Cyclists with a "Running" Problem

[milky4130]

Started this running journey officially only +-2,5 years ago because I wanted to do triathlons and eventually an Ironman.

when i entered running races on its own I did pretty well, first big running race was Safari Half 2023, Absa RYC 10km 2023, CTM 2023, Two Oceans 2024 and now Comrades Marathon, goal achieved with a Silver Medal, nearly missed it because Polly Shorts is brutal after 80kms and walked plenty of it,so I had to run a negative split for the last 6.7kms 🤯

[DJuice]

2 minutes ago, milky4130 said:

Started this running journey officially only +-2,5 years ago because I wanted to do triathlons and eventually an Ironman.

when i entered running races on its own I did pretty well, first big running race was Safari Half 2023, Absa RYC 10km 2023, CTM 2023, Two Oceans 2024 and now Comrades Marathon, goal achieved with a Silver Medal, nearly missed it because Polly Shorts is brutal after 80kms and walked plenty of it,so I had to run a negative split for the last 6.7kms 🤯

Congrats!

You are a machine!!!

 

[mecheng89]

So, the dust has settled mostly on another Comrades Ultra. 

I hate to be the one to bring it up, but is Gerda really clean? Her total domination makes me doubt it. Second, third and fourth placed ladies looked like they've been through a war, whereas she looked somewhat more fresh.

Can we judge any superb athletic performance now without a hint of cynicism (spelling)? Perhaps my fear will never be justified and she has performed 100% under her own natural steam. 

[mecheng89]

41 minutes ago, milky4130 said:

Started this running journey officially only +-2,5 years ago because I wanted to do triathlons and eventually an Ironman.

when i entered running races on its own I did pretty well, first big running race was Safari Half 2023, Absa RYC 10km 2023, CTM 2023, Two Oceans 2024 and now Comrades Marathon, goal achieved with a Silver Medal, nearly missed it because Polly Shorts is brutal after 80kms and walked plenty of it,so I had to run a negative split for the last 6.7kms 🤯

A silver at Comrades is as good as it gets for a working amateur. It really indicates total dedication, congrats sir. I trust your family are very proud as well.

[Heina13]

52 minutes ago, milky4130 said:

Started this running journey officially only +-2,5 years ago because I wanted to do triathlons and eventually an Ironman.

when i entered running races on its own I did pretty well, first big running race was Safari Half 2023, Absa RYC 10km 2023, CTM 2023, Two Oceans 2024 and now Comrades Marathon, goal achieved with a Silver Medal, nearly missed it because Polly Shorts is brutal after 80kms and walked plenty of it,so I had to run a negative split for the last 6.7kms 🤯

Unbelievable!

 

Doing Ironman , Oceans and Comrades in one year is a true achievement! I wouldnt have been able to IM after a full Oceans or even thought about doing Comrades! Especially with the conditions we got at PE. Getting a silver on top of that, really something special! 

[Vetplant]

16 minutes ago, mecheng89 said:

So, the dust has settled mostly on another Comrades Ultra. 

I hate to be the one to bring it up, but is Gerda really clean? Her total domination makes me doubt it. Second, third and fourth placed ladies looked like they've been through a war, whereas she looked somewhat more fresh.

Can we judge any superb athletic performance now without a hint of cynicism (spelling)? Perhaps my fear will never be justified and she has performed 100% under her own natural steam. 

I see a trend in your comments. May I ask: Any specific event that ticked you off regarding doping?

The Positive tests in professional sports have not spiked recently as far as I am aware?

I still say, the "also rans" have a higher probability of doping compared to the elite winner, IMHO. The Amateur that "suddenly" gets a Bill Rowan, after not being able to make cut-off three years running...hmmm

 

Edited June 10 by Vetplant

[mecheng89]

41 minutes ago, Vetplant said:

I see a trend in your comments. May I ask: Any specific event that ticked you off regarding doping?

The Positive tests in professional sports have not spiked recently as far as I am aware?

I still say, the "also rans" have a higher probability of doping compared to the elite winner, IMHO. The Amateur that "suddenly" gets a Bill Rowan, after not being able to make cut-off three years running...hmmm

 

I've always been suspicious, no matter the event, no matter the time of year, no athlete in particular all the time.

