Bike shops - Service quality vs salaries and profits

[SwissVan]

At the time I felt it was an already over-debated topic and Morne's comment made me mad, hence the short and sharp reply. Sorry. I agree that it is not that hard to build a bicycle, I build all my own (except for the wheels). That's if you have the inclination, time, patience and the budget to pay for your own mistakes.

 

But just because you find something easy does not mean that someone who does that thing for a living should be charging peanuts for it. That's my issue. And just because you like to do something yourself does not mean that someone else should not be able to make a fair wage doing that thing for other people who don't want to do it themselves. Also, you only need to get to know your own bikes, a shop mechanic needs to be able to wrench any bike and still be profitable. If they can't they will do something else and you will have to fix your own mistakes, service your own forks, build your own wheels etc etc. 

 

So have some respect for the cost of labour. You get what you pay for. If you don't, then go somewhere else, but don't de-value the whole industry. One day it might just not be there anymore.

 

"That's if you have the inclination, time, patience and the budget to pay for your own mistakes"

                         /\ 

Important point in the debate about paying a proper price for service / repairs

 

When you take your bike for a service repair, the shop does not have the luxury of time like we do when we do our own services / repairs... and customers rightfully expect the job to be done quickly, on time and to be perfect.

 

No matter how "easy" it is to work on a bicycle, its manual work and trouble shooting or DF(no onboard diagnostics and computers), you need to have the knowledge and skill set to perform the repair / service professionally and in as short a time as possible, so that you can move onto the next job and so on... 

 

Equally, shops that charge a proper labour rate for maintenance need to ensure their mechanics have the skill set and tooling to get the job done ala panasonic (right the first time every time).

 

Time is money

 

Pay peanuts, expect monkey business...

[SwissVan]

Just did an online job search for bicycle mechanics in switz...

 

41 hits 

 

 

Most of them seem to require training as bicycle mechanic, mechanic or polymechanic

Some require a Swiss Federal certificate of proficiency in one of the above trades,.

This certificate is obtained after a 3 year training period working in a bicycle shop with 1 day per week at "school"

 

 

A shortened period of training is possible if the candidate already has one of these:

 

Shortened basic education:

 

1-year basic vocational training as a small motorcycle and bicycle mechanic EFZ 2-year basic training as a motorcycle mechanic EFZ Higher professional examination (HFP) Operations manager in the two-wheeler industry with federal diploma diploma Higher technical School E.g. dipl. Technician HF mechanical engineering University of Applied Sciences E.g. Bachelor of Science (FH) in automotive engineering, Bachelor of Science (FH) in mechanical engineering

 

 

 

 

 

 

[DirtyDan]

I cdon't think I'm a complete idiot and I struggle enough on my own, KNOWN, bicycles with frequent muck-ups. To think that a bike mechanic can sort out a variety of bikes, with their proprietary nonsense, in a short span of time, is something to be respected and paid for (if done properly of course).

 

I mean, how often do we tell ourselves that a quick brake bleed or changing valve, rim tape, sealant and tyre should take 30-45mins max? Then to find 2 hours has passed your bedtime and you feel like a failure and want to give up the passion of bike riding/wrenching?

 

Respectfully, we pay professionals in the service industry for their knowledge & experience (never mind the tools) as to which screw must be replaced, rather than the cost of the screw...

[DR ◣◢]

Swinging a wrench is my way of relaxing. So is cleaning bikes, and keeping my pride and joy in pristine condition. 

 

For someone else taxidermy offers the same relaxation. 

 

While some things like a sealant change or cable replacement might be super easy to do not everyone wants to do it and would rather pay to have it done. 

 

I'm fully capable of fixing roof leaks but thanks to acrophobia I choose not to do it and would rather pay someone else to fall off my roof.  

[EDF]

This post caught my eye. It is not only in bike workshops but across all service industries. It never ceases to amaze me how people think that everything takes 5 minutes, and that you have to work for “free” I quote for a repair on a gate motor, and people complain about a mediocre amount, while looking inside the house junior is playing on his new PS4, the TV is bigger than the drive in screen and 2 new cars parked in the garage. Don’t get me wrong people can spend their money anyway they want too - they have earned it. But if you want the job done correct, don’t complain about the price, or get a guy from the corner who will charge you half and bugger it up - I come across this every so often and more damage was done than the initial repair would have cost.

