason I got confused with socks. Apologies

[stringbean]

For those looking only to buy if there is “local backup” have never dealt with shimano SA.

Local backup means didly squat .

If you looking for items to fill your space try and source some cheap Mtb & road chains and clusters.

There is a huge problem with spares worldwide with shimano and sram at the moment and only going to get a lot worse.Looking at what top end sram Mtb clusters are costing as well as chain prices if you could find cheaper alternatives ( and there are lots) the shops would love you.

[stringbean]

2 hours ago, Mountain Bru said:

It sounds like the thing you actually have that's valuable is shipping space, not an amazing deal with a bicycle manufacturer. So bicycles fit in that shipping space, but so does anything else. Even if it takes 3 weeks to deliver, I'd happily wait that long to have something delivered if it means avoiding the SAPO (which could take 3 months). 

As an example, I was looking at stages power meters in the US.... $375 for the power meter (around R5400), but then shipping was a ludicrous $149 (around R2000) (on Competitive Cyclist). Needless to say, I didn't buy the power meter and will probably end up using Aramex global shopper if I do. That'll cost me around R400, which I could just as easily pay to you.

It sounds like if I got it from the EU, it would cost you zero rand to get it in SA, and you could make R400 clean profit. There's enough guys importing stuff from overseas every week for those risk free R400s to add up if they use your "shipping service", especially seen as it would mean getting around geo-blocked components, like shimano stuff, which is probably a big percentage of what guys want to import in any case. There will be a lot more admin with more orders, customs will be an interesting challenge, and you'll have to do some aramex/postnet shipping once the stuff is here, but it would be risk free randelas in your pocket with no warranty issues.   

Basically, I would say, if you want to make profit off your extra shipping space, you should sell the shipping space, not bicycles. 

I currently buy all my sram and shimano stuff from overseas.As mentioned bring in via Aramex global.So basically ship to my local Aramex address overseas ,who then ship to my SA address thus bypassing the so called international block.

Yes I have to pay the vat of the country I’m importing from(example 19% if it was Germany)and then the 15 % SA vat.Along with import duty,usually nothing on part but also shipping.

sounds rough but worst case scenario it has still cost me at LEAST 20% cheaper than ANY online Mtb shop in SA let alone what the lbs charges.

Just shows you how much sram and shimano shaft us here.

[PhilipV]

2 hours ago, ChrisF said:

Pretty sure the next chapter must cancel the warantee in the event to scratched the top layer of paint with the bike rack, never mind a minor fall on the trails ....

 

 

Have to wonder what these warantees are actually worth ....

 

DONT forget the ongoing cost of "dealer services" to keep that warantee going ....  AND then having to actually service the bike properly after they took your money ....

My giant warranty claim for a cracked frame was processed quickly and honored with no questions asked.  That bike was ridden hard, had scratches and eas serviced by me. 

So my anecdotal sample of one says you need not stress about that. 

 

But this was done through my local, and not the shop you are inferring to.