Advice on Divorce

[Shebeen]

My ex did not have a formal job as she was raising our kids and looking after the house.

 

For her this meant

 

1. I feed , dressed our kids and took them to school everyday

2. I did their homework and projects

3. I did all the weekend activities with our kids

4. I was the primary (only breadwinner)

5. I did most of the food shopping

 

For her part

1. Fetched kids from school (5kms round trip)

2. Maid did all cooking and cleaning

3. Gardener did the garden

4. Watched soapies most of the day

5. Drank too much at night

6 Wasted money on stupid stuff 

 

 

None of my business really, but why did you accept that-

it seems like you were a bit of a pushover?

If you don't want to reply, I totally understand.

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

[emoji848]

 

"Male traits"...can you clarify that?

Aggressiveness / antagonism (less empathy / less kindness / lower co-operability) / Risk-seeking / physical to name a few. 

 

I guess women can only be effective in a work place if they become like men? 

 

I started with a reply and then I stopped - way too much sexist rubbish in one post for me to handle 

It's not sexist, male and female humans in general have traits which are largely similar. However, there are differences in how those traits are presented / favoured in males vs females. 

 

For example, males are generally less agreeable (or more confrontational) than females. Females are generally more conscientous than males. Males are generally less risk averse than females. Males are generally more physical (stronger) than females. 

 

That's not to say that SOME females are more confrontational than SOME males etc, but those are the outliers, and if we were to take the average, men are far more confrontational than females. The same (or inverse) can be said of all the other traits that we humans posess. 

 

In life, these traits result in an overall personality and life experience, which may lead some to be more successful in certain areas than others. Ignoring this, when discussing things like the gender pay gap (which is there due to a multitude of factors, not just sex / gender) or the prevalence of men in armed services or fire brigades and STEM fields is disingenuous and misses the overall point - that men and women are different, and these differences should be celebrated, not vilified, or flat-out ignored as some extreme leftist groups want to. 

 

It's also not to say that women would be better in the workforce if they were more like men (cos, again, differences need to be celebrated and identified for the different benefits that they bring to teh table) but we also need to consider that if some women were more confrontational (willing to ASK for a raise / promotion / overtime etc) then there may be a shift in how often women were overlooked for pay raises / promotions etc. 

 

But, having said the above, it's also a very difficult idea and concept to discuss, because as soon as someone brings it up, or wants to discuss the hard points or bring in some nuance or context, they get shot down with cries of sexism and mansplaining etc (like that internal study memo by that guy at Google, which was 100% correct but shot down cos OMG sexist AF how could he say we're different I'm #triggered!)

 

It NEEDS to be discussed. The lack of women in STEM fields (and many others) is worrying, due to the difference in how men and women (in general) approach things differently, and how those differences in approach could benefit us all. 

 

EDIT: Not sure I agree totally with Cogito's post entirely (I think it's far more complex than that) but there is room for discussion and learning around these matters & concepts (on all sides / in general / whatever)

 

 

#offtopic and a VERY interesting field / concept / study, and this is a good place to start. 

 

https://fee.org/articles/jordan-b-peterson-isnt-criticizing-women-when-he-discusses-agreeableness/

 

https://www.personneltoday.com/hr/jordan-peterson-gender-pay-gap-exist/

 

Edited January 31, 2019 by Captain Fatbastard Mayhem

[Escapee..]

My ex did not have a formal job as she was raising our kids and looking after the house.

 

For her this meant

 

1. I feed , dressed our kids and took them to school everyday

2. I did their homework and projects

3. I did all the weekend activities with our kids

4. I was the primary (only breadwinner)

5. I did most of the food shopping

 

For her part

1. Fetched kids from school (5kms round trip)

2. Maid did all cooking and cleaning

3. Gardener did the garden

4. Watched soapies most of the day

5. Drank too much at night

6 Wasted money on stupid stuff 

 

On the below chart, where does she fit?

 

 

[Uni]

I think you are very close to the point. My view is that women are expected to adopt male traits and characteristics in the workplace to be dominant in certain management roles and work (non-personal) interactions.

 

Then they go home, and still have the same male traits and character and it does not sit well within a personal relationship/interaction.

 

Then the personal relationship breaks down

 

There are female and male traits and roles and characteristics for a reason - to supplement one another

oi mate. You're gonna need a spade. 

Start digging. 

[Skubarra]

 

It's not sexist, male and female humans in general have traits which are largely similar. However, there are differences in how those traits are presented / favoured in males vs females. 

 

 

 

What I find sexist is the idea that women in general will struggle to play different roles at work and in their personal relationships. Most women I know are quite capable to adapt. I would be very surprised if that is a common reason for divorce.

[I FLY]

None of my business really, but why did you accept that-

it seems like you were a bit of a pushover?

If you don't want to reply, I totally understand.

I was unhappy

I discussed my unhappiness with my wife

Situation got progressively worse

I tolerated it for more than 10 years as I wanted to spare my kids the turmoil of a divorce until they finished school.

One day a friend's parents got divorced and he was devasted (he was 45 years old). This made me realise that no matter when I got divorced my kids would be hurt and that delaying it was affecting me.  

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

What I find sexist is the idea that women in general will struggle to play different roles at work and in their personal relationships. Most women I know are quite capable to adapt. I would be very surprised if that is a common reason for divorce.

