Events that are getting postponed again...

[Jewbacca]

34 minutes ago, Mountain Bru said:

Shucks man. Sounds like a super crap time, but I guess this season will pass, especially with the vaccines being rolled out to more and more people. 

I agree though that there are many ways to have an event that would reduce risk, especially mtb races. Road races are trickier because of the desire to ride in bunches, but most people would prefer no "bunches" on mtb races.
And if you did away with start bunches, and gave everyone a rough start time, and then let everyone start whenever they wanted between like 6am and 9am, there would be way less exposure between riders. Water points could also be made to be lower risk by making them bigger, spreading the field out more, having more stops so that there's fewer people at each stop, handing out water sachets and asking riders to keep moving rather than stand at the tables, not having any tables to sit and eat at at the finish etc etc etc. But all of this is admin, and I guess at some point the event stops being financially viable. 

What I do think though is that there is a market now for well organized, "covid safe" events because loads of guys want to do races/events and everything is being cancelled.

Thanks. To be fair I am still better off than a lot of people, just not as better off as I was 18 months ago. Our main aim has always been to pay our staff in full through this time (including personal staff) which we have managed to do successfully without going into debt or missing payments.

It has meant that personally, we have become very simple people with very simple needs. Like I need to ride my bike, run and surf as much as possible! hahahaha

My rantings were mostly to show that us in the flailing industries have had to change the way we operate to survive. Roll with the punches, be super flexible and accept that what worked in the past is now completely irrelevant. Event companies AND entrants need to accept this. 

A change in attitude, a change in focus and a change in modus operandi is the only way forward, even with vaccine roll outs.

IMHO guys getting off their lazy bums and organizing a group of mates to go riding somewhere is the way forward. So many good trail centres, camp spots, routes etc and instead of waiting for someone else to organise it for you, do it yourselves.

But people hate to be told what to do (ie masks, vaccines, social distancing) but also LOVE to be told what to do if it suits them, is easy and suits their narrative.... insert events here...

I'm super keen to do the cross cape routes and all the 500 iterations that Ray put out. A weekend of solid riding, sleeping in bushes, eating cold food.... mmmmmm On my 20inch bike. Because fun. Also, I'm lazy when it comes to planning routes, so plugging in a gpx file suits me

[DieselnDust]

10 minutes ago, Zarras said:

Nevermind, seems i heard wrong...

Wait we don't really know yet. I'm waiting for entries to close before they announce cancellation

[bleedToWin]

Not only is 100 Miler going ahead, but even added a 60 mile option now.
Also Winelands, Tour de Worcester, Durbie Dash, Killarney, Double Centrury. Cape Town marathon if running is also your jam...

[stringbean]

Lots of events going on at the moment but I suspect most of them will be testing the current laws around current lockdown regulations.I predict in the next month or 2 a event will get targeted and that will be the end for future events.

Im with Jewbucca on this,there will be NO return to normal.There has to be a mind change.If you in the events game it’s time to look at plan B.If you a youngster dreaming of a pro contract time to wake up.Those days are over.

The future of certain industries are bleak.I include things like epic ,CTCT etc.

[MORNE]

1 hour ago, Mountain Bru said:

Does this already exist though? I often have "novel" ideas and then find out it's already a thing that I'm unaware of. 

true story...

at uni 15y ish ago we had a concept for a project in architecture school for an urban design elective. We said:...well google maps exists, why cant you have a way to pin a location and book a 'taxi' to take you between destinations.

uber is 12 years old......

 

haha

Edited August 11, 2021 by MORNE

[MORNE]

2 hours ago, DieselnDust said:

Too easy to cancel and say sorry than to be creative and offer innovative solutions

this x 100

it's just plain lazy. 

Edited August 11, 2021 by MORNE

[Frosty]

That’s why we have ditched the mass start type road race in favour of a Team Event, like the DC and Maluti D90.

https://germistonclassic.co.za/our-events/

Edited August 11, 2021 by Frosty

[ChrisF]

Consider the other side of the coin ....

 

Current covid regs keep the numbers too low for viable events.

 

Huge legal risks for those pushing the boundaries ....

 

 

Sad reality .... SA vaccine roll out wont get to 60% by the end of the year.  Dont expect any real mass events until 2022 ... if we are lucky the CTCT may be firts real event in March.

 

 

The team that arrange the Spur MTB have been working for months to try and get the series going again .... simply no way they can do it legally under the current regulations.  (More info expected shortly...)

 

 

Event organisers are all but "lazy" .... they NEED to get events going to get their cash flow going again ....