Well, Kenya just suspended a bunch of athletes, and CHINADA also nailed a few swimmers, so there's that.

https://therunningchannel.com/26-kenyan-runners-receive-doping-suspensions/

https://www.wada-ama.org/en/news/wada-statement-case-23-swimmers-china

[Vetplant]

20 minutes ago, mecheng89 said:

I've always been suspicious, no matter the event, no matter the time of year, no athlete in particular all the time.

Well, Kenya just suspended a bunch of athletes, and CHINADA also nailed a few swimmers, so there's that.

https://therunningchannel.com/26-kenyan-runners-receive-doping-suspensions/

https://www.wada-ama.org/en/news/wada-statement-case-23-swimmers-china

Cool, understood. I don't know if I'd be able to enjoy any sport at all.

How I deal with it:
(Not saying this is what anyone else "should" do)

Either
-they are all relatively clean, competing on similar levels, running VERY close to the legal limits that is detectable. (Which means it is a fair fight)

Or

-they are all juiced to the hills, but they have found a way to mask it so that they don't get caught out. (which means it is a fair fight)

 

I think it is highly unlikely that everyone else is clean, and just the guy that wins the race is juiced to the hills. The reputational and livelihood risk is just too high for me to see Gerda, Tadej (or anyone else) risking it all for a single payday.

[ChrisF]

3 hours ago, mecheng89 said:

So, the dust has settled mostly on another Comrades Ultra. 

I hate to be the one to bring it up, but is Gerda really clean? Her total domination makes me doubt it. Second, third and fourth placed ladies looked like they've been through a war, whereas she looked somewhat more fresh.

Can we judge any superb athletic performance now without a hint of cynicism (spelling)? Perhaps my fear will never be justified and she has performed 100% under her own natural steam. 

 

Different approach to the same dilema ....

 

How often are these podium level athletes tested ?

 

Once you are in the spot light as often as Gerda .... surely she must be tested "more than most" ?

 

 

Which brings us back to @Vetplant .... either way, it should be a level playing field for all the top athletes.

[b-rad]

I think the doping situation in Kenya, Ethiopia etc is somewhat different to other situations. The cases are often down to athletes trusting everything their coaches , combined with perhaps a lack of education, and a desperate attempt amongst hundreds of other faster more gifted athletes, to improve, and hopefully be able to earn some money to provide for family. 

I’m pretty sure Gerda is tested pretty often, perhaps someone with closer knowledge can confirm? She is training a lot in the alps in Europe so I’m wondering how the doping tests are conducted and who conducts them?

Edited June 10 by b-rad

[b-rad]

A big congrats to everyone who took part🍻 whether you lined up, finished, or achieved a PB. 
It’s been 5 years since the last up run and certainly I think many of us were reminded it’s a tough day out. People seemed to be setting off at a wild pace to be honest. And it was a big matter of holding back, and holding back some more. Something that so many ignored completely and paid for it later on.

My only real hill training I did was at Oceans as most running has been in the flats of Netherlands and other parts of Europe so the hills were something to overcome. Felt decent mostly until top of Inchanga. From there just couldn’t or didn’t want to take gel or drink mix. Started struggling somewhat and had to dig deep to maintain the pace. Didn’t quite get the main goal of bettering the 2023 time but happy to have got in under 7hrs. 
Back to down in 2025 we go 🙂

[mecheng89]

13 hours ago, b-rad said:

A big congrats to everyone who took part🍻 whether you lined up, finished, or achieved a PB. 
It’s been 5 years since the last up run and certainly I think many of us were reminded it’s a tough day out. People seemed to be setting off at a wild pace to be honest. And it was a big matter of holding back, and holding back some more. Something that so many ignored completely and paid for it later on.

My only real hill training I did was at Oceans as most running has been in the flats of Netherlands and other parts of Europe so the hills were something to overcome. Felt decent mostly until top of Inchanga. From there just couldn’t or didn’t want to take gel or drink mix. Started struggling somewhat and had to dig deep to maintain the pace. Didn’t quite get the main goal of bettering the 2023 time but happy to have got in under 7hrs. 
Back to down in 2025 we go 🙂

Sub-7? That's low level flying..

