All things Team Qhubeka NextHash

[SwissVan]

Team Q have had good TV coverage, especially on the English Euro Sport channel were the various commentators would always mention them... Sponsors appreciate that kind free of coverage that comes without having to have podium results.

Problem is its only with the English speaking world and in Europe its more beneficial to have continental European (German, French, Spanish, Italian..etc...) contacts, and of course roots in Europe.

Location, location, location...

 

IMO they gave it a good go, and can be extremely proud of what they achieved!

 

[Fred van Vlaanderen]

Making a proper hash of things…

https://inrng.com/2022/01/qhubeka-nexthash-loose-ends/#more-40099

[Fred van Vlaanderen]

8 hours ago, J Wakefield said:

This isnt to do with results and yes for sure NextHash were questionable from the start. They dont even have a website for starters but many years ago Lafevre signed a deal on a napkin in restaurant that turned out to be a scam also so this is not new in any type of environment like this but I suppose desperate times calls for desperate measures. 

Couldn’t agree more. Doug was in a tough spot for a couple of years in terms of funding. Increases the chance of this happening. Contribution was admirable, but mistaken. 

[J Wakefield]

22 hours ago, OVERDRIVE said:

J, having read everything please share your thoughts. Think your insight into what happened would be cool to hear/read. If you have a free sec? 

I was not directly involved with the team. Had a short dealing if you call it that with DR back in 2018 personally which made me understand the choice I made at the time was the right one going to UAE. 

I have nothing to say about how they got to this point, but I do feel for the remaining staff and riders who have not been able to get further employment to date. I have had some reach out looking for rides or jobs and its heart breaking in some ways. 

Edited January 21, 2022 by J Wakefield

[DieselnDust]

Reading between the lines of all the articles and comments it  appears that its a classic case of not knowing when you're out of your depth and getting in the right help to steer the ship. Going it alone is admirable but there are just so many case studies in management courses that reveal failures of this nature. Its So common, one wonders if students actually learn anything from the coursework or is it just the passmark that's of concern? For Team Dimension Data for Qhebeka, by 2018 the rot was already deep and the team was walking down the ladder. Even Riis walked away. That alone was telling to me even If I don't have the right details, it was a loud shout that this is not worth the effort.

[OVERDRIVE]

15 hours ago, Fred van Vlaanderen said:

Making a proper hash of things…

https://inrng.com/2022/01/qhubeka-nexthash-loose-ends/#more-40099

Moer. It keeps getting worse 

[Shebeen]

https://cyclingtips.com/2022/01/qa-doug-ryder-on-team-qhubekas-closure-its-legacy-and-its-future/

 

Also reading between the lines here, the honeymoon wasn't forever results were needed.

Ben O'Connor is probably a good point, he performed after he left... Maybe the team were most missing a few things and it clicked elsewhere?

DR doesn't seem to like that answer, if he can't figure that out then I don't see long term sponsor commitment in the future, unfortunately.

 

Also, no word on RjvR?

[OVERDRIVE]

3 hours ago, Shebeen said:

https://cyclingtips.com/2022/01/qa-doug-ryder-on-team-qhubekas-closure-its-legacy-and-its-future/

 

Also reading between the lines here, the honeymoon wasn't forever results were needed.

Ben O'Connor is probably a good point, he performed after he left... Maybe the team were most missing a few things and it clicked elsewhere?

DR doesn't seem to like that answer, if he can't figure that out then I don't see long term sponsor commitment in the future, unfortunately.

 

Also, no word on RjvR?

Nic is safe though... DR: Yes. I mean, most of them can, but we will only retain Nicholas Dlamini, he will be a mentor. He’s come through the Continental team and got a ride into the WorldTour team, so he’s gone through all those steps. So we will retain him as that. But he’ll be the only one – it is around budget, there’s really nothing more to do with it than that. 

[eala]

9 hours ago, OVERDRIVE said:

Nic is safe though... DR: Yes. I mean, most of them can, but we will only retain Nicholas Dlamini, he will be a mentor. He’s come through the Continental team and got a ride into the WorldTour team, so he’s gone through all those steps. So we will retain him as that. But he’ll be the only one – it is around budget, there’s really nothing more to do with it than that. 

Why do people keep on drumming  the African drum when there is no sound ???

[tubed]

54 minutes ago, eala said:

Why do people keep on drumming  the African drum when there is no sound ???

Exactly - the pro road cycling market is an efficient one with more supply than demand.

The best riders got picked up and the rest have largely found their places where their value determines they should be.

Saffas are a visa nightmare - that counts against them - so they will always need to fight that bit harder than the Euros, maybe its the same for those from S America, where there is equally as much talent trying to get through the door.

We need to get over the fact that our past entitles us to a leg up, the Euro market dropped that idea some years ago.

Riding double laps of the sunny peninsula every day at this time of the year is not reality if you hope to race in Europe.  

[Jewbacca]

6 minutes ago, tubed said:

Exactly - the pro road cycling market is an efficient one with more supply than demand.

The best riders got picked up and the rest have largely found their places where their value determines they should be.

Saffas are a visa nightmare - that counts against them - so they will always need to fight that bit harder than the Euros, maybe its the same for those from S America, where there is equally as much talent trying to get through the door.

We need to get over the fact that our past entitles us to a leg up, the Euro market dropped that idea some years ago.

Riding double laps of the sunny peninsula every day at this time of the year is not reality if you hope to race in Europe.  