 

 

From the landlords to the charities, each and every sector is bleeding .....

 

 

2020 there was an "event" at Hemel and Aarde.  You paid your entry, got the route details, then you could do the route sometime during the next week, send them your Strava link for your ride.   Partly surprised we dont see more of these ....then again, people want the "race vibe" ....

[DonatelloOnPinarello]

7 hours ago, DieselnDust said:

Too easy to cancel and say sorry than to be creative and offer innovative solutions

I think it’s fair to assume your involvement in the events planning industry (beyond just being a paying participant is limited). This is a little bit of a harsh rebuttal of all event planners. The rules/guidelines are a minefield to negotiate at the best of times, even more so now, and the rules also keep changing constantly. 
 

I really feel for the event organisers. It’s been a tough industry since forever, but right now it’s near impossible. Beyond pandering to the expectations/demands of their clients, they also have to get go ahead from the local government most of the time (the level at which official sign off is needed varies based on the scale of the event). The decision to cancel/go ahead very often depends on the input/feedback from the relevant authority, and this would obviously change based on what municipal authority you fall under. If the current guy in government you need to appease says no go, it’s no go. So you need to check and recheck on a daily basis wether your will likely get the go ahead come start day. No one wants to be the event organiser that cancels the day before the event. But the final sign off of the event permit is done 24-48 hours before the event kicks off, and even then, the relevant authority can change their mind if the situation changes. So organisers have no choice but to cancel if they get feedback that implies go ahead might not be given. 
 

saying this is unfair etc because event A cancelled while event B is still going ahead is also non sensical. They are needing to comply with the same vague set of rules, but administered by referees with varying interpretation of the rules. 
 

on top of that, one needs to think about whether the required “innovative solutions” will be accepted by your clientele, or not. Or if it’s viable based on your business model or not.

The fact that some events can go ahead and others can’t, is so much more complex than orginser A is lazy, Orgineser B is a champ. 
 

It will be a long time before anyone forgets Epic 2020 being cancelled literally the day before the Prologue. A week prior, the CTCT went ahead, with a record attendance. No one could have imagined what was about to come. By the time CTCT took place, we had heard of Covid, but had no idea how governments would react, or how things would be changed across the world, nor how long it would be before normality sets in. I have it on relatively good authority that the entire originising team was ready to go with the epic. But, the Western Cape government, specifically the disaster management portfolio, who are the duly appointed authority, appointed by the Premier to sign off event permits for an event like the epic, (Individual bivoucs/race villages etc amd stages also need to be signed off by the specific municipalities),decided not to sign off the event permit. Remember, this final sign off only happens somewhere between 24 and 48 hours ahead of the event, officially, in reality, it often only happens mere hours ahead of the start of an event. The MEC’s office declined signing off on the permit the Friday morning…. 24 hours before the official start. No event organiser wants to find themselves in this position. 

Understandably, everyone was up in arms after that cancellation, and I promise you, no one saw the cancellation as an easy out/lazy option. Remember, these events are run as a business. The larger events are essentially a full time job for the core team, and they need to be paid salaries for a full year. Suppliers are paid months in advance to secure services, with very strict cancellation terms. Race villages are essentially set up a couple days ahead of the event. None of the ancillary services are refundable. Catering is a perishable, the guys running the showers/toilets etc cannot find new work on short notice. The tents set up, bedding, bike wash, everything is a total loss if the “clients” in this case riders, don’t show up. The epic had the first 3 tent villages 100% set up, and the other two 80% ready to go. All of that a total loss since there was no event. Not an easy out/lazy solution for anyone. Most of the time, these events direct costs are covered by title sponsors, like ABSA, but the contracts normally state that the sponsor only pays over their contribution if the event is a success. 
 

So for any of these major events, you can understand the organisers are torn. On the one hand, they have a core team that needs to be paid salaries for a full year, come what may. On top of that, they rely on dozens of service providers that need to be paid substantial deposits in advance. With strict cancelation clauses. I hear the notion often lately that “they” have sat on our money earning interest for a year now…. That’s just not true. The events companies had racked up substantial expenses even before the time entries opened, and the sponsor contribution will only materialise after the event is run. So they carry huge risk/exposure. The sooner they cancel (once they get the hint from the relevant authority that the chances of an event permit being issued is slim, the higher refund etc they can expect form their service providers, in order to pay refunds to riders etc….

 

so, it’s all down to the relationship the organisers have with the applicable highest authority, the deal/contract they have with their sponsor, the terms of the deals they have with their service providers etc. The choice to cancel early, or wait till the government makes the call for you, is up to each organisers appetite for risk. But epic 2020 put all organisers on the safe/cautios path. 
 

