Hunting - yes or no?

[Chris_]

I do buy meat from shops - I'm just mentioning that it is very hard to control how the animal was killed when you do. Not taking any moral high ground here... I hunt and I buy meat from shops. In a perfect world I would love to know that every animal I consume has been killed quickly and without pain - but that's next to impossible.

 

I think I know where you're coming from. I also understand that religion is a terrible rabbit hole to fall down into on the Hub, but I wish we could unpack it - it is a very big part of how we view all creatures including ourselves, and what 'role' they play in the world. So I fear many points will be raised without a solid debate following.

[Sepia]

Trophy hunters take the best possible animal!

How does this not weaken the species?

Genetics.

[Grease_Monkey]

I think I know where you're coming from. I also understand that religion is a terrible rabbit hole to fall down into on the Hub, but I wish we could unpack it - it is a very big part of how we view all creatures including ourselves, and what 'role' they play in the world. So I fear many points will be raised without a solid debate following.

It is unfortunately a big rabbit hole to go down, and like you said it plays a huge role in how we view ourselves as humans and our role on the planet. I'd be happy to unpack that (in my own opinion of course), but don't think this thread is the right place to do it.

 

Anyway, I'm not cool with animal cruelty. But will be the first to admit I do not check where all the meat I buy comes from.

[leeubok]

Sport-hunting where one kills a defenseless beast in an unsporting manner to make yourself feel good is reprehensible to me.

 

But if you go and kill a lion with a spear and mount it on your wall, then you get massive respect from me.

 

But shot at 100's of metres with a high-powered rifle? yeah.. well done you, you manly man... your actions speak louder than your words in my view.

 

Do you want sport? give the animal a chance you manly man cowardly coward

 

and before you ask 'do you eat meat?', let me say yes, I do. Do I know how that meat gets to me? Yes, I do, and I accept full responsibility for that, which is why I choose the most ethical option, and yes, I know that's a grey area - but the 'killing for pleasure' is morally bankrupt, again, in my view.

Ok, did you read my first post? After you've read it, do you think hunting contributes to conservation or not?

[Patchelicious]

Arguments can be constructed to support hunting as an industry.

 

BUT that doesn't speak to the people themselves who get boners from killing animals. 

Edited October 18, 2018 by Patchelicious

[Odinson]

Way too much jibber-jabber and off-topic here. Keep on topic, people. 

 

Q: Hunting essential for conservation - yes or no? 

[leeubok]

Arguments can be constructed to support hunting as an industry.

 

BUT that doesn't speak to the people themselves who get boners from killing animals. 

So you're putting all hunters under the same umbrella? They're all douchebags? 

So why is what you like right, but what other people like wrong? You (and all of us here on the hub) get boners from riding bikes, but some motorists loath cyclists and hate the sport of cycling. Who's right?

And if you say but ja cycling doesn't kill defenseless animals, then I'll argue that you eat meat right..? 

[Mousea]

We are talking about Hunting, the gratuitous killing of animals.

 

Every animal species needs to eat, even humans, so something has to die for us to eat. At least the cows and sheep are killed humanely.

 

Shooting an animal for sport is not humane. Very little hunts take place for the purpose of eating. They take place for sport or gees or whatever you want to call it. The food part is just a by product of their fun weekend away.

You have obviously never been to a "Slagpaal"

There is NOTHING humane with the way those animal are lined up and slaughtered whatsoever.

[leeubok]

Way too much jibber-jabber and off-topic here. Keep on topic, people. 

 

Q: Hunting essential for conservation - yes or no? 

 

YES. Thanks mr chair for bringing the meeting to order. LOL

[Skubarra]

Ok, did you read my first post? After you've read it, do you think hunting contributes to conservation or not?

 

So if we can come up with better ways to contribute to conservation would you support the banning of hunting?

[deanbean]

I farm, wool sheep and beef cattle. There is space in the system for blesbuck, which I introduced, and springbok, which my neighbors have introduced. That's 2 species that have been reintroduced into an area where they have been absent for many years.

I've got friends that have done the same, but with buffalo, eland, kudu and sable. These animals would have not been stocked without the hunter to give them value.

I also have game that were always present on our farms, but my management protects these animals, and I guard them against poachers. My reason is 2fold. 1. I love seeing them around, and hearing them, last night i was woken by 2 bushbuck rams barking outside my house, that is so awesome. 2. I dont hunt bushbuck and duiker,because they are the food for caracal that would otherwise eat my sheep, a long with Bush pigs.