[DieselnDust]

At the time I felt it was an already over-debated topic and Morne's comment made me mad, hence the short and sharp reply. Sorry. I agree that it is not that hard to build a bicycle, I build all my own (except for the wheels). That's if you have the inclination, time, patience and the budget to pay for your own mistakes. 

 

But just because you find something easy does not mean that someone who does that thing for a living should be charging peanuts for it. That's my issue. And just because you like to do something yourself does not mean that someone else should not be able to make a fair wage doing that thing for other people who don't want to do it themselves. Also, you only need to get to know your own bikes, a shop mechanic needs to be able to wrench any bike and still be profitable. If they can't they will do something else and you will have to fix your own mistakes, service your own forks, build your own wheels etc etc. 

 

So have some respect for the cost of labour. You get what you pay for. If you don't, then go somewhere else, but don't de-value the whole industry. One day it might just not be there anymore.

 

well is working on a bicycle easier than working on a motorcycle or motorcar for example?

Yes and no.

If  we stick to the catalogue form of maintenance where like for lie replacements of parts takes place then yes, a bicycle is easy to work on. Cars and motorcycles similarly. Consult a catalogue and select the part number appropriate for the make and model. 

Not much skill required to fit from a catalogue.

same with bicycles.

Troubleshooting.... no that's where the skill is showcased.

The more complex the vehicle the higher the skillset required the higher the labour charge out rate.

In some aspects a bicycle is more complicated to service than a car.

Suspension service on a car is greasing some bushings or replacement of shock absorbers.

Bicycle get the shock absorber taken apart and rebuilt and that's a pretty delicate operation.

 

car gearbox requires a skilled artisan whilst a bicycle drivetrain is simple enough for achild to understand except if you're dealing with an e-bike gearbox.

 

The biggest differentiator is the engine. Motorcar mechanics are qualified to work on those whereas a bicycle mechanic must refer the engine to a medical practitioner....

 

 

 

Just did an online job search for bicycle mechanics in switz...

 

41 hits 

3.JPG

 

Most of them seem to require training as bicycle mechanic, mechanic or polymechanic

Some require a Swiss Federal certificate of proficiency in one of the above trades,.

This certificate is obtained after a 3 year training period working in a bicycle shop with 1 day per week at "school"

 

 

A shortened period of training is possible if the candidate already has one of these:

 

Shortened basic education:

 

1-year basic vocational training as a small motorcycle and bicycle mechanic EFZ 2-year basic training as a motorcycle mechanic EFZ Higher professional examination (HFP) Operations manager in the two-wheeler industry with federal diploma diploma Higher technical School E.g. dipl. Technician HF mechanical engineering University of Applied Sciences E.g. Bachelor of Science (FH) in automotive engineering, Bachelor of Science (FH) in mechanical engineering

 

 

totally different way of valuing skills with the economy to support it. We must remember that in an emerging market, socialism of that magnitude isn't going to create jobs. We'll get there but by then the ANC will also be long gone

[The Ouzo]

As with most things, one can DIY, and by all means get away with just doing DIY for a long time.

And then wonder why experts charge so much if its so simple to do, but, where the experts/skills come in is when the instructions say you need to do ABC, but after doing A and B an E presents itself instead of a C. Knowing why the E is there and knowing how to get around the E so that you can get to the C is why it costs so much.

[LazyTrailRider]

Like with most things, there is a utility value of time calculation.

 

Regardless of whether I can sort 90% of jobs myself, my time is worth more to me than what my LBS charges, so I gladly pay them.

 

There are many people like me, which is why bike shops exist.

[Shebeen]

The biggest differentiator is the engine. Motorcar mechanics are qualified to work on those whereas a bicycle mechanic must refer the engine to a medical practitioner....

 

 

 

chirp of the year (so far)

[Eldron]

Here is a fine mind bender - made more bendy by the current exchange rates.

