How do you justify a Cape Epic entry?

[DieselnDust]

Just now, MORNE said:

Pretoria

Ah lekker.  I was thinking the only time I recall kids on site was when my department secretary brought her nephew and his chum along to the office. They wanted to see some pictures of the machines in action for a school oral project so I let them peruse the Janes Aviation Books and Janes Fighting Ships. They'd be about 29/30 years old by now. Hopefully they pursued careers in Engineering

no way they'd be allowed anywhere near the exciting stuff at that facility though. I Showed them around the prototyping workshop and metrology lab. Generally kids were not allowed on site (too much HE around) but we did have those family days in December. I'll bet they had a great time telling their pals about the huge mock up in the Composites Building

[stefmeister]

15 hours ago, Jewbacca said:

I'm one of those people who is gobsmacked that car companies build Family cars and People carriers that can exceed the speed limit. I hate driving, I hate loud noises, I think all cars that don't just get you from A to B are absolutely stupid and I am not impressed by how quickly things go.

I think motor sport is absolutely stupid, I think space travel is even more futile and seeing Bezos and That other idiot have a space race was probably one of the most pointless, wasteful things I have ever had to listen to people get excited about.

Nothing you say about it will change my mind. I raced cars, I rode motorbikes, I drove a diesel oil dispenser.... It's 100% unnecessary.

I am big enough to say 'I was wrong, these things shouldn't exist in todays environment and like slavery and gender assumption should be put out to pasture with all the other popular past times and triviality of a bygone era'..... 

You were doing so well up until this post. ????

[The Ouzo]

15 hours ago, DieselnDust said:

I for one love how fast we can make things go. But there is a place for it.

Space race…bring it on. Apollo inspired me. May spacex inspire a new generation.

build me a better bike (shjoe that MoBu hey...)

s better car even if it is electric

i want my own personal flying car. I hate traffic 

And a holiday house on the moon so I watch the earth rise while sipping espresso 

you do realise that once everyone migrates to flying cars the traffic jams will just be in the air instead of on the ground.

Seeing the way the average SAFA drives, I dont want to be in the air with them driving.

[stefmeister]

14 hours ago, MORNE said:

Dont want to drag this on any further. We’ll agree to disagree and no hard feelings, i still like you????

 Yes sure. All i meant to say was you cant complain about how crap  something is because it being stupid in your opinion and then be a hypocrite and still draw the benifits of said crap thing everyday you turn on you computer, start your car, etc etc etc. Youd quite literally have to go live in a grass hut off the grid somewhere in animal skin…but then you’ll need a tool one day and make one..and the cycle starts again.

My list is not exhaustive  because id literally have to list everything you touch in a day. Even a bicycle.

I maintain, My initial argument was about the benefits of having something like motorsport as a think tank for ideas and concepts. Thats why manufacturers do it…for R&D, not to make lewis hamilton more famous.

Yes, i can agree that racing around in circles can be considered stupid, if you look at it in isolation. But doing something creates a need to be better at it, beat the competition. Beating the compition means getting creative with HOW you go about racing in circles…being more efficient, lighter, faster, develop better battery tech etc etc etc.

As a example, mercedes’ firmula 1 engine is considered the most efficient internal conbustion engine ever created. They are more than 50% thermally efficient. You can google why that's such a feat and why it matters. Nothing on the road even comes close to it. But that would never have been achieved without competition. And that eventually filters down into the compact family hatch you start in your garage in the morning, the battery that gets put into your cellphone and laptop.

thats also just one example. It can be applied to absolutely anything. So to make this pist relevant to this thread…bicycles developed specifically because of stupid races like the EPIC. There are a few aren't there..one even shares the name.
 

Anyway. You are allowed to feel the way you do i guess, but thanks for the ‘cancel’ regardless????

Agreed, competition in it's basic form is what made society progress. 

Without it, we probably wouldn't have had cars, or worst, we'd still have gallon guzzling Buicks polluting the air at an even greater rate.

 

Edited September 9, 2021 by stefmeister

[TheoG]

14 hours ago, MORNE said:

Pretoria

LEW/LIW (Littleton Engineering Works) to be more specific.  Had some memorable time there .... .