I think it also just comes back to the fact that in SA we don't have the racing structures to keep creating top quality, race ready riders. 

99% of our top road cyclists would get pantsed in a mid week Belgian race by a father of 3 working 2 jobs. 

This alone means that while talent/numbers etc may be exceptional, any team still needs to invest time into our riders as they are mostly  not 'race ready' at a top level.

There is also 'small pond' syndrome, which often stunts development and leads to malcontent. When you're so used to being the top dog in a small yard and suddenly you're fighting for scraps and struggling to get a ride, never mind a result, the mind starts taking strain. It doesn't matter how openly humble you are, the sub conscious still has an effect.

We don't have crits, CX, our XCO scene is badly subscribed to and our road scene is ded. Our stage and marathon MTB fetish caters for adults who have already missed the boat.

While there are always exceptions to the rule, it is significantly more difficult to compete against those who grew up racing in a competitive field 

[DieselnDust]

2 hours ago, Jewbacca said:

I think it also just comes back to the fact that in SA we don't have the racing structures to keep creating top quality, race ready riders. 

99% of our top road cyclists would get pantsed in a mid week Belgian race by a mother of 3 working 2 jobs. 

This alone means that while talent/numbers etc may be exceptional, any team still needs to invest time into our riders as they are mostly  not 'race ready' at a top level.

There is also 'small pond' syndrome, which often stunts development and leads to malcontent. When you're so used to being the top dog in a small yard and suddenly you're fighting for scraps and struggling to get a ride, never mind a result, the mind starts taking strain. It doesn't matter how openly humble you are, the sub conscious still has an effect.

We don't have crits, CX, our XCO scene is badly subscribed to and our road scene is ded. Our stage and marathon MTB fetish caters for adults who have already missed the boat.

While there are always exceptions to the rule, it is significantly more difficult to compete against those who grew up racing in a competitive field 

there fixed it for you

Everything else is nailed on the head

[Shebeen]

On 1/26/2022 at 8:17 AM, tubed said:

Exactly - the pro road cycling market is an efficient one with more supply than demand.

The best riders got picked up and the rest have largely found their places where their value determines they should be.

Saffas are a visa nightmare - that counts against them - so they will always need to fight that bit harder than the Euros, maybe its the same for those from S America, where there is equally as much talent trying to get through the door.

We need to get over the fact that our past entitles us to a leg up, the Euro market dropped that idea some years ago.

Riding double laps of the sunny peninsula every day at this time of the year is not reality if you hope to race in Europe.  

Heard from people within the team that it is even harder for the Eritreans on the squad, racing schedule gets totally curtailed by trying to get around europe legally.

I wonder why there haven't been more elite cyclists of colour from european colonies?

Kevin Reza was a lone figure but has now retired, he cut a solitary path until MTNQ came along. You'd think there'd be enough talent in holland, belgium and france for there to be enough opportunities. The racial makeup of their football teams is very different to the cyclists, but wasn't like that just a generation ago.

Here is the French team from Mexico 1986

The squad they won the tournament in Russia 2018 had 14 players who could have played for another country through heritage, even if they'd been born and bred in France (two of them had siblings who did).

 

Maybe the next cycling team to break down barriers shouldn't be talent scouting in the dusty roads of east africa, but rather the poor suburbs of Paris, Antwerp and Rotterdam.

 

[Dirt Tracker]

On 1/25/2022 at 6:04 PM, Shebeen said:

https://cyclingtips.com/2022/01/qa-doug-ryder-on-team-qhubekas-closure-its-legacy-and-its-future/

Alot of words there but really not saying anything. I think that has been a problem as well. There hasn't been anything substantive from or by management for such a long time. The more the cracks appeared the more everything was painted in the same quotes of 'Ubuntu' and 'togetherness'. There never seemed to be much openness. 

The various snippets from ex riders that have come out have never really painted a good picture and Haas calling it 'chaos' and Cav'... well say what you like bout him he produced some of their best results and seems now can barely brining himself to speak DR's name. 

It's a shame, sad for all involved as they did get some good results in 2021 but it all kind of went under the radar by then. I do hope they can come back, there is a lot they have done bringing African riders to the fore and there is alot of talent in the continent and very few structures to to support development. 

At the end it was a darn shame but the writing on the wall was there in the end it all seemed mired by bad luck, bad judgement despite the best intentions. 

[Andymann]

When I read about how tough it is for a South African cyclist to make it in Europe it seems like we are too protected here - big fish in small ponds.

DR has done the team thing and let's be honest it didn't really open up a bunch of paths for South Africans to get over to Europe.

Maybe he needs to bring everything he has learnt from running a team in Europe and set up an Academy here in SA where he can prepare riders for what it takes to make it as a pro.  Somewhere remote where the riders are away from home, have to cook, clean and fend for themselves and basically live in conditions similar to those they will experience in Europe.  If you read Jens Voigt's book both he and Jan Ulrich were part of a Academy where they were identified from very young.

It's great that he supported Malawi, Eritrea and Rwanda but I bet there are a whole bunch of Nic Dlamini's right under our noses here in SA.  MAybe we need to be a bit selfish and develop our guys first.

I suppose not having races in SA is a challenge and funding is always going to be an issue but I suspect there might be more interest setting up an Academy in SA from SA companies than sponsoring a cycling team based in Europe with very little African ties.

[eala]

I think just like corporations are tired and gatvol of BEE so it is in sport .They vote with their feet