WrightJnr Posted June 27, 2020 Share I can buy a brand new KTM 350F, chuck on some CC forks and a Traxx rear shock and still have money for engine upgrades for that price. Break it down and the stock KTM suspension is better than anything on that S-Works or most downhill bikes for that matter. A Motorbike comes with a high performance lightweight motor containing 100's of high precision machined parts so the engineering time there alone is worth more.Not sure what you might have paid for Cone Valves and a Trax but no way you would have change left! And unless you a marshal you not going to be allowed near a MTB race with that thing :-) Unfortunately an old argument trying to compare off-road bike kit to MTB kit. Tires, chains, etc. cost less but then you replacing them twice as fast in my experience. Go do a MTB stage race and unless you cut a sidewall will probably use 1 set of tires (and still use them afterwards), go ride the ROA on your bike and you’ll be going with at least 4 sets of tires... I’ve done both for many years.. And total cost of ownership over a 2 or 3 year period assuming normal wear and tear plus the odd fall over the MTB definitely costs less than half! Doctor bills also substantially less! BigDL, Danger Dassie and peetwindhoek 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spy Posted June 29, 2020 Share jip , neither has Scott launched the new Spark and the new Pyga . But getting back to the bike itself. I'm actually quite underwhelmed by this iteration of the Epic. The dedicated Epic Evo is a nice shift and I guess necessary to try and shift the CEO market.But comparing its numbers to other bikes like the Intense Sniper Trail, Yeti SB100, 2021 Scalpel SE its actually pretty average. Only the Headtube and seat tube angles is giving some okes an orgasm. it pretty middle of the road everywhere and its just a simple single pivot with small bearings in the seattube.leveraging all of SRAMS finest is a continuation of the last model and the SID Ultimate (35mm) on the Evo model is a step forward.Great that EVO is brainless but then why not fit a 3 position rear shock and fork? If its a marathon light trail bike I'd still want it to pedal as efficiently as possible.It's a bit like Specialized has run out of ideas for the formula and are relying on the brand halo to keep customers happy. At the Price point there are so may really good options: Pivot Mach 4SLYeti SB1002021 Scalpel / SEIntense Sniper XC /TrailSanta Cruz Blur the Epic has stiff competition already and Giant haven't launched their new 2021 Anthem yet.... DieselnDust 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riaan H Posted June 29, 2020 Share I don't get all the hate. Toyota charges R1,5m for a Cruiser that really doesn't offer 2020 (more like 2015) tech, and is most often not even driven on the kinda terrain that justifies it's existence, yet people aspire to own one and no one starts a riot. Something like 70% of all Golfs sold in SA are the Gti derivative, why, because buyers want them. Spez updates the most winningest XC bike in existence and most comments are about it's price, which as Tread indicated, isn't even the highest in the category, but no one is ragging Scott. It seems it really is like owning a BMW, people will immediately believe that you are going to drive like a box. Don't get me wrong, I agree that a S-Works Epic really isn't the bike for everyone, and I wouldn't buy the non-Evo version Epic either, but why judge people who want the raciest machine just because they do (and can afford it). My wife hates the relaxed geo on my Camber, and she's by no means a racing snake. It seems that social media has really become a place to judge and complain (which I am making myself guilty of too I know) but why not rather say it look's awesome, and I'd like one and move on, or simply move on without commenting. Milkman, marcfr, Patchelicious and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MTBeer Posted June 29, 2020 Share no comment... Duane_Bosch 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patchelicious Posted June 29, 2020 Share I don't get all the hate. Toyota charges R1,5m for a Cruiser that really doesn't offer 2020 (more like 2015) tech, and is most often not even driven on the kinda terrain that justifies it's existence, yet people aspire to own one and no one starts a riot. Something like 70% of all Golfs sold in SA are the Gti derivative, why, because buyers want them. Spez updates the most winningest XC bike in existence and most comments are about it's price, which as Tread indicated, isn't even the highest in the category, but no one is ragging Scott. It seems it really is like owning a BMW, people will immediately believe that you are going to drive like a box. Don't get me wrong, I agree that a S-Works