sirmoun10goat Posted June 30, 2020 Share actually it is the brand that sues. Company lawyers don;t act in isolation, they act at the behest of the CEo or the Board of Directors. The upper level management make a decision that determines how the lawyers approach trademark infringement. Still not the brand that is suing - it is the management team. So because they make poor decisions, that does not make Specialized bikes inferior, or people who ride their bikes should not be judged on the bikes they ride. The engineers who are employed to design bikes for Specialized do their best to design a bike that gives an edge over competitors, the marketing team uses the brand awareness to create interest in the product, a sales team a will set a target price, etc. These people do their best to ensure a quality and product and experience. Painting everyone in the organization with the same brush is unfair on these people. The poor experience people have with the concept stores speaks more to the quality of the people who own the franchises than it does of the brand. Riaan H 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jewbacca Posted June 30, 2020 Share Still not the brand that is suing - it is the management team. So because they make poor decisions, that does not make Specialized bikes inferior, or people who ride their bikes should not be judged on the bikes they ride. The engineers who are employed to design bikes for Specialized do their best to design a bike that gives an edge over competitors, the marketing team uses the brand awareness to create interest in the product, a sales team a will set a target price, etc. These people do their best to ensure a quality and product and experience. Painting everyone in the organization with the same brush is unfair on these people. The poor experience people have with the concept stores speaks more to the quality of the people who own the franchises than it does of the brand.It taints the brand however you paint it. No one said the bikes were rubbish, just that the perception of the brand due to various reasons doesn't sit well with some people. The 'brand' is mostly perception. The 'brand' is the social awareness and the marketability of a product or company. Individualising everything doesn't change the image of the 'brand', no matter how good their bikes are. Public Image does not care who is to blame. It paints all under that umbrella with the same brush, no matter how fair or unfair Wayne pudding Mol and DieselnDust 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patchelicious Posted June 30, 2020 Share It taints the brand however you paint it. No one said the bikes were rubbish, just that the perception of the brand due to various reasons doesn't sit well with some people. The 'brand' is mostly perception. The 'brand' is the social awareness and the marketability of a product or company. Individualising everything doesn't change the image of the 'brand', no matter how good their bikes are. Public Image does not care who is to blame. It paints all under that umbrella with the same brush, no matter how fair or unfairAgreed, but that still isn’t really the point. People don’t hate on Spez riders for what Spez has done in court, in the same way that people don’t hate on BMW driver for what BMW did in WW2. There is a perception that douches drive BMWs, true or not, and douches ride Spez, true or not. It’s just become cool to hate on certain brands. And frankly speaking it often says more about the mocker than the mockee ???? NotSoBigBen, Nibali, peetwindhoek and 3 others 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jewbacca Posted June 30, 2020 Share Agreed, but that still isn’t really the point. People don’t hate on Spez riders for what Spez has done in court, in the same way that people don’t hate on BMW driver for what BMW did in WW2. There is a perception that douches drive BMWs, true or not, and douches ride Spez, true or not. It’s just become cool to hate on certain brands. And frankly speaking it often says more about the mocker than the mockee I said that in my previous post... Keep up! I have no issue with Spez bikes or riders. But I certainly won't argue that in SA the perception of the brand isn't what it is, regardless of why. Unfortunately for the brand, like BMW/Audi, the image is there and shaking something like that isn't easily done. Patchelicious, Wayne pudding Mol and DieselnDust 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patchelicious Posted June 30, 2020 Share I said that in my previous post... Keep up! I have no issue with Spez bikes or riders. But I certainly won't argue that in SA the perception of the brand isn't what it is, regardless of why. Unfortunately for the brand, like BMW/Audi, the image is there and shaking something like that isn't easily done.If I had a Sworks phone I would be able to keep up! Jewbacca and Wayne pudding Mol 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patchelicious Posted July 1, 2020 Share BaGearA 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwissVan Posted July 1, 2020 Share Possibly it is a cultural thing in SA, certainly not restricted to cycling. Out on a 4x4 trail the very same "attitudes" and snyde comments abound .... and it is NOT restricted to a single brand. In February I was looking for a new bike, Spez was top of the list. Even discussing the option of buying a Spez invoked emotional responses, both for and against. Very few technical comments ... The primary reason I went a different route was that Spez seriously downgraded the model that I was looking at from 2019 tot 2020 spec. IF I could have gotten a 2019 spec in my size I probably would have bought it .... sadly I experienced the "buy whats on the floor" attitude from Spez Tygervalley ... And frankly this is an attitude which is rive through the cycling industry, across most brands. Turns out the ONE shop that took the initiative to order in a bike in my size got my business ... this hours after another shop down the road confirmed that the bike I was looking for was out of stock, without even picking up the phone to check. wow, went on a bit of a tangent there .... LOVE my Spez 2FO shoes. May well buy a Spez bike one day. IF, and only if the price and specification levels makes sense when measured against 2 or 3 of the other well represented brands in SA.I also think it’s cultural, SA people tend to be more open or in your face with stuff like this. Been riding various spaz bikes in switz for many years and have never heard anything remotely close to bashing the brand, except “jokes” from other saffas. Scott is very popular here, and generally the Swiss tend to be more closed or less likely to publicly voice their opinion on a brand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairy Posted July 1, 2020 Share BaGearA and Riaan H 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselnDust Posted July 1, 2020 