 

In Denmark a bike mechanic earns around 36,000kr a month. That's around R100,000.

 

Enough for housing, food, raising kids and living decently.

 

They get paid that much for many, many sociopoliticaleconomic reasons but the big one is human value. Why should a lawyer, doctor, accountant earn 30 times as much as a bike mechanic? Why not just 50% more? When education is free and you value people the tradition SA fark the poor model makes no sense.

[dave303e]

The purchase price of the bike aside, working on a bicycle is a lot easier than a motorbike.

 

Proficiency of repair is due to having the right tools, tools are expensive and a lot of Lbs workshops don't have all the necessary tools.

 

Bicycles and their lack of standards means that the number of special tools required is a joke, manufacturers causing costs really. Go buy all the tools to be able to tighten/press in all bottom bracket types and let me know what it costs you.

 

In comparison you can do 90% of the fixing or regular maintenance on a dirt bike with a socket set, spanners, pliers and screwdrivers. I have more special tools for bicycles than I do for motorbikes.

 

hahaha I was referring to the actual workings on a bike.... trying to understand the psyche of some people is just a well of despair...

 

Bicycles are really simple things. Motorbikes are not so simple. 

 

Motorbikes are fairly simple, most come with a comprehensive workshop manuals which make all of it relatively simple. Yes balancing a crank or cutting valve seats is special work, but it is actually relatively cheap to out source, the rest including suspension servicing is relatively doable.

 

 

 

Swinging a wrench is my way of relaxing. So is cleaning bikes, and keeping my pride and joy in pristine condition. 

 

For someone else taxidermy offers the same relaxation. 

 

While some things like a sealant change or cable replacement might be super easy to do not everyone wants to do it and would rather pay to have it done. 

 

I'm fully capable of fixing roof leaks but thanks to acrophobia I choose not to do it and would rather pay someone else to fall off my roof.  

 

+1, it is a relaxing past time, also no one loves your bike as much as you do. I have rebuilt and fixed many motorbike engines. First one was aged 14. I was taught if you ride it you must be able to fix it, because one day you may need to fix it to just get home. I think for bicycles it is usually just phone the mrs and walk out of there. Take a national offroad race, 30kms from dsp when your clutch is blown and you need to bosmechanic the clutch to get back makes you learn to know your bike.

 

That being said, certain jobs you can't pay me enough to do. Tiling, plumbing, removing seized in threaded bottom brackets...

 

 

I can't comprehend paying someone to fix a bicycle for me, honestly just can't. Then again I recently found out people pay others to change plugs on electrics, hang pictures and curtains etc because they can't. So maybe it is a skewed perspective.

[rudi-h]

i don't mind paying for service... but then I don't want a high school kid on a holiday job working on my bike either, so it goes both ways.

 

i took my bike to a very reputable repair shop recently.  It was a major service and I paid R5.7k for the outing (admittedly with a cassette replacement + fork & shock re-seal).  I did a little "test" to check bolt torque after it came back.  Not a single bolt was torqued to specification, and a sticky gear cable was not replaced...

 

up the game & i'll gladly open my wallet

[rudi-h]

people fancy different things in their free time, and some people just have less of free time than others...

 

many of us are pretty handy if we want to be, work doesn't allow one to get your hands dirty in the week.  on weekends i prefer to ride my bike rather than working on it.

 

 

Bicycles and their lack of standards means that the number of special tools required is a joke, manufacturers causing costs really. Go buy all the tools to be able to tighten/press in all bottom bracket types and let me know what it costs you.

 

In comparison you can do 90% of the fixing or regular maintenance on a dirt bike with a socket set, spanners, pliers and screwdrivers. I have more special tools for bicycles than I do for motorbikes.

 

 

Motorbikes are fairly simple, most come with a comprehensive workshop manuals which make all of it relatively simple. Yes balancing a crank or cutting valve seats is special work, but it is actually relatively cheap to out source, the rest including suspension servicing is relatively doable.

