Stages Power Meters lay off entire workforce

[_David_]

Ripping off your customers / making a profit.

From google: A business should make all the money it can using every tool at its disposal within a framework of ethics and morality. That's the profit motive. The profit motive is good when it operates within moralistic boundaries. Take away those boundaries and the profit motive becomes greed.

Edited April 24, 2024 by _David_

[The Ouzo]

8 minutes ago, _David_ said:

Ripping off your customers / making a profit.

From google: A business should make all the money it can using every tool at its disposal within a framework of ethics and morality. That's the profit motive. The profit motive is good when it operates within moralistic boundaries. Take away those boundaries and the profit motive becomes greed.

a blury line defined by more blury lines

[Underachiever]

1 hour ago, The Ouzo said:

a bottle of wine @ R200 is deemed rubbish, sell that same bottle for R2000 rand and all of a sudden its a brilliant wine and desirability increases.

John Wayne's sister is rubbish. 

For an East Rander, R200 a bottle is serious stuff.

[_David_]

2 minutes ago, The Ouzo said:

a blury line defined by more blury lines

But I am sure most people here get the gist of it.

[Irvin85]

39 minutes ago, PregoRoll said:

alrighty then. 

Much of the love and joy we get out of watching events, participating in events and seeing our heros dropping watts comes directly from Manufacturers efforts in the industry. Be it from revenue gain and reinvestment into the sport (Have a look at what Spez does for disadvantaged riders around the world) or from partnerships with other brands and event managers. 

This is often funded from profits of sales and extra campaigns from unused marketing budgets. 

If we would all like to go back to 2004 when there was barely any televised racing, Sponsored athletes and "good faith initiatives" then we can. Then you can have that super cheap bike with the fancy brand on the side. But that is not where we are. 

 

Sure, manufacturers could drop some margin, I don't doubt that. But at what cost to the general industry and all those that benefit off of the brands reputation and reach? 

My other main point regarding Support. We know how important a good Support Team is for a brand. We see major brands with infinite budgets unable to fulfill basic requests. Should they be visited with pitchforks because their prices are high but service is trash? No. You all keep purchasing their products. So why would they do anything to improve it? 

Many, many "High roller" brands offer exceptional support service, Why? Because you bloody paid for it. Warranties arent free and are worked into the manufacturing price. 

 

Thanks, I don't understand our point at all. Just some facts if you did not know this. 

1. Majority of Bicycles is manufactured in Taiwan 

2. Merida(Taiwanese company) manufactures for third parties and is one of the largest bike manufacturers in the world. $2.2B turnover

3. Merida is a 35% shareholder of Specialized and produces their bikes in Taiwan like the majority of bicycles that you might think is done elsewhere. the cost to manufacture these bikes is way less than what you actually believe it costs. 

A sworks frame selling for $6000 probably cost them $500.00 from Merida excl.shipping. lets call it landed cost to the shop at $1000 they work on a markup of 500%. 

If the halved their markup they would still be making a killing and would still be able to finance all the R&D, sponsors and marketing campaigns and still be able to ride their lambos. 

In honesty you will probably see a significant uptick on the sales of the Sworks model and a increase in revenue. 

 

 

[DieselnDust]

57 minutes ago, PregoRoll said:

alrighty then. 

Much of the love and joy we get out of watching events, participating in events and seeing our heros dropping watts comes directly from Manufacturers efforts in the industry. Be it from revenue gain and reinvestment into the sport (Have a look at what Spez does for disadvantaged riders around the world) or from partnerships with other brands and event managers. 

This is often funded from profits of sales and extra campaigns from unused marketing budgets. 

If we would all like to go back to 2004 when there was barely any televised racing, Sponsored athletes and "good faith initiatives" then we can. Then you can have that super cheap bike with the fancy brand on the side. But that is not where we are. 

 

Sure, manufacturers could drop some margin, I don't doubt that. But at what cost to the general industry and all those that benefit off of the brands reputation and reach? 

My other main point regarding Support. We know how important a good Support Team is for a brand. We see major brands with infinite budgets unable to fulfill basic requests. Should they be visited with pitchforks because their prices are high but service is trash? No. You all keep purchasing their products. So why would they do anything to improve it? 

Many, many "High roller" brands offer exceptional support service, Why? Because you bloody paid for it. Warranties arent free and are worked into the manufacturing price. 

 

I think the social benefit aspect of bicycle marketing is the same as green washing. It’s overblown to justify high product pricing. I get it that raw material costs are higher and if anything is responsible for driving carbon bicycle prices upward it high energy prices ; crude, gas, and renewable. 
add taxes and distribution costs plus distribution margins that shave all crept upward as more people in the supply chain cash in on the margins available.