I will refer back to this post a few times below. 

7 hours ago, Jewbacca said:

What is crazy is that an event like CTCT implements methods to still host the event and then gets lambasted because those methods don't allow a fair reflection of who came 26142nd........

I am one of those guest house owners who was flourishing 2 years ago and now not so much. I've stopped taking deposits, stopped implementing charges unless it is a blatant no show, allowed future bookings to stay on the calendar with zero commitment, started renting apartments out long term  and dropped the rates massively just to pay my staff and cover my bills.

The issue with bike events is often the cyclists and their demand for certain things. Field size, support staff, food/water supply stations etc

Trail running events are happening unsupported, carry your own, register on line, rolling starts, times loops etc... 

Call the event organisers lazy, but the backlash over cancelling the event is easier to handle than the backlash over hosting an event that in any way doesn't suit the narrative of cyclists.

 

Unless you are in the industry, you can’t understand the implications of all of this. I take my hat off to you guys, especially if you own the properties you manage. I would have sold the “asset” being the buildings/property at a loss in April 2020 already and put the money into a different industry altogether. Yes, tourism will recover, eventually, at some time in the future. But South Africa is going to be left behind big time, most specifically due to our slow vaccine rollout. As long as we stay on red lists, while the world gradually re-opens, we will keep losing tourist traffic to our competing markets. For 10 years already, East Africa has been stealing away the clientele coming for the big 5. They have arguably even more of a colonial big “big game” heritage than us, and have a real and notable advantage over us in terms of wildlife product in a proper “wilderness” setting. The other action/adventure holiday market has been slowly but surely eroded away by the South American and Eastern European markets. Both of which are short haul flights away, and offer enormous value - without the major security issues/instabilities etc that our market is hindered by, even without bringing Covid into play. The US/UK/EU governments are less concerned with countries like Columbia/Hertzgovia-Bosnia/Pakistan/Egypt/Algeria/Morocco etc than they are with us, from a security point of view, nevermind the currently super peaceful countries like Chile/Argentina etc, and publish travel advisories accordingly. All these places offer a as good, if not better adventure tourism experience, at similar, if not better prices than we do. Our tourism industry is in deep ****, both internally thanks to our wonderful guvment, and externally due to series, open market competition. 
 

Western Cape establishment are slightly better off, due to the fact that tourists want to visit Africa and Cape Town, to many, it makes no difference if that “Africa” is the Masai Mara or Sabi Sands, as long as they get their table mountain and V&A selfie to finish off their “Africa” trip album. While this benefits the WC establishments, they are simultaneously also hardest hit by the unsustainable over investment in tourism services driven by the 2010 Soccer World Cup. Whether accomodation (especially BnB/Geusthouses), wheels operators, experiences etc. South Africa completely over invested into the industry in order to supply the rush in 2010. If any good can/does. One out of this current slump, is that it hopefully resets the industry to sustainable levels. 

 

for you personally, I hope you were one of those that was there before 2010, and is still there, sustainably after the reset. 

7 hours ago, tubed said:

Was interesting to see first hand how Chris and Julia staged the Freedom Challenge events, most of the riders were 100% supportive of whatever they required the riders to do and extra expense the riders were asked to incur. The race office itself made a lot of expensive adjustments as they went, so from everyone involved there was an appreciation that we were lucky to be just riding bikes when many others in society were making/ suffering real sacrifices in their normal lives. 

Notwithstanding these challenges the races went ahead and there were no incidents, but it takes a co-operative approach which recognises that these are extraordinary times and we are just riding bikes.

The gravity of it was brought home when a small nature reserve manager tells you of the sacrifices they are willing to make to host the riders, for without the riders they would not have seen a paying client for 2 years, this on the back of already challenging economic fortunes pre Covid. 

  

  

I think it’s fair to assume Freedom Challenge participants are a very different client to your typical weekend warrior, Sani2C, W2W etc etc. 
 

These are tough dudes and duddettes that mostly prefer being 100% self reliant. They are just happy to be there and to make it to the end in one piece. There’s a reason no one is doing the FC to raise “awareness” for XYZ cause, or riding in a CHOC cow suite, or expecting any kind of “recognition” beyond a polyester finishers blanket. They don’t expect manicured trails, overstocked fuelling stations catering for every variant of special dietary requirement, and a gender inclusive ablution arrangements. They would be happy to accept any concession the orginser needs to make in order to allow the event to take place, and would actually probably be happy to pay more, for even less support, just to say they rode the fully unsupported FC. (I admit this is somewhat of a generalisation, but I don’t think I’m far from the truth.) 