Mountain Reedbuck are also multiplying hugely now that I protect them. I do hunt them, but only 1 or 2 animals annually, on order, because they breed faster if the population is under predation pressure.

Blesbuck I have to hunt every year, otherwise they get too many. I invite a few friends around, and we walk and stalk. Every shot has to be a head shot, otherwise they won't be invited back.

NEVER hunt from a vehicle, its unethical. All the people I know who hunt only hunt for the meat. I wont say no to trophy hunters either. We use the meat too. But if they wound an animal, they won't be invited back. If you wound an animal you HAVE to find it, that entails a lot of walking. I won't let that go.

[Patchelicious]

So you're putting all hunters under the same umbrella? They're all douchebags? 

So why is what you like right, but what other people like wrong? You (and all of us here on the hub) get boners from riding bikes, but some motorists loath cyclists and hate the sport of cycling. Who's right?

And if you say but ja cycling doesn't kill defenseless animals, then I'll argue that you eat meat right..? 

Pump your brakes and don't put words in my mouth.

 

I never said that I was right, you will also note that I dont tell you what you should and shouldn't do. 

 

I however retain my right to call people who enjoy killing animals for the sake of killing animals whatever I like.

[Underachiever]

I cannot understand the thrill or enjoyment of inflicting pain on another living creature.

 

The debate is getting tense - so trying to find some humour in this.

 

We are all cyclists right - inflicting pain onto you buddy is what we do. What a thrill.  That's how Vets roll anyway. 

 

Perhaps they are more gently in the other groups, but I don't think so.

 

Let me go back eating my kudu biltong....

[Chris_]

I think sport hunting whether its for you to take photos with or to take home as cheap biltong is disgusting. Sport should not involve death. 

 

Hunting to cull - I have long battled with. I grew up around game reserves and career farmers so I've always been of a single-sided belief. The problem I have is that game reserves/farms are man made constructs. So when the numbers of elephants begin crushing ALL the trees get out of hand, we blame over population and cut down the numbers of ellies. Or when x buck, or whatever gets out of hand, we trim the numbers. Humans made this design, is it not our fault for the poor balance? 

 

The problem is I love animals, love the outdoors, love seeing them underwater or running around in the most natural habitat possible. So while there may be a legitimate reason for conservation culling, I'd rather like to see it avoided.

[Escapee..]

I farm, wool sheep and beef cattle. There is space in the system for blesbuck, which I introduced, and springbok, which my neighbors have introduced. That's 2 species that have been reintroduced into an area where they have been absent for many years.

I've got friends that have done the same, but with buffalo, eland, kudu and sable. These animals would have not been stocked without the hunter to give them value.

I also have game that were always present on our farms, but my management protects these animals, and I guard them against poachers. My reason is 2fold. 1. I love seeing them around, and hearing them, last night i was woken by 2 bushbuck rams barking outside my house, that is so awesome. 2. I dont hunt bushbuck and duiker,because they are the food for caracal that would otherwise eat my sheep, a long with Bush pigs.

Mountain Reedbuck are also multiplying hugely now that I protect them. I do hunt them, but only 1 or 2 animals annually, on order, because they breed faster if the population is under predation pressure.

Blesbuck I have to hunt every year, otherwise they get too many. I invite a few friends around, and we walk and stalk. Every shot has to be a head shot, otherwise they won't be invited back.

NEVER hunt from a vehicle, its unethical. All the people I know who hunt only hunt for the meat. I wont say no to trophy hunters either. We use the meat too. But if they wound an animal, they won't be invited back. If you wound an animal you HAVE to find it, that entails a lot of walking. I won't let that go.

 

 

[fanievb]

Why? At the end of the day that trophy hunter directly pays for the continued existence of biodiversity on that farm 

 

 

maybe I should have put it differently

 

I only shoot what I'll eat (so I don't shoot blesbok, because I don't like it)

 

I'll never shoot for trophy only.

 

I'll never shoot duiker, steenbok, bushbuck

 

I think shooting cats for fun is ***, same goes for elephant, hippo etc.

 

problem animals is a different story (jackal, baboon etc.)

 

culling is also a different story when it comes to bigger animals, I understand that property can only carry so much animal per square km