In sa, exchange rate and import tariffs all add up .

everyone’s standard of living has improved over the past 20yrs.

a few things we as cyclists need to get over;

we don’t need a new bike every year

we don’t need n+1 <puts on flame proofs>
we don’t need top of the range bikes with xx1 axs when GX axs works just as nicely and even xo1 mech 

we don’t need a new bib every week

[The Ouzo]

do staff work for free ?

do buildings cost nothing to run ?

is R&D free?

 

quoting material costs is being disingenuous, there are many other costs involved.

 

Are the companies making a tidy profit ? I'm pretty sure they are, but I dont think its as big a profit as everyone thinks.

[ChrisF]

3 hours ago, betaboy said:

I wouldn’t touch TREK!ever.  They dropped the moral ball with the Greg Lemond saga! And acting disgracefully, I personally believe karma is on its way! Plus that brand is linked to the biggest cycling fraud to ever hit our sport! It has zero value in my eyes. Cycling will carry on regardless, hopefully Trekless.

The new challenges ahead is backup and parts, as more riders decide to have a forever bike!

 

Hiehie ....

 

VERY difficult for me to be objective on Trek.

 

I KNOW they have some excellent bikes.

 

I DO support some of their UCI riders.

 

BUT .... that dealer in Paarl screwed me over properly .... and to rub salt in the wounds the 2016 model EX5 really was a dud, at least mine was.

 

[DieselnDust]

38 minutes ago, The Ouzo said:

do staff work for free ?

do buildings cost nothing to run ?

is R&D free?

 

quoting material costs is being disingenuous, there are many other costs involved.

 

Are the companies making a tidy profit ? I'm pretty sure they are, but I dont think its as big a profit as everyone thinks.

Overheads like rental and salaries have not increased dramatically since inflation in the USA and Europe was low. China has seen drastic salary increases off a very low base hence I didn’t include these as driving bicycle retail pricing

[Jewbacca]

@IceCreamMan I'm waiting for your input on another big bicycle industry company going bust despite the predicted growth in the industry..... 😜

[mikkelz]

8 hours ago, _David_ said:

But you can't finish first in Group L at the fun ride world champs on that KTM!

So I think the bicycle is totally worth it. 😜

[ChrisF]

https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/surprise-specialized-sale-slashes-hundreds-of-bikes-and-accessories-by-50/

[Underachiever]

2 hours ago, The Ouzo said:

do staff work for free ?

do buildings cost nothing to run ?

is R&D free?

 

quoting material costs is being disingenuous, there are many other costs involved.

 

Are the companies making a tidy profit ? I'm pretty sure they are, but I dont think its as big a profit as everyone thinks.

There are plenty financial metrics in the business world, that tells you if each expense line items falls inside an acceptable level, and if not, shareholders will call you out.  Part and parcel of running a sustainable business.  So no these expenses are certainly not free. 

Point is, it certainly does not make sense for a push bike to be R250k+, nor does it make sense that a Richard Mille is $100k+

Good luck for you if your manage your business such that you can determine the product asking price based on being desirable. 

We all knew the bike industry was waiting for a sense check...

[IceCreamMan]

1 hour ago, Jewbacca said:

@IceCreamMan I'm waiting for your input on another big bicycle industry company going bust despite the predicted growth in the industry..... 😜

“Big bicycle industry company”. Really? 

Do you remember the Pioneer power meter lot. Stopped production moons ago, long before your theory of doom and gloom. 
 

what we fail to realise is that even in boom times companies fail to stay afloat. For a variety of reasons but mostly due to bad business models and failure to read the market and company and products). Even during the cycling boom chain reaction was making horrific losses and Evans was downsizing. Evans was clever though and saw the market trends early. Ole Mike Ashley is much maligned but an astute  businessman.

despite Stages hitting the wall, folks are still buying 325 grand pinnarello’s and 300 grand Spez bicycles. And manufacturers are still making them. 
 

however, we need to be cognisant of the fact that cycling as we know it is relatively niche, but cycling itself is universal. It will thrive. So buy that dikwiel and cycle on. 

Edited April 24, 2024 by IceCreamMan

[DieselnDust]

So it turns out Stages owes Giant a ton of cash and Giant is sueing Stages to settle the unpaid invoices totalling $13million ish.

Four of Stages top execs have now joined Giant so lets wait for the technology to re-emerge under the Giant brand. Giant already builds the Stages bike computer and all the indoor bikes.

[Irvin85]

14 hours ago, ChrisF said:

https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/surprise-specialized-sale-slashes-hundreds-of-bikes-and-accessories-by-50/

This just proofs the point that we are being severely overcharged if they are able to sell a bike with a 50% discount and still make money.