 

in contrast,the typical S2C or W2W rider is going to write a strongly worded review on the vents FB page, as well as Hello Peter and the huisgenoot, if the water pressure in the communal shower isn’t quite up to standard, never mind the Temperature of said water. Also, their better be a representative selection of vegan+Banting+halaal/Kosher, high protein, low carb snack options at the midday feed stop, as well as a suitable sugar free, gender neutral energy drink a every checkpoint,  and a grass fed organic recovery shake at the bar at each overnight stop, to enjoy while having your post (65km, fully supported) days ride.

Every single finishers blanket owner deserves a modicum of respect as a human being. 95% of the finishers medals holders of every one of the regular mass participation events is an entitled prick, riding on a fully paid entry sponsored by the company they are only loyal to until a better offer comes along. (Again, somewhat of a genrilisation, but also largely actuate)

7 hours ago, Skubarra said:

I think the problem is convincing the authorities involved that your creative & innovative solutions will pass all the covid related red tape, and then secondly as Jewbacca said, whether people will be convinced to pay to enter your creative alternative.

Seems to me Attakwas and Trans Baviaans are going ahead so hopefully things are starting to turn around

Wait till 24 hours before had, before being so sure. Like mentioned above, the final legislative sign off only happens a day or two before the event if your lucky. I do hope for the competitors sake the event goes ahead, but even more so for the organisers. Ecobound is a case in point here. They are a small business that is 100% sustained by running of 2 events a year, the Transbavians and 2Hell&Back. Neither have taken place now for 2 years. They got a lot of flack for opening entries for 2022 before having run the postponed 2020 event. I understand the reasoning behind doing this, because they needed to secure business for the future, amd could not have anticipated the duration of these restrictions. If this upcoming event is cancelled, there is serious trouble, and a family business, and at least a dozen full time people’s livelihoods is essentially stuffed.

7 hours ago, Mountain Bru said:

Shucks man. Sounds like a super crap time, but I guess this season will pass, especially with the vaccines being rolled out to more and more people. 

I agree though that there are many ways to have an event that would reduce risk, especially mtb races. Road races are trickier because of the desire to ride in bunches, but most people would prefer no "bunches" on mtb races.
And if you did away with start bunches, and gave everyone a rough start time, and then let everyone start whenever they wanted between like 6am and 9am, there would be way less exposure between riders. Water points could also be made to be lower risk by making them bigger, spreading the field out more, having more stops so that there's fewer people at each stop, handing out water sachets and asking riders to keep moving rather than stand at the tables, not having any tables to sit and eat at at the finish etc etc etc. But all of this is admin, and I guess at some point the event stops being financially viable. 

What I do think though is that there is a market now for well organized, "covid safe" events because loads of guys want to do races/events and everything is being cancelled.

All those suggestions I can see are coming from a good/thoughtful place, but these all have real cost implications, and are in reality a lot less feasible than they seem on the outset. Add to that, the riders won’t be happy either way. There will either be too many or too few water points, the additional water points will either be understocked, or at the wrong distance or something. Especially for events with a reasonable heritage. I’d suddenly there isn’t a support station at the top of Mother, because there is now one at the start, and one after the descend, in order to spread them, everyone will be unhappy. 

also, how do you decide where/how to space the additional water point? You can have 50% more water points, but everyone is still only going to require support at specific intervals. So the extra points will end up being oversupplied, and under-utilised, while the normal intervals will remain overrun, and then there will be that one event the authorities choose to make an example of, and cancel mid event, because the 38km water point 2 is overcrowded. It’s an impossible balancing act. 

6 hours ago, DieselnDust said:

Well the nature reserves are selling hiking permits and taking accommodation bookings and allowing trail running events to pass through....

CTM is opting for 300 person start groups...

K2C cancelled

something is very wrong here. What can create such divergent options?

Cape Pioneer was also cancelled...again. relatively small field. i would have been happy to be self sufficient re-nutrition with maybe prepared bottled at the water points ala cape epic nutrition service.

 

I'd be ok if there was a blanket rulin g that says no sporting events till 31/12/2021.

But now I enter and I lose my money. If I don't enter the event goes under. Its a lose lose scenario with a small chance of victory

As mentioned above, different local authorities, different measuring sticks, different risk profiles. Impossible to say because a 1day event in one municipality can go ahead, a different, multi day event spread across various municipalities is canceled, there is something malicious going on. 