Epic really isn't the bike for everyone, and I wouldn't buy the non-Evo version Epic either, but why judge people who want the raciest machine just because they do (and can afford it). My wife hates the relaxed geo on my Camber, and she's by no means a racing snake. It seems that social media has really become a place to judge and complain (which I am making myself guilty of too I know) but why not rather say it look's awesome, and I'd like one and move on, or simply move on without commenting.Very well put. To answer the question, people who hate on those with the expensive bikes are simply projecting their issues onto others. Myth, marcfr, bertusras and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eldron Posted June 29, 2020 Share I don't get all the hate. Toyota charges R1,5m for a Cruiser that really doesn't offer 2020 (more like 2015) tech, and is most often not even driven on the kinda terrain that justifies it's existence, yet people aspire to own one and no one starts a riot. Something like 70% of all Golfs sold in SA are the Gti derivative, why, because buyers want them. Spez updates the most winningest XC bike in existence and most comments are about it's price, which as Tread indicated, isn't even the highest in the category, but no one is ragging Scott. It seems it really is like owning a BMW, people will immediately believe that you are going to drive like a box. Don't get me wrong, I agree that a S-Works Epic really isn't the bike for everyone, and I wouldn't buy the non-Evo version Epic either, but why judge people who want the raciest machine just because they do (and can afford it). My wife hates the relaxed geo on my Camber, and she's by no means a racing snake. It seems that social media has really become a place to judge and complain (which I am making myself guilty of too I know) but why not rather say it look's awesome, and I'd like one and move on, or simply move on without commenting. Spesh lost a lot of fans and grew a ton of haters with their sue sue SUE culture. Their "Goliath smash David" attempt to get Roubaix Cycles to change their name must have set them back a few million fans alone. Not to mention action against ex employees, wheel manufacturers, bag manufacturers etc. They're legal bullies who know smaller shops/companies can't afford to defend themselves. That and the jealousy culture of course. Saffers should have a good emotional connection to them thanks to Burry and The Cavemen but I reckon tall poppy culture in SA is stronger than memories. Edit: https://www.velonews.com/gear/specializeds-disastrous-trademark-case-is-unnecessary-to-defend-the-brand/ Edited June 29, 2020 by Eldron NickGM, Christie, Hairy and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patchelicious Posted June 29, 2020 Share Spesh lost a lot of fans and grew a ton of haters with their sue sue SUE culture. Their "Goliath smash David" attempt to get Roubaix Cycles to change their name must have set them back a few million fans alone. Not to mention action against ex employees, wheel manufacturers, bag manufacturers etc. They're legal bullies who know smaller shops/companies can't afford to defend themselves. That and the jealousy culture of course. Saffers should have a good emotional connection to them thanks to Burry and The Cavemen but I reckon tall poppy culture in SA is stronger than memories. Edit: https://www.velonews.com/gear/specializeds-disastrous-trademark-case-is-unnecessary-to-defend-the-brand/To be fair, that is not why people hate on "Spaz" riders though... Myth 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairy Posted June 29, 2020 Share Spez updates the most winningest XC bike in existence and most comments are about it's price, which as Tread indicated, isn't even the highest in the category, but no one is ragging Scott. It seems it really is like owning a BMW, people will immediately believe that you are going to drive like a box. Technically the most winningest XC bike brand over the last 3 years (As of 2019) was actually Scott Bikes. Admittedly, the Spaz Epic would have rocked up at least double those wins if #LongLiveBurry was still racing! https://www.singletracks.com/mtb-gear/the-winningest-world-cup-xc-mountain-bikes-over-the-past-3-seasons/ Scott Spark: 50 Wins from 2016 – 2018 Specialized S-Works Epic full-suspension: 48 wins from 2016 – 2018 Kross Level: 19 wins from 2016 – 2018 Trek Procaliber: 18 wins from 2016 – 2018 Trek Top Fuel: 17 wins from 2016 – 2018 (will see more with Jolanda Neff) Cannondale Scalpel: 15 wins from 2016 – 2018 (none in 2016) BMC Four Stroke: 14 wins from 2016 – 2018 and consistent in every season. / Ghost Lector: 14 wins from 2016 – 2018 (all in 2018) Felt Nine: 13 wins from 2016 – 2018 (all in 2016). Model changed to Doctrine, but they lost Sina Frei in 