Cyclists with a "Running" Problem

[shaper]

26 minutes ago, dave303e said:

So who here has successfully guessed their marathon goal straight out of the gate?

It is flippen tough wanting to be too competitive with yourself when you have never done something before. No full or even half marathon on road to use as an estimate. I still haven't run on tar at all this year and I have trained at 1600m and will race at sea level.

The devil on one shoulder says just send it on the day and run on feel. Angel on the other says take it easy and aim for a safe goal.

I have been checking on garmin's race predictor, obviously I would prefer to beat it. But is it a good safe goal to chase and then with 5km to go- just go off like a cut snake and hope you make the line?

If you have trained for a goal time and have been hitting the pace in training then you should achieve.

As for strategy that works for me:

+ First 5kms, I run 5-10s under race pace, don't get carried away with the hype and especially if there are 21km runners in the mix at the start.

+ The when warmed up, relaxed aim to hit race pace until 32km

+ 10kms to go pick up the pace if you can and are feeling ok

+ 5km to go give it all that is left, run on adrenaline, heart and knowing the finish is near and it will be all over.

The last 5kms is all mind games and start breaking the distance down into known distances you run to make it easier to manage, like 3kms to finish would be from my house to a main road.  At the 41km mark, for me that is 3 laps of a track.  Mentally it makes it more manageable.

Using this strategy I generally negatively split and am close or below my goal.

Good luck and enjoy!!

Edit: you can also look at the 10/10/10 method https://www.runnersworld.com/training/a29342955/marathon-training-strategy/

Edited February 26 by shaper

[dave303e]

28 minutes ago, Jewbacca said:

I'm pretty accurate at knowing where I am re marathon time.

Looking at how I feel at 21km at certain speeds.

My very humble advice, go slower than you think is necessary until 32 then smash the last 10km or just get to the end from there depending on how many matches you've burnt.

Positive splits will get you home a lot faster than going out hard and slowing down.

So, go out a few percent slower than you think is 'reasonable'

ya I should probably have tried a 21 at some stage, still never raced on on tar either. Going in a little blind...

24 minutes ago, shaper said:

If you have trained for a goal time and have been hitting the pace in training then you should achieve.

As for strategy that works for me:

+ First 5kms, I run 5-10s under race pace, don't get carried away with the hype and especially if there are 21km runners in the mix at the start.

+ The when warmed up, relaxed aim to hit race pace until 32km

+ 10kms to go pick up the pace if you can and are feeling ok

+ 5km to go give it all that is left, run on adrenaline, heart and knowing the finish is near and it will be all over.

The last 5kms is all mind games and start breaking the distance down into known distances you run to make it easier to manage, like 3kms to finish would be from my house to a main road.  At the 41km mark, for me that is 3 laps of a track.  Mentally it makes it more manageable.

Using this strategy I generally negatively split and am close or below my goal.

Good luck and enjoy!!

Edit: you can also look at the 10/10/10 method https://www.runnersworld.com/training/a29342955/marathon-training-strategy/

10/10/10 makes sense, much like Jewbacca's suggestion, hold, hold, hold, 10km time trial mode.

Think I might go rogue on the weekend and push a 21 to gauge pace a bit better as well. 

[Shebeen]

56 minutes ago, shaper said:

If you have trained for a goal time and have been hitting the pace in training then you should achieve.

As for strategy that works for me:

+ First 5kms, I run 5-10s under race pace, don't get carried away with the hype and especially if there are 21km runners in the mix at the start.

+ The when warmed up, relaxed aim to hit race pace until 32km

+ 10kms to go pick up the pace if you can and are feeling ok

+ 5km to go give it all that is left, run on adrenaline, heart and knowing the finish is near and it will be all over.

The last 5kms is all mind games and start breaking the distance down into known distances you run to make it easier to manage, like 3kms to finish would be from my house to a main road.  At the 41km mark, for me that is 3 laps of a track.  Mentally it makes it more manageable.

Using this strategy I generally negatively split and am close or below my goal.

Good luck and enjoy!!

Edit: you can also look at the 10/10/10 method https://www.runnersworld.com/training/a29342955/marathon-training-strategy/

10/10/10? does anyone do anything in miles in this country?

call me silly, but I'd rather break it into 4 quarters, you're bound to have a half marathon marker

[shaper]

39 minutes ago, Shebeen said:

10/10/10? does anyone do anything in miles in this country?

call me silly, but I'd rather break it into 4 quarters, you're bound to have a half marathon marker

Article is runners world where half the world runs in miles, so principle is the same you can just do 16/16/10 if you need metric. It is a strategy to consider, and rather pedantic to nit pick???

And most runners pushing for a goal time will break it down into 5km splits as well as what they go through halfway at.

 

Edited February 26 by shaper

[milky4130]

7 hours ago, dave303e said:

So who here has successfully guessed their marathon goal straight out of the gate?

It is flippen tough wanting to be too competitive with yourself when you have never done something before. No full or even half marathon on road to use as an estimate. I still haven't run on tar at all this year and I have trained at 1600m and will race at sea level.

The devil on one shoulder says just send it on the day and run on feel. Angel on the other says take it easy and aim for a safe goal.

I have been checking on garmin's race predictor, obviously I would prefer to beat it. But is it a good safe goal to chase and then with 5km to go- just go off like a cut snake and hope you make the line?

Me at last years Cape Town Marathon, also my first. I too am very competitive. Actually had a goal of +-4:35min/km (Garmin Predictor), which obviously went out the window the moment the gun went off. There was no strategy of negative or positive splits. I ran one pace from start to end. All the stars lined up on the day, woke up before my alarm went off, didnt get stuck in traffic, found parking easily, no queues which allowed me 2 x visits to the portaloo's before the start, nutrition was on point and that is the only thing I did according to strategy, a gel every 6km's which happens to also be the gels I picked up as I was walking through registration the day before and decided to try something new on race day, so much for that theory. So use Garmin Predictor for the pacing up until 10kms to go then go all in. Or like I did just ignore the numbers and run on feel on the day.