6 hours ago, YaseenEnos said:

what do you think of the Pursuit Challenge concept?

I did the wellington one and although having a one water bottle bike brought its challenges i still liked the "unsupported" event.

they even had an unmanned water station at the halfway mark.

Pursuit challenge is a good concept thought up to get around some of the current regulations, and it works because it is the best current compromise. It doesn’t give sponsors the exposure/interaction they want out of events, and is not long term sustainable. 

6 hours ago, Mountain Bru said:

Thinking of @Jewbacca's trouble with tenants, what do you guys think of "bike packing" races? Almost like a stage race, but not everyone is doing the stages at the same time, but everyone stays at the same places when they do it.

Not everyone wants to do hardcore million km races where they have to fend for themselves like the Munga. Some guys do races just so that someone else organizes a nice ride for them, sorts out all of the logistics, and maybe gives them some form of ranking afterwards. If a group of guest house/campsite owners got together, organized a beautiful route between their accommodations, and then made a "bike packing" race where you get timed from exit of one to entry on another (or from some point outside of town to another point in the next town), they could basically offer a 3 or 4 day "stage race" where riders could start on any day of the week, and then move along a set route each day to complete the race. And then at the end of the month, the winner of each stage and the overall "GC" is announced. (Timing by strava I guess)

In my mind, this would be a gravel race, be in the western cape, and be "semi-supported" in that breakfast and dinner are provided, but everything else is your own problem. Maybe also with a "crate" system that is transported from one place to the next each day. And like 100 -120 km a day. 

The big win for the guys planning the story would be that they'd get people using their accommodation more regularly if the event was popular. And there would likely be good exposure from more cyclists seeing their place as a good option for future bike packing adventures. And for the riders, you basically have a bike packing adventure planned for you, and it's also a race if that's what you're into, and it basically can't be cancelled unless guest houses have to close and you can't ride your bicycle outside anymore.  

Does this already exist though? I often have "novel" ideas and then find out it's already a thing that I'm unaware of. 

Everyone thinks this is a great idea, until a mechanical or injury happens in the middle of two support stations, or even worse a rider hits the wall in but f@rk no where, and there is no backup/medic/shuttle 5min away. Like I said, Freedom Challenge/Munga etc participants are a different type. Normal paying pax are happy with everything until something goes pear shaped, then everything is the person you paid your entry fees to’s fault 

That said, I do like this thinking. I think we definately need more of this kind of approach. Not nescisarilly as an “event” or “race”, but rather more as an opening of access to rights to roam, like is seen in many other countries, and a set of recognised overnight establishments and catering options. Something along the lines of a Camino in Europe, but modified to suite local conditions. 

So something like permission for access across private property (required because of our lack of suitable public land and non existence of public “rights to roam”), but only to registered riders/walkers/runners etc who have been issued with a route “passport” to be stamped/checked at certain points along the route. A group of accomodation owners/operators choosing to collaborate on a fixed range of accomodation prices, a fixed price late lunch/dinner offering etc to registered trail users. Anyone who has ever done a European Camino pilgrimage (the proper way) would understand this concept. We have the so called MTB Camino in the western cape, but this is essentially just an unguided tour with a bunch of pre-book campsites along the way. Instead of events, we need regional tourism bodies to work out MTB “pilgrim” offers/plans. Imagine being able to take on @ 300-1000km ride, with a standardised basic Accommodation tariff, and a fixed cost daily lunch/dinner offering. I would do one these type trips once a month. I don’t want to carry tents etc and be self sufficient like on the MTB Camino, and camp night in night out. But a basic bed somewhere between a good backpackers and a reasonable 3 star bnb, a reasonable fixed price dinner and a carafe of wine, and authorised access on trails across private and public property, instead of just riding public access gravel roads. That is something I, and I believe many others, would happily pay R550-R700 a night for. This would provide a reasonable income stream for rural Accomodation/restuarant owners, and a decent value offering to riders, while maintaining control through a permit/passport program - actually I think this concept justifies a new thread all on it’d own….. maybe tomorrow. 

6 hours ago, Jewbacca said:

Thanks. To be fair I am still better off than a lot of people, just not as better off as I was 18 months ago. Our main aim has always been to pay our staff in full through this time (including personal staff) which we have managed to do successfully without going into debt or missing payments.

It has meant that personally, we have become very simple people with very simple needs. Like I need to ride my bike, run and surf as much as possible! hahahaha

My rantings were mostly to show that us in the flailing industries have had to change the way we operate to survive. Roll with the punches, be super flexible and accept that what worked in the