Tour de France 2021

[kosmonooit]

You are forgetting cyclocross ... not quite mtb but true grit nevertheless, and pretty hardcore at times. World champ a few times if memory serves

 

Happy for Ecuador!

 

Edited July 18, 2021 by kosmonooit

[Mountain Bru]

10 hours ago, dsw said:

Vingegaard came in from the left. We will have to wait to see whether he can reproduce his current performance or whether he will be a one hit wonder like Tao G  Hart. Ben O'Conner was a revelation but I do not consider him as a legitimate Grand Tour contender.

I unfortunately think Vingegaard is going to be a bit of a one hit wonder too in terms of GC podiums. You can't just look at the results, but also how and when those results were obtained. Tao G won the Giro in probably the weakest field possible after all the Covid stories and Thomas etc crashing out. I mean 2nd and 3rd where Jai Hinley and Kelderman that year ????‍♂️. Mitchelton and Jumbo pulled their whole teams from the race. So yes, he won, but he's not a serious GC contender when the big boys come out to play. Even the year Carapaz won the Giro, I think he got a bit lucky not being marked closely enough when he was 2 minutes down, and then making all that time up on 1 stage. But a guy thats loosing 1:30 to his rivals in a 30km time trial is always going to struggle against the "favourites" like Pog, Rog or Bernal.  

Ben O'Conner got lucky this year too. Yes he finished 4th, but he was 10 minutes down, and that's after he made up 6 minutes on the stage he won when UAE didn't bother chasing him down in the break. If he was a serious contender, they'd have chased, and he'd likely have ended 16 minutes down in the end. 

So in my opinion, Jonas' coming second this year in a really weak field proves he's maybe on the "Mas, Lopez, Carapaz, Kelderman, etc" level, but he'll get smoked as soon as there's an uninjured Pog, Rog, Bernal, maybe even Thomas in the field. In previous years, if he finished 5:20 back on the leader, he'd have been 6th or 7th which I think is about right for him. 

[dsw]

33 minutes ago, Eldron said:

Cough cough mountain biking cough cough.

WvA can certainly ride a bike well but with that glaring mtb omission in his plamares he is well behind MvdP on the most complete cyclist scale.

Dammit, in my excitement about Wouts performances during the last week  I clean forgot about mountainbiking 

It is such a small sport  

 

 

 

 

 

[Eldron]

1 minute ago, dsw said:

Dammit, in my excitement about Wouts performances during the last week  I clean forgot about mountainbiking 

It is such a small sport  

 

 

 

 

 

MvdP also has 1 more CX world title if memory serves. After the TdF I'll happily hand WvA best all round road rider title though. That was an incredible Tour for WvA! There are not enough superlatives!

[Mountain Bru]

Whats with all the kids on the podium? This might be an unpopular opinion, but I really don't think there should be kids up there. And as a sponsor, I'd be pissed if my guy, whose salary I pay so that he can be a billboard for my company, gets on the podium of the world's biggest bike race, and then covers up my brand with his kid. 

Even this?? 

Hard to say anything bad about WVA though

[dsw]

10 minutes ago, kosmonooit said:

You are forgetting cyclocross ... not quite mtb but true grit nevertheless, and pretty hardcore at times. World champ a few times if memory serves

 

Happy for Ecuador!

 

Yeah, he has been good and was one of the very few riders who dared to attack Progacor. 

He has now also become one of the few active riders in the world who has a podium finish in all 3 grand tours. 

Fantastic performance for a rider who comes from rural Equador where poverty is probably still very prevalent.

[Mountain Bru]

5 minutes ago, Eldron said:

MvdP also has 1 more CX world title if memory serves. After the TdF I'll happily hand WvA best all round road rider title though. That was an incredible Tour for WvA! There are not enough superlatives!

He's the Frans Steyn "utility back" of cycling. He won on Ventoux, in the TT, and in a bunch sprint in Paris. The man doesn't seem to understand that you're only supposed to be good at one thing.  

[DieselnDust]

12 minutes ago, Mountain Bru said:

Whats with all the kids on the podium? This might be an unpopular opinion, but I really don't think there should be kids up there. And as a sponsor, I'd be pissed if my guy, whose salary I pay so that he can be a billboard for my company, gets on the podium of the world's biggest bike race, and then covers up my brand with his kid. 

