Random Morning in the South

[ChrisH]

48 minutes ago, Shebeen said:

my water cooler conversations continue to revolve around cars hating cyclists.  Act XLVII will not continue, with cars winning and no chance of ceasefire

Don't forget the conclusion that I'm not entitled to an opinion because I still use Facebook. It's pure Ludditeism.

[eala]

21 hours ago, LazyTrailRider said:

I'm both a semi-roadie and a trail rider (and have been all the other types except cyclocross over the years).

I love riding on the road, the way you can smoothly put watts down is something you don't get on even the best flow trails, and definitely not while pinning it through the gnar in full #enduro mode.

But here's the thing: I never do group rides on the road, because I can't handle how roadies in general behave. When I'm caught by a bunch or manage to catch up to one in traffic, I purposefully change my pace to avoid them because I don't want to be part of anti-social behaviour.

I can count on one hand the number of groups I've encountered who don't ride several abreast (always quoting that silly "it's safer to pass a short wide cycling group than a long single-file one" story) and who stop at all traffic lights and stop signs. I can't tell you how many times I've been stationary at a traffic light and seen motorists shake their heads at riders who think they have the right to skip lights because at that point they're in "pedestrian mode", only to switch to "now I have full vehicle rights" again 100m later. It's beyond ridiculous.

You know what's amazing? That more road cyclists aren't killed more regularly. On an average 90min weekend morning ride in the Southern Peninsula, my Varia registers more than 300 vehicles passing me. Those are silly odds.

Same here .I ride alone on the road for all above reasons and i ride alone on trails because groups 'kuier ' on their bikes and don't watch their wheel .Too many times people get hurt in group social riding .I would rather ride with a couple of others or alone 

Edited February 7 by eala

[PregoRoll]

I see a common denominator in this thread.....Roadies!

Get a Mountain Bike and you will become immune to these issues 😆

[Sandro]

I can't believe anyone can even try and defend this. It doesn't matter if drivers of other vehicles take chances and behave like tools because they have 1 500 kg of metal plus around them to protect them. As cyclists we can't afford to take these chances. The law clearly states ride in single file, it doesn't matter how much space we think should be logically assigned to us on the road FFS. 

[reteid]

I have learned that the only way for me to enjoy my hobby(cycling) is to rather be a a living dog than a dead lion.

[LazyTrailRider]

2 hours ago, Sandro said:

I can't believe anyone can even try and defend this. It doesn't matter if drivers of other vehicles take chances and behave like tools because they have 1 500 kg of metal plus around them to protect them. As cyclists we can't afford to take these chances. The law clearly states ride in single file, it doesn't matter how much space we think should be logically assigned to us on the road FFS. 

No matter how many times you say this, there are several people in this thread (and many, many on the roads) who fundamentally, in principle, to the core of their existence, believe that they have just as much right to use our roads in the same way motorised vehicles do, but with few extra privileges like skipping traffic lights. Some of them are otherwise very intelligent people, incredibly, but they'll fight you to the ends of the earth on this.

Me? I'm pragmatic. Principles are worth zero when you're dead.

It's one of those "it is what it is" things...

[mazambaan]

My Zim 2c on this topic; please guys and girls on the road; hold your line. I got a skrik in CT when in a car, approaching a small group of riders from behind, reasonably well wide, one turned to look over their shoulders when I was about 10m away, inadvertently moving towards the car and I really thought I was going to clip them. I do know of a sad fatality back in the day from something similar and a truck.

Be safe out there.

[Pure Savage]

Feel should do a facebook post with photos of cars passing single file cyclists within 1m, photos of every car breaking the 20km/h speed limit on Chappies. Then ask drivers why they trying to murder people.

[Nick]

25 minutes ago, Pure Savage said:

Feel should do a facebook post with photos of cars passing single file cyclists within 1m, photos of every car breaking the 20km/h speed limit on Chappies. Then ask drivers why they trying to murder people.

In the same way that is is custom to bully more vulnerable road users, it is also custom to neglect certain rules of the road, as if optional.

For example, just ask a motorist to respect the speed limit. Many will tell you to go do something vulgar to yourself. It is THEIR prerogative how fast they drive! Just try driving the speed limit in the fast lane, I dare you! It's the same reaction you'd get if you were a group of cyclists.

On this topic, my favourite car related question. Why are cars not speed restricted to the speed limit like ebikes? Why does the driver get to decide? It's pretty clear by the elaborate systems we've set up to catch speeders that we aren't fit to make this decision ourselves.

[The Ouzo]

3 minutes ago, Nick said:

In the same way that is is custom to bully more vulnerable road users, it is also custom to neglect certain rules of the road as if optional.