 

 

 

 

+1, it is a relaxing past time, also no one loves your bike as much as you do. I have rebuilt and fixed many motorbike engines. First one was aged 14. I was taught if you ride it you must be able to fix it, because one day you may need to fix it to just get home. I think for bicycles it is usually just phone the mrs and walk out of there. Take a national offroad race, 30kms from dsp when your clutch is blown and you need to bosmechanic the clutch to get back makes you learn to know your bike.

 

That being said, certain jobs you can't pay me enough to do. Tiling, plumbing, removing seized in threaded bottom brackets...

 

 

I can't comprehend paying someone to fix a bicycle for me, honestly just can't. Then again I recently found out people pay others to change plugs on electrics, hang pictures and curtains etc because they can't. So maybe it is a skewed perspective.

[MORNE]

snip

 

But just because you find something easy does not mean that someone who does that thing for a living should be charging peanuts for it. That's my issue. And just because you like to do something yourself does not mean that someone else should not be able to make a fair wage doing that thing for other people who don't want to do it themselves. Also, you only need to get to know your own bikes, a shop mechanic needs to be able to wrench any bike and still be profitable. If they can't they will do something else and you will have to fix your own mistakes, service your own forks, build your own wheels etc etc. 

 

So have some respect for the cost of labour. You get what you pay for. If you don't, then go somewhere else, but don't de-value the whole industry. One day it might just not be there anymore.

late to the party but let me continue. 

 

You'll find that post never debated what mechanics charge for building bikes and if they deserve what they charge.

 

I  merely stated that a bicycle is not a complicated machine....and that if you have the comprehension to follow basic instructions, you can build one yourself since bike components are relatively plug and play these days, like many other things. Thats all. The rest you inferred.

I'm not a IT specialist or computer engineer but i build my and customise own computers - like many do, he'll I even crack open my Macs and customise them.  I'm not a mechatronics or electrical engineer but i can build Rc helicopter kits, planes and drones as well as program them too. Because standardised components/ plug and play and "RTFM" is a thing lol. 

 

You needn't know how the internals of a fork works to figure out the minuscule task of putting one on your bike. 

If you give the avarage person a set of new components...packed out on the floor for a nice bike build picture, and you give them a set of basic instructions of what goes where....they will be able to build it without too much hassle. if your bike does not have a pressfit BB or headset...you don't even explicitly need any special tools either.

 

Pretty sure you can build a bicycle with just a hammer....

[The Ouzo]

late to the party but let me continue. 

 

You'll find that post never debated what mechanics charge for building bikes and if they deserve what they charge.

 

I  merely stated that a bicycle is not a complicated machine....and that if you have the comprehension to follow basic instructions, you can build one yourself since bike components are relatively plug and play these days, like many other things. Thats all. The rest you inferred.

I'm not a IT specialist or computer engineer but i build my and customise own computers - like many do, he'll I even crack open my Macs and customise them.  I'm not a mechatronics or electrical engineer but i can build Rc helicopter kits, planes and drones as well as program them too. Because standardised components/ plug and play and "RTFM" is a thing lol. 

 

You needn't know how the internals of a fork works to figure out the minuscule task of putting one on your bike. 

If you give the avarage person a set of new components...packed out on the floor for a nice bike build picture, and you give them a set of basic instructions of what goes where....they will be able to build it without too much hassle. if your bike does not have a pressfit BB or headset...you don't even explicitly need any special tools either.

 

Pretty sure you can build a bicycle with just a hammer....

I think you over estimate the abilities of the average person.

I know I often do and then am shocked when someone cant sort out the most basic of things.

[MORNE]

 

In some aspects a bicycle is more complicated to service than a car.

 

Suspension service on a car is greasing some bushings or replacement of shock absorbers.

Bicycle get the shock absorber taken apart and rebuilt and that's a pretty delicate operation.

 

snip

depends on the car and suspension. most cars basically come with what the SR sentour fork is to the mtb world. You are beter off the just take them off and throw them away and put a new ones on when the time comes. and that is exactly what happens. 

Now if you have proper aftermarket suspension on either your track day car or your crazy 4x4, your aftermarket suspension is just as customisable and serviceable as a comparatively crude telescopic aftermarket bicycle fork lol.