Even this?? 

Hard to say anything bad about WVA though

That lady in the green dress is quite a looker.. Back to Wout

https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/wout-van-aert-im-just-a-little-cyclist-compared-with-eddy-merckx/

He had his kid up there as he had limited time to spend with him due to his travel plan scheduling departure to Tokyo at 11:30pm tonight

Edited July 18, 2021 by DieselnDust

[DieselnDust]

1 hour ago, Mountain Bru said:

I unfortunately think Vingegaard is going to be a bit of a one hit wonder too in terms of GC podiums. You can't just look at the results, but also how and when those results were obtained. Tao G won the Giro in probably the weakest field possible after all the Covid stories and Thomas etc crashing out. I mean 2nd and 3rd where Jai Hinley and Kelderman that year ????‍♂️. Mitchelton and Jumbo pulled their whole teams from the race. So yes, he won, but he's not a serious GC contender when the big boys come out to play. Even the year Carapaz won the Giro, I think he got a bit lucky not being marked closely enough when he was 2 minutes down, and then making all that time up on 1 stage. But a guy thats loosing 1:30 to his rivals in a 30km time trial is always going to struggle against the "favourites" like Pog, Rog or Bernal.  

Ben O'Conner got lucky this year too. Yes he finished 4th, but he was 10 minutes down, and that's after he made up 6 minutes on the stage he won when UAE didn't bother chasing him down in the break. If he was a serious contender, they'd have chased, and he'd likely have ended 16 minutes down in the end. 

So in my opinion, Jonas' coming second this year in a really weak field proves he's maybe on the "Mas, Lopez, Carapaz, Kelderman, etc" level, but he'll get smoked as soon as there's an uninjured Pog, Rog, Bernal, maybe even Thomas in the field. In previous years, if he finished 5:20 back on the leader, he'd have been 6th or 7th which I think is about right for him. 

I'mnot sure we watched the same race. Let me offer an alternative pov and we can re-open the discussion at the next GT that Jonas Vingegoart participates in.

Up until Stage 8, where Primoz basically bowed out Vingegoart was a few seconds ahead of Primoz and playing the wingman. His time loss on Stage 8 was more due to tactical indecision on the part of the team. He was 5min down from this point and basically yoyoed around that mark for the next 11 stages which is quite telling sine he didn't have the support until around Stage 13. It took TJV a while to regroup and decide on a course of action after Primoz realised he wasn't going to be a factor. Once they realigned and got their plan working Jonas delivered whereas Ben , Guillaume and others all fell away, including Dick Carapaz.

TJV will certainly groom this young man and he'll likely come back next year as the planned back up for Primoz rather than super domestique. Its taken a few stages for Jonas to realise his own abilities. This will only increase his confdence.

[Chris_]

7 hours ago, Mountain Bru said:

Whats with all the kids on the podium? This might be an unpopular opinion, but I really don't think there should be kids up there. And as a sponsor, I'd be pissed if my guy, whose salary I pay so that he can be a billboard for my company, gets on the podium of the world's biggest bike race, and then covers up my brand with his kid. 

Even this?? 

Hard to say anything bad about WVA though

You're on your own with that one

[Vetplant]

6 hours ago, DieselnDust said:

I'mnot sure we watched the same race. Let me offer an alternative pov and we can re-open the discussion at the next GT that Jonas Vingegoart participates in.

Up until Stage 8, where Primoz basically bowed out Vingegoart was a few seconds ahead of Primoz and playing the wingman. His time loss on Stage 8 was more due to tactical indecision on the part of the team. He was 5min down from this point and basically yoyoed around that mark for the next 11 stages which is quite telling sine he didn't have the support until around Stage 13. It took TJV a while to regroup and decide on a course of action after Primoz realised he wasn't going to be a factor. Once they realigned and got their plan working Jonas delivered whereas Ben , Guillaume and others all fell away, including Dick Carapaz.

TJV will certainly groom this young man and he'll likely come back next year as the planned back up for Primoz rather than super domestique. Its taken a few stages for Jonas to realise his own abilities. This will only increase his confdence.

Yeah. Vingegaard beat Pog by 25s in the TT and was able to stick with Pog on the climbs when no-one else but Carapaz could.