Share Still not the brand that is suing - it is the management team. So because they make poor decisions, that does not make Specialized bikes inferior, or people who ride their bikes should not be judged on the bikes they ride. The engineers who are employed to design bikes for Specialized do their best to design a bike that gives an edge over competitors, the marketing team uses the brand awareness to create interest in the product, a sales team a will set a target price, etc. These people do their best to ensure a quality and product and experience. Painting everyone in the organization with the same brush is unfair on these people. The poor experience people have with the concept stores speaks more to the quality of the people who own the franchises than it does of the brand. so you're saying the case is brougt by Mr, Acme of Commonbikes holdings and not Comminbikes holdings....Interesting... If Mr Acme is the intellectual property rights holder then I would anticipate he to be the complainant. But in the case of ComminBikes holding the intellectual property rights, Comminbikes will sue, Not Mr Acme. I assume the same holds true for Specialized or any other brand that owns the intellectual property rights Edited July 1, 2020 by DieselnDust Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patchelicious Posted July 1, 2020 Share We all hate the big bad bully corporates, unless they pay our salaries. Hairy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselnDust Posted July 1, 2020 Share Agreed, but that still isn’t really the point. People don’t hate on Spez riders for what Spez has done in court, in the same way that people don’t hate on BMW driver for what BMW did in WW2. There is a perception that douches drive BMWs, true or not, and douches ride Spez, true or not. It’s just become cool to hate on certain brands. And frankly speaking it often says more about the mocker than the mockee well maybe but its not that black or white.People buy into brands for different reasons and perceptions.Conveniencetechnological attributesPricequality Similarly people dislike brands for very different reasons.I know of lekker people who ride Spaz (God forgave them so can I)I know a few absolute plonkers too (most drive fortjunas.... not BMdubs) everyone is different and have different trigger points that push them away from a brand.Using Dieselgate as an example, was cheating at an emissions test so bad when everyone is doing it.take Lance for example, Lots of people like Lance and his doping is kind of a what ever.Other's dislike him because he was a T**T. so th edoping is just an excuse to reinforce the dislike. With Specialized is multiple transgressions. IN SA lots of shops were handled very poorly when Spec came into SA. Some people said, "thats just business!" while others saw it as the extension of a corporate culture that was invading the world and did'nt want to be part of it. hence opt out and not buy.No one really builds a bad bike but the perception of how your brand identifies in a market plays a big role in any market. Hairy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotSoBigBen Posted July 1, 2020 Share well maybe but its not that black or white.People buy into brands for different reasons and perceptions.Conveniencetechnological attributesPricequality Similarly people dislike brands for very different reasons.I know of lekker people who ride Spaz (God forgave them so can I)I know a few absolute plonkers too (most drive fortjunas.... not BMdubs) everyone is different and have different trigger points that push them away from a brand.Using Dieselgate as an example, was cheating at an emissions test so bad when everyone is doing it.take Lance for example, Lots of people like Lance and his doping is kind of a what ever.Other's dislike him because he was a T**T. so th edoping is just an excuse to reinforce the dislike. With Specialized is multiple transgressions. IN SA lots of shops were handled very poorly when Spec came into SA. Some people said, "thats just business!" while others saw it as the extension of a corporate culture that was invading the world and did'nt want to be part of it. hence opt out and not buy.No one really builds a bad bike but the perception of how your brand identifies in a market plays a big role in any market.Can't be that bad a perception cause hell I see a lot of their bikes around... DieselnDust, Patchelicious and Riaan H 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nathrix Posted July 1, 2020 Share Most popular brands at Cape Epic for the last 8 years Yeti did not even make the list...hmmm Can’t wait for the next round of dick handbag swinging...http://www.treadmtb.co.za/bikes-of-the-2019-absa-cape-epic-all-the-stats/ Riaan H 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisF Posted July 1, 2020 Share Most popular brands at Cape Epic for the last 8 years Yeti did not even make the list...hmmm Can’t wait for the next round of dick handbag swinging...http://www.treadmtb.co.za/bikes-of-the-2019-absa-cape-epic-all-the-stats/Any ideas why Giant lost so much support (in SA) over the years ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselnDust Posted July 1, 2020 Share Any ideas why Giant lost so much support (in SA) over the years ?27.5... And it was ground lost in events like the Cape Epic. If you look around there's a hell of a lot of them Also Giant hasn't had an xco race team for the last 5 years so there's that halo that's gone. Win on the race track on Sunday sell on Monday.... That marketing strategy works.Scott picked up popularity when Nino started winning everything Milkman, vanniri, nathrix and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jewbacca Posted July 1, 2020 Share 27.5... And it was ground lost in events like the Cape Epic. If you look around there's a hell of a lot of them Also Giant hasn't had an xco race team for the last 5 years so there's that halo that's gone. Win on the race track on Sunday sell on Monday.... That marketing strategy works.Scott picked up popularity when Nino started winning everythingI was going to say, they seemed to sell more mid range 650b 'trail' bikes. Coupled with the trickle on effect of the seat tube/Top tube defect in the Anthem. One see's a heck of a lot of entry level hard tails too. Giant isn't particularly 'Boutique' nor is it on the top step of XCO's (They do currently have XCM rainbow stripes), so one also needs to look at who is riding Epic. Most guys are pretty well off and will choose to ride a more 'desirable' or less attainable brand than Giant. (Again, perception). I actually think that the 30% plus kind of adds weight to the mockery it gets in SA... Okes on Epics in full kit shouting track etc.... True or not, that's it's curse and those stats kinda suggest why. DieselnDust and ChrisF 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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