2018. American Eagle Atlanta: 13 wins from 2016 – 2018 BH Lynx: 11 wins from 2016 – 2018 Scott Scale: 10 wins from 2016 – 2018 / BMC Teamelite: 10 wins from 2016 – 2018 BigDL, DieselnDust and ChrisF 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patchelicious Posted June 29, 2020 Share Technically the most winningest XC bike brand over the last 3 years (As of 2019) was actually Scott Bikes. Admittedly, the Spaz Epic would have rocked up at least double those wins if #LongLiveBurry was still racing! https://www.singletracks.com/mtb-gear/the-winningest-world-cup-xc-mountain-bikes-over-the-past-3-seasons/ Scott Spark: 50 Wins from 2016 – 2018 Specialized S-Works Epic full-suspension: 48 wins from 2016 – 2018 Kross Level: 19 wins from 2016 – 2018 Trek Procaliber: 18 wins from 2016 – 2018 Trek Top Fuel: 17 wins from 2016 – 2018 (will see more with Jolanda Neff) Cannondale Scalpel: 15 wins from 2016 – 2018 (none in 2016) BMC Four Stroke: 14 wins from 2016 – 2018 and consistent in every season. / Ghost Lector: 14 wins from 2016 – 2018 (all in 2018) Felt Nine: 13 wins from 2016 – 2018 (all in 2016). Model changed to Doctrine, but they lost Sina Frei in 2018. American Eagle Atlanta: 13 wins from 2016 – 2018 BH Lynx: 11 wins from 2016 – 2018 Scott Scale: 10 wins from 2016 – 2018 / BMC Teamelite: 10 wins from 2016 – 2018 And marathons? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eldron Posted June 29, 2020 Share To be fair, that is not why people hate on "Spaz" riders though... Of course. People hate Spesh riders because they're bell ends. Patchelicious, Sulli and DieselnDust 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselnDust Posted June 29, 2020 Share Technically the most winningest XC bike brand over the last 3 years (As of 2019) was actually Scott Bikes. Admittedly, the Spaz Epic would have rocked up at least double those wins if #LongLiveBurry was still racing! https://www.singletracks.com/mtb-gear/the-winningest-world-cup-xc-mountain-bikes-over-the-past-3-seasons/ Scott Spark: 50 Wins from 2016 – 2018 Specialized S-Works Epic full-suspension: 48 wins from 2016 – 2018 Kross Level: 19 wins from 2016 – 2018 Trek Procaliber: 18 wins from 2016 – 2018 Trek Top Fuel: 17 wins from 2016 – 2018 (will see more with Jolanda Neff) Cannondale Scalpel: 15 wins from 2016 – 2018 (none in 2016) BMC Four Stroke: 14 wins from 2016 – 2018 and consistent in every season. / Ghost Lector: 14 wins from 2016 – 2018 (all in 2018) Felt Nine: 13 wins from 2016 – 2018 (all in 2016). Model changed to Doctrine, but they lost Sina Frei in 2018. American Eagle Atlanta: 13 wins from 2016 – 2018 BH Lynx: 11 wins from 2016 – 2018 Scott Scale: 10 wins from 2016 – 2018 / BMC Teamelite: 10 wins from 2016 – 2018 Teams with the biggest budgets buy the fastest riders. Of course people will buy into that and be part of the fastest team. BigDL and Underachiever 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairy Posted June 29, 2020 Share And marathons?Marathons ... easy Haile Gebrselassiehttp://www.19thofjune.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/Haile-Gebrselassie.jpg Christie, Myth, Patchelicious and 5 others 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairy Posted June 29, 2020 Share Teams with the biggest budgets buy the fastest riders. Of course people will buy into that and be part of the fastest team.fully agree ....but still Scott beats Spaz as the "most winning" Christie and DieselnDust 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patchelicious Posted June 29, 2020 Share fully agree ....but still Scott beats Spaz as the "most winning" Wonder how much of that is down to Oom Nino ChrisF 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselnDust Posted June 29, 2020 Share fully agree ....but still Scott beats Spaz as the "most winning" And I prefer it that way as Scott doesn't come with that acidic taste of a large corporate bully. Would be great to see smaller teams with more interesting bikes getting some race wins in the XCO WC series. Like Pivot perhaps. Rooting for Chloe to get a XCO win in to match her Short track win.Would be great to see Intense back in the XCO field.Where's Niner, anyone seen Niner lately? Hairy and Captain Fastbastard Mayhem 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzie NL Posted June 29, 2020 Share Wonder how much of that is down to Oom NinoIn my view winning is 90+% rider. All major brands make awesome machines and the best rider can win on them allThink this is proven by several team switching bike sponsors without consequences re results. Re Nino....MvdP is gonna kick his butt whether the latter rides a Canyon/Scott / Spez or wheelbarrow DieselnDust, nathrix and Hairy 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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