TJV will be very pleased with what they have found in Jonas. He might be a good option as the main protected rider at the Giro next year and then co-leader for Primos later at the TDF.

[Jewbacca]

I dig seeing the kids on the podium with their dads.

It shows a very human side to the athletes. If I was a sponsor and my athlete was on the podium beaming proudly while his kids looked on proudly I would be so stoked.

Family, love and solidity is so important. Sponsors, organisers and fans should embrace the human element of the riders. All too often we as fans are so hyper critical of their performances as athletes we forget they are just vulnerable humans who are just exceptional at cycling. 

The racist and just plain nasty comments coming out of the Euros proves that fans get so caught up in the game and the performances they forget these guys actually have feelings, families and their own issues. 

I'd also like to add that 3 weeks in a team/race bubble, with how long before the race? Some of these guys probably haven't seen or held their kids for a long time. I start getting anxious after 3 days away from my boy. I'd never be able to live in a world that judges me so hard so openly. I'm glad I don't have fans who tell me my family detracts from getting on the podium of a sport event

Edited July 19, 2021 by Jewbacca
bubble life

[Robbie Stewart]

If I am expected to support a company that values branding over family then my wallet will remain firmly shut. These riders on the podiums have done enough to be brand ambassadors for the 3 weeks they spent riding the Tour, and if their sponsors would be so selfish to not allow the kids on the podium then perhaps its time to relook the sponsorship deal and align with a company that has better values. The sacrifices made by the riders in being away from their loved ones, not just during the race, but also during lead-up training and the entire season as a whole means that any time to celebrate should include the families who also give up of their time with the sponsored riders so that they can train for the possibility of standing on the podium at the end.

To us as viewers its a sport. To the riders its a life and essentially their jobs. If my boss expects me to shaft my family in the interest of the bottom line then he should know that I'm leaving the first chance I get.

 

9 hours ago, Mountain Bru said:

Whats with all the kids on the podium? This might be an unpopular opinion, but I really don't think there should be kids up there. And as a sponsor, I'd be pissed if my guy, whose salary I pay so that he can be a billboard for my company, gets on the podium of the world's biggest bike race, and then covers up my brand with his kid. 

 

['Dale]

9 hours ago, Mountain Bru said:

Whats with all the kids on the podium? This might be an unpopular opinion, but I really don't think there should be kids up there. And as a sponsor, I'd be pissed if my guy, whose salary I pay so that he can be a billboard for my company, gets on the podium of the world's biggest bike race, and then covers up my brand with his kid. 

Even this?? 

Hard to say anything bad about WVA though

It’s a nomadic lifestyle, the WorldTour. Maybe home for 1/2 of the year, even less so being in a biosecure environment. Performance challenges may not be what keeps many talented athletes out of the team room; the lifestyle is a major variable. 

 After 3 weeks of crashing, cold, heat and luxury prison living (hotels), all that an athlete needs is the touch of home. ????

[FootballingCyclist]

14 hours ago, Vetplant said:

Yellow Jersey, White Jersey? 

Polka Dots anywhere? Onderbroek? 

His left shoe was white with red polka dots.

Edited July 19, 2021 by FootballingCyclist

[kosmonooit]

41 minutes ago, Jewbacca said:

I dig seeing the kids on the podium with their dads.

It shows a very human side to the athletes. If I was a sponsor and my athlete was on the podium beaming proudly while his kids looked on proudly I would be so stoked.

Family, love and solidity is so important. Sponsors, organisers and fans should embrace the human element of the riders. All too often we as fans are so hyper critical of their performances as athletes we forget they are just vulnerable humans who are just exceptional at cycling. 

The racist and just plain nasty comments coming out of the Euros proves that fans get so caught up in the game and the performances they forget these guys actually have feelings, families and their own issues. 

I'd also like to add that 3 weeks in a team/race bubble, with how long before the race? Some of these guys probably haven't seen or held their kids for a long time. I start getting anxious after 3 days away from my boy. I'd never be able to live in a world that judges me so hard so openly. I'm glad I don't have fans who tell me my family detracts from getting on the podium of a sport event

Ditto and and with Wout having to gap it to CDG to fly to Tokyo 4 hours later, time with family was very precious for him, I think it was great to see. Also Richard's kids, they must have come a long way.