Yeah, same can be said for men. There are certain jobs / posts / tasks for which the vast majority of men are less likely to fill, due to the general traits that men posess. 

 

I'm not saying that they'll struggle to adapt, nor do I think "struggle" is the right term; just that it's not as simple as saying there's no such thing as male / female roles, nor is the term "male role" or "female role" entirely accurate. I'd prefer to say "roles for which females are generally more pre-disposed towards than males" and vice versa, and even then it only caters towards the general population, not the outliers, and doesn't allow for personal responsibility in a relationship, where tasks / chores etc should be equally split. 

 

I personally think that the current thinking of "there are no differences between men and women" is a dangerous slope, and does injustice to both men and women alike. 

[Gen]

Aggressiveness / antagonism (less empathy / less kindness / lower co-operability) / Risk-seeking / physical to name a few.

 

 

Seems I was born with male traits then.[emoji6]. I actually think he is confusing traits and skills (not male skills, just skills) .. it is why I asked for clarity...

 

I have absolutely zero uderstanding how being capable and sucsessful in a career can be negative on a relationship..

 

 

Unless you are someone that's stuck in 1950 or part of some weird cult.

Edited January 31, 2019 by Gen

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

Seems I was born with male traits then.[emoji6]. I actually think he is confusing traits and skills (not male skills, just skills) .. it is why I asked for clarity...

 

I have absolutely zero uderstanding how being capable and sucsessful in a career can be negative on a relationship..

 

 

Unless you are someone that's stuck in 1950 or part of some weird cult.

It shouldn't be, but then I don't care if my other half* makes more than me. But, I think it must be said that if it DOES have a negative impact on a relationship, that the 2 people were not compatible to begin with.

 

*hypothetical and / or previous

[Gen]

It shouldn't be, but then I don't care if my other half* makes more than me. But, I think it must be said that if it DOES have a negative impact on a relationship, that the 2 people were not compatible to begin with.

 

*hypothetical and / or previous

For sure.

[Hairy]

my situation as per below in the adjusted font (Recon I need to hold onto wife #1) 

I trust you find this amusing given my history of dark humour.

 

1. I She feeds , dresses our kids and takes them to school everyday

2.  I She works with their homework and projects

3. I did We do all the weekend activities with our kids

4. I was the primary (only breadwinner)

5.  I She does most of the food shopping

 

For her part

1. Fetched kids from school (5kms round trip)

2. Maid She does did all cooking and cleaning

3. She does Gardener did the garden

4. Watched soapies most of the day

5. Would be nice is she drank a little more at night, "if you know what I mean" Drank too much at night

6 Wasted Won't let me waste money on stupid stuff 

 

 

My ex did not have a formal job as she was raising our kids and looking after the house.

 

For her this meant

 

1. I feed , dressed our kids and took them to school everyday

2. I did their homework and projects

3. I did all the weekend activities with our kids

4. I was the primary (only breadwinner)

5. I did most of the food shopping

 

For her part

1. Fetched kids from school (5kms round trip)

2. Maid did all cooking and cleaning

3. Gardener did the garden

4. Watched soapies most of the day

5. Drank too much at night

6 Wasted money on stupid stuff 

[Skubarra]

It shouldn't be, but then I don't care if my other half* makes more than me. But, I think it must be said that if it DOES have a negative impact on a relationship, that the 2 people were not compatible to begin with.

 

*hypothetical and / or previous

 

Agree - I think often "2 people were not compatible to begin with" gets conveniently blamed on "woman's role in society is changing"

[Stretch]

Staying clear of this discussion.....

[Cheese]

my situation as per below in the adjusted font (Recon I need to hold onto wife #1) 

 

I trust you find this amusing given my history of dark humour.

 

1. I She feeds , dresses our kids and takes them to school everyday

2.  I She works with their homework and projects

3. I did We do all the weekend activities with our kids

4. I was the primary (only breadwinner)

5.  I She does most of the food shopping

 

For her part

1. Fetched kids from school (5kms round trip)

2. Maid She does did all cooking and cleaning

3. She does Gardener did the garden

4. Watched soapies most of the day

5. Would be nice is she drank a little more at night, "if you know what I mean" Drank too much at night

6 Wasted Won't let me waste money on stupid stuff 

I must admit at the first time I saw the thread I could not understand why someone would ask such advice on the Hub.

I have not followed it but today I saw the post count and came to check it out.

 

I then saw I might be married to the same woman as Hairy, but then I saw point nr 5 under her part.

 

My wife enjoy her wine in the evening , no wonder I could not understand the thread. 

[Hairy]

personally I appreciate what I read here by those who are and have gone through the process and it helps me understand in a small way what they are going through

 

so a learning experience.

 

 

I must admit at the first time I saw the thread I could not understand why someone would ask such advice on the Hub.

I have not followed it but today I saw the post count and came to check it out.

 

I then saw I might be married to the same woman as Hairy, but then I saw point nr 5 under her part.

 

My wife enjoy her wine in the evening , no wonder I could not understand the thread. 

[Stretch]

I must admit at the first time I saw the thread I could not understand why someone would ask such advice on the Hub.

I have not followed it but today I saw the post count and came to check it out.

 

I then saw I might be married to the same woman as Hairy, but then I saw point nr 5 under her part.

 

My wife enjoy her wine in the evening , no wonder I could not understand the thread.

It's good to keep yourself and your relationship in check hearing stories from total strangers.