[dave303e]

14 hours ago, Shebeen said:

10/10/10? does anyone do anything in miles in this country?

call me silly, but I'd rather break it into 4 quarters, you're bound to have a half marathon marker

all 100mile trail races are based around miles, usually a waterpoint every 10miles ±16km so it actually works for me haha

[IceCreamMan]

Let’s talk head torches. What do the ultra folks use for over night runs?

 

main concern is comfort and longevity of the battery. 

[Shebeen]

12 minutes ago, IceCreamMan said:

Let’s talk head torches. What do the ultra folks use for over night runs?

 

main concern is comfort and longevity of the battery. 

tradeoffs tradeoffs tradeoffs.

they are all good these days (well the brand name ones, not the energiser and cheaper knock offs, but you knew that already) - also disregard this advertorial which might come up on your websearch - lumeo will not do the business, batteries degrade very quickly https://top5headlamps.co.za/compare/

I would go for something with single use batteries, li-ion is much better but the hassle of recharging is not worth it in my books.

I actually have two of these, and would consider using them for an ultra

very easy to use, smart directional beam, super comfy and lightweight with batteries on back of head a big bonus.

at this price just get one and if it doesn't work for you then it's for camping

https://www.decathlon.co.za/trail-running-equipment/8826-3292-onnight-210-trail-running-head-torch-100-lumens-blue.html

the one did not survive a biblical storm when it was strapped to my bike helmet, but it was a lot of water.

[Shebeen]

5 hours ago, dave303e said:

all 100mile trail races are based around miles, usually a waterpoint every 10miles ±16km so it actually works for me haha

[dave303e]

I have just retired a Led lensor SEO7r after 5 years of racing. It has done 3 expedition races, a hundred miler and about 20 24-36hour AR's. I would highly recommend, what was nice is that it has a rechargeable battery that you can take out and put AAA's in the place. So day to day you are not killing the environment churning through AAA's but when you need to just change on the move you can revert to AAA's. The lamp is actually still in perfect shape, the strap is just totally kaput.

I have no ultra's other than comrades on the to do list this year, so the mrs got me a NEO1R from led lensor. It is not great for more than 3 hours on full brightness. but as a day to day running headlamp it is brilliant, light, comfortable and just enough light to run. Unfortunately the battery life is not ready for a full night of running and you can't just change battery.

 

An alternative and actually a really good one- use your bicycle headlight. I have a head strap for my Ryder Orion 800, long cable puts the battery in the top of the back pack. On it's lowest setting you get major run time and better lumens than most headlamps on mid/low settings.

[dave303e]

12 minutes ago, Shebeen said:

was just pointing out 100 milers, there are quite a few in this country, so in running terms there are things done in 'freedom units" in the SA running scene.

[Craai]

12 minutes ago, Shebeen said:

Except that NASA uses the metric system for Apollo missions...

[shaper]

23 minutes ago, dave303e said:

was just pointing out 100 milers, there are quite a few in this country, so in running terms there are things done in 'freedom units" in the SA running scene.

Pretty much the majority of the UK races are in imperial as are road distances.  Sending man to the moon might be standardized in metric, but local running races or driving to the next village/town is in miles and not kms

[Jewbacca]

1 hour ago, IceCreamMan said:

Let’s talk head torches. What do the ultra folks use for over night runs?

 

main concern is comfort and longevity of the battery. 

Ok, so one thing people won't talk about is temperature vs battery use. If you're out in the cold and the battery pack is on your head, you will burn through batteries QUICKLY

So, for me, having a torch with a battery pack I can store close to my body to keep it warm is non negotiable.

I own two, a Black Diamond Ikon 700 which has many many settings and options for batteries, it is weather proof and the AA batteries last nights not hours when managed properly

https://www.blackdiamondequipment.com/en_US/product/icon-700-headlamp/

I then also have a Silva Trail Runner Free which has numerous battery options as well. It is lighter and smaller and very comfortable, but not as hardy as the BD Ikon.

https://silvaafrica.com/collections/lighting/products/trail-runner-free-2-ultra

A headtorch for me is not something i feel I want to 'get away with using', so I am happy to spend money on it.

 

[tjommies3]

My marathon didn't go well yesterday. I am now convinced that I'm not ready to try my luck at Comrades. It's not easy doing a flyer in the first half and then crawling the rest of the way. I was so relaxed, so full of energy, so motivated. I even had a warmup session with Gerda Steyn, I guess that a number of things contributed to my body saying enough is enough and with that, I'm waiting for the substitution window to open. I'm gonna continue trying to strengthen my body and stick to half marathons for now. Amazingly, all the pain I felt yesterday had nothing to with my ITB injury. Anyway, that's my story.

[Shebeen]

7 hours ago, tjommies3 said:

My marathon didn't go well yesterday. I am now convinced that I'm not ready to try my luck at Comrades. It's not easy doing a flyer in the first half and then crawling the rest of the way. I was so relaxed, so full of energy, so motivated. I even had a warmup session with Gerda Steyn, I guess that a number of things contributed to my body saying enough is enough and with that, I'm waiting for the substitution window to open. I'm gonna continue trying to strengthen my body and stick to half marathons for now. Amazingly, all the pain I felt yesterday had nothing to with my ITB injury. Anyway, that's my story.

Maybe warming up with SA record holder might be the problem?

not sure what stage you pulled out/developed pains, but maybe chat to some of the old salts at your club, you might find you're just at a bit of a speedbump.