[MORNE]

10 hours ago, DieselnDust said:

Ah lekker.  I was thinking the only time I recall kids on site was when my department secretary brought her nephew and his chum along to the office. They wanted to see some pictures of the machines in action for a school oral project so I let them peruse the Janes Aviation Books and Janes Fighting Ships. They'd be about 29/30 years old by now. Hopefully they pursued careers in Engineering

no way they'd be allowed anywhere near the exciting stuff at that facility though. I Showed them around the prototyping workshop and metrology lab. Generally kids were not allowed on site (too much HE around) but we did have those family days in December. I'll bet they had a great time telling their pals about the huge mock up in the Composites Building

Yea in hindsight I should become an engineer instead haha. So interesting. Yea if I recall correctly...this was a "design" office. each of the ooms had a office/studio/ drawing board. There were about 6-8 guys in the specific part we were in. we were never in a manufacturing part of anything. We were shown prototype models and stuff though. I remember being mesmerised by all the awesomeness. 

[ACE Cycles]

On 9/7/2021 at 11:10 PM, DonatelloOnPinarello said:

Serious question. 

I don't want to get into the merits of whether or not the epic is overpriced. It is, grossly so. Most stage races are, and the epic is the top of the crop. but it is also under normal circumstances completely oversubscribed, so there definitely is a market. 

But this week a couple of entries have popped up in the classifieds and it just got me wondering again.

So to those who actually pay for their entries, do you think it's justifiable, and why/how? 

 

(Full disclosure, I have done it twice, and it's a very special experience, but unless I am offered a free ride, there is no way I would do it again. Also, it's your money, spend it how you please, just interested in why the epic is still overbooked, even at upwards of R120k per team)

When you compare it even to international events, like the Transalp, which I will be doing next year for a third time with my own money, and am happy to pay for, it just gets absurd. Transalp entry, which includes all the logistics etc, race villages, catering and all that, is like R20 000.00pp if you include the basic accomdostion package. (Dorm rooms, school boarding houses etc).

 

We arrange our own bnb accomodation as soon as the route is announced, and shared by a group of 4, all in, with flights, accomodation and a few extra days in Lake Como or Trieste  afterwards, its still half the price of just the basic entry fee for epic.

Even the Swiss Epic, which is organized by the same company, is significantly cheaper, even though it's all luxury accomodation in Switzerland throughout the whole event.

 

So for the epic regulars, what keeps you going back?

 

For first timers, what made you choose the epic? Considering other options available?

 

 

So is it overpriced or oversubscribed? It can't be both ????

[Dirt De Vil]

I try to enjoy at least one stage race per year and the main driver was to experience trails that I cannot easily get to. I did not  repeat an event and the epic was on the list and had a good portion of savings accumulated for it.  We immigrated to CPT beginning 2018 and i completed J2C that year. And that was the last one simply because one can ride amazing trails across the Western Cape at your leisure from your front door. Used the savings for weekend getaways with the family across the province.

That said, I will do the W2W switchback due to the awesome trails purposely built for the event.

Edited September 9, 2021 by Dirt De Vil

[DieselnDust]

2 hours ago, stefmeister said:

Agreed, competition in it's basic form is what made society progress. 

Without it, we probably wouldn't have had cars, or worst, we'd still have gallon guzzling Buicks polluting the air at an even greater rate.

 

without competition we'd still be swimming in the sea

[DieselnDust]

2 hours ago, TheoG said:

LEW/LIW (Littleton Engineering Works) to be more specific.  Had some memorable time there .... .

Indeed, awesome products coming out of that facility. I was on the V-LAP team way back then. 

[Shebeen]

18 hours ago, MORNE said:

the construction industry accounts for 40% of the worlds co2 emmisions.

 

not even close.

[TheoG]

9 minutes ago, DieselnDust said:

Indeed, awesome products coming out of that facility. I was on the V-LAP team way back then. 

I was on rapid fire cannons, 20 - 30mm.  Later became Vektor together with the hand guns and auto rifles.

[Jay F]

19 hours ago, Mountain Bru said:

So basically the epic is useful as a war. That's all I just heard

And almost as expensive 

[Mountain Bru]

16 hours ago, MORNE said:

Dont want to drag this on any further. We’ll agree to disagree and no hard feelings, i still like you????

 Yes sure. All i meant to say was you cant complain about how crap  something is because it being stupid in your opinion and then be a hypocrite and still draw the benifits of said crap thing everyday you turn on you computer, start your car, etc etc etc. Youd quite literally have to go live in a grass hut off the grid somewhere in animal skin…but then you’ll need a tool one day and make one..and the cycle starts again.

My list is not exhaustive  because id literally have to list everything you touch in a day. Even a bicycle.

I maintain, My initial argument was about the benefits of having something like motorsport as a think tank for ideas and concepts. Thats why manufacturers do it…for R&D, not to make lewis hamilton more famous.

Yes, i can agree that racing around in circles can be considered stupid, if you look at it in isolation. But doing something creates a need to be better at it, beat the competition. Beating the compition means getting creative with HOW you go about racing in circles…being more efficient, lighter, faster, develop better battery tech etc etc etc.

As a example, mercedes’ firmula 1 engine is considered the most efficient internal conbustion engine ever created. They are more than 50% thermally efficient. You can google why that's such a feat and why it matters. Nothing on the road even comes close to it. But that would never have been achieved without competition. And that eventually filters down into the compact family hatch you start in your garage in the morning, the battery that gets put into your cellphone and laptop.

thats also just one example. It can be applied to absolutely anything. So to make this pist relevant to this thread…bicycles developed specifically because of stupid races like the EPIC. There are a few aren't there..one even shares the name.
 

Anyway. You are allowed to feel the way you do i guess, but thanks for the ‘cancel’ regardless????

Not to drag this out more, but the big factor in the R&D discussion that hasn't been mentioned (I don't think) is that cutting edge R&D is craaaaaaazy expensive. Like stupid expensive. Like a gold plated S-Works being sold by a 1 poster on the classifieds expensive.... For every finished product we see, they've made loads and loads of prototypes, failed 100s of experiments and spent 1000s of engineering hours. And typically the R&D engineers at an F1 team or wherever will be among the top experts in their field globally, so will be getting paid top dollar for those hours. 

And someone has to pay for those development costs, someone has to fund the failed attempts to improve each component - none of which have any return on investment. The ROI calculation on Mercedes developing the technology for a fancy new super efficient engine is never ever going to balance if they want to recoup those costs by putting them in the new C class and waiting for enough cars to sell. They'd have to triple or quadruple the price of every car. So instead they fund their R&D through motorsport with sponsor money and by selling a "team" or a driver to fans rather than an engine to consumers. 

Anyway, my 2c. I don't watch any racing other than bike racing and don't follow any of these things, but I'm so grateful that F1 exists, delusional billionaires have aimless space races, Samsung and iPhone have crazed fanboys that will pay stupid prices for a new phone every time it launches even though they have a perfect phone in their pocket, etc etc etc. Because of all of these those wonderful loons, I have a better car, a better phone, and most importantly - a better bike. 

A super over priced bike race in the Cape benefits me nothing though. I'm not sure if there's any trickle down technology from the Epic to the local Trailseeker. 

[Shebeen]

2 hours ago, ACE Cycles said:

So is it overpriced or oversubscribed? It can't be both ????

That would be the case in an efficient market. It is definitely oversubscribed, so in theory they could hike the price even further and still sell out. Therefore the price is too low "economically speaking". When people sell entries off,  then why don't they go for a higher price?

Something is worth what people are prepared to pay for it. A lot of the value of an epic entry is intangible things like presitge, hype and satisfaction. Many people capable and keen to do the Epic don't enter because they don't place the same value on these intangible things - for them the event is overpriced.  

I have been in this Epic pricing debate for as long as I can remember. I will admit to saying they were cooking their golden goose when it kept getting cranked up. They can charge what they want and bloody well done to Kevin for doing the homework, taking the risk, getting it off the ground and keeping it so successful. I would be devastated if the whole thing took a few big steps backward due to the whole covid scenario which is obviously not their doing. 

[Shebeen]

1 minute ago, Mountain Bru said:

A super over priced bike race in the Cape benefits me nothing though. I'm not sure if there's any trickle down technology from the Epic to the local Trailseeker. 

look they don't build as much trails as i think they should, but it's undeniable how large the knock on effects for the local bike and tourism industries are.

 

https://www.news24.com/sport/othersport/cycling/uci-mountain-bike-wc-to-boost-the-capes-economy-20180227

Quote

Cape Town - Cycling events in the Cape already boost the economy to the tune of more than R1 billion per annum, and 2018 sees an inaugural race taking place in Stellenbosch, the UCI World Cup series is kicking off the season there for the first time.

These events collectively attract thousands of local and international competitors and their supporters, who often spend extended stays in the destination, so it's imperative that big sporting events continue, albeit with renewed focus on saving water.