For example, just ask a motorist to respect the speed limit. Many will tell you to go do something vulgar to yourself. It is THEIR prerogative how fast they drive! Just try driving the speed limit in the fast lane, I dare you!

On this topic, my favourite car related question. Why are cars not speed restricted to the speed limit like ebikes? 

In certain countries, as well as with certain manufacturers, there are speed limit restrictions in place on their cars.

Whilst at Volvo the uproar that we had to deal with when they restricted all their vehicle to 180 was just stupid. 

If I'm not mistaken India has a max speed restriction on their cars, I know some of them that we source from India are restricted to 150 even though they are capable of going faster.

 

Restricting to the speed limit of the road you're on could be dangerous though.

 

I actually had a bit of an argument with a shopper on our floor a few weeks back, he was complaining about the small motors in our cars and how its so unsafe because you cant overtake 2 or 3 trucks at the same time, I asked him why he was in such a hurry, he should just slow down and be a bit more patient, he did not like that at all.

[Nick]

9 minutes ago, The Ouzo said:

Restricting to the speed limit of the road you're on could be dangerous though.

Would it really? Then why have a speed limit at all?

It's only because we've become normalised to the behaviours of breaking the speed limit that it would become dangerous to suddenly strictly enforce it.

[Mamil]

30 minutes ago, Pure Savage said:

Feel should do a facebook post with photos of cars passing single file cyclists within 1m, photos of every car breaking the 20km/h speed limit on Chappies. Then ask drivers why they trying to murder people.

This - yes.

Rant follows

My view on this topic is that the car is a telling symbol of the everyman of late stage capitalist humanity - the individualist, sealed off from his environment and out of touch with its elements, untold power available at the slightest of gestures, the vanity of the styling of the machine and it's capabilities experienced as an extension of narcissistic aggrandisement and entitlement - belching toxic gases into the world as it releases the energy of sunlight captured by trees of prehistoric ages .... And in a superb twist of irony, these mobile monuments to an imagined special status, sit daily in a snarl of smog and frustration in traffic jams - all those rugged individualists dreaming of the open road, 300kilowatt engines idling wastefully, while I ride past on my 30k alu checkpoint --- and that's just the queue to get into the Cape point reserve on Saturday morning.

Sure okes - bikes and riders are the problem on the roads - don't ride 2 abreast or even 3, because here comes everyman in a 2.5 meter wide suit of armour, an empty passenger seat alongside him - single filing his way to climate Armageddon as fast as he can.

More bikes - fewer cars - 2 wheels good, 4 wheels bad. Viva the revolution of the pedals

Rant over.

 

[Shebeen]

1 hour ago, Pure Savage said:

Feel should do a facebook post with photos of cars passing single file cyclists within 1m, photos of every car breaking the 20km/h speed limit on Chappies. Then ask drivers why they trying to murder people.

The whattabouttery on this post is strong.

If cyclists really think it is an us vs them situation, then cyclists have lost.

[ChrisH]

The point of my original Facebook post appears to have been lost on a lot of people.

In summary then...

We know that some drivers drive their cars like idiots. We can't change their behaviour no matter how often and how loudly we point a finger at them. We just can't.

The reality is that cyclists have it in their power to minimise the risk presented by rogue car drivers by actively riding in a defensive and sensible manner. Riding 5 or 6 abreast on a road that is known to be a killing field for cyclists is not, by any stretch of the whataboutist's imagination, doing the sensible thing. All you are doing is making the target 5 or 6 times bigger.

If we want to reduce cycling fatalities, we have to pack our cycling egos away and look within the cycling community to do it ourselves. In South Africa it's not going to happen by enforcing laws, we are too far down the road of lawlessness to achieve that.

[splat]

Riding 2, 3, 4, 5 or 6 abreast is annoying AF for the motorist. I get that.
But its not those riders who are being mowed down. So, its not their safety that is really at risk.

It would be interesting to take all the car vs cyclists collisions and analyse them for fault.
Both my wife and I have been knocked off our bikes in a similar fashion to Pure Savage. Riding on our own with lights on the left of the road etc. The drivers all said that they 'Just didn't see us ! '

When you go for a ride, you say goodbye to your spouse as you jump on your bike and they say 'be careful out there'. You try and do most of the right things, but you rely heavily on all other road users to do their part by looking where they are going etc.
Ask the guy that had 1/2 his leg ripped off by that drunk driver a few weeks ago.

Perhaps riding like a tjop means that car have a better chance of seeing you.
Its not the right thing to do. but...

[Nick]

Something like? Be seen and it'll likely solve some of the two abreast tendencies.