[mecheng89]

13 hours ago, b-rad said:

I think the doping situation in Kenya, Ethiopia etc is somewhat different to other situations. The cases are often down to athletes trusting everything their coaches , combined with perhaps a lack of education, and a desperate attempt amongst hundreds of other faster more gifted athletes, to improve, and hopefully be able to earn some money to provide for family. 

I’m pretty sure Gerda is tested pretty often, perhaps someone with closer knowledge can confirm? She is training a lot in the alps in Europe so I’m wondering how the doping tests are conducted and who conducts them?

From my understanding, she is a registered athete with World Athletics, which means she is subject to dope testing. Usually, the athlete has to give a whereabouts notice, no matter where they go or for how long. Tests are always at random. I presume the testing will be conducted by WADA and not SAIDS if she's out of the country.

Well, the more you win the more you get tested 🤣. But we all are aware of the dodging tactics the athletes and their staff employ to anticipate testing, and can configure their doping around that. Many athletes have been reprimanded in the past for dodging testing, leading tot suspensions.

The one thing that, in my opinion, counts in Gerda's favour, is that she claims to be self-coached. So there's no apparent outside influence to corrupt her. 

[Jewbacca]

2 hours ago, mecheng89 said:

From my understanding, she is a registered athete with World Athletics, which means she is subject to dope testing. Usually, the athlete has to give a whereabouts notice, no matter where they go or for how long. Tests are always at random. I presume the testing will be conducted by WADA and not SAIDS if she's out of the country.

Well, the more you win the more you get tested 🤣. But we all are aware of the dodging tactics the athletes and their staff employ to anticipate testing, and can configure their doping around that. Many athletes have been reprimanded in the past for dodging testing, leading tot suspensions.

The one thing that, in my opinion, counts in Gerda's favour, is that she claims to be self-coached. So there's no apparent outside influence to corrupt her. 

Her best result in an international race of 'high regard' is 7th.

While she is breaking records in South Africa at various levels, she has not set the world on fire outside of our borders.

Also be aware that Ultras are not a huge focus for 'most' top distance runners and Comrades and 2 Oceans seem 'huge' but in fairness the field is pretty limited at the front of the race. 

Big fish, small pond 

I'm not disputing her absolute dominance in SA or taking away from her achievements, but on a global scale and going into the olympics she is an outside change medalist at best. 

While her dominance here is likely garnering some sideways glances, the top marathon runners and the officials monitoring the top marathon runners are likely not hugely concerned at this stage.

I for one didn't even consider her to be doping until reading this but firmly believe all the top cyclists to be dirty in some way.

Strange how differently all of us view the same thing.

[Danger Dassie]

Afaik  'masking' is largely no longer practical because testing has improved to the extent that these are more easily identified. Masking is/was predominantly outside of competition as that's where doping is focussed. 

Outside of that, I enjoyed following the event and various mates who were taking part. Glad that the event seems to have moved past the issues from last year, Ann Ashworth is no doubt a solid contributor to the organisation. 
Race wise I feel like the second-placed lady, Carla Molinaro, is a really under rated part of the racing conversation. Really impressive conversation. 

[mecheng89]

1 minute ago, Danger Dassie said:

Afaik  'masking' is largely no longer practical because testing has improved to the extent that these are more easily identified. Masking is/was predominantly outside of competition as that's where doping is focussed. 

Outside of that, I enjoyed following the event and various mates who were taking part. Glad that the event seems to have moved past the issues from last year, Ann Ashworth is no doubt a solid contributor to the organisation. 
Race wise I feel like the second-placed lady, Carla Molinaro, is a really under rated part of the racing conversation. Really impressive conversation. 

She wasn't second, I think she came fourth. 

https://results.finishtime.co.za/myresults.aspx?uid=35-30204-1-708330 - 2nd place

https://results.finishtime.co.za/myresults.aspx?uid=35-30204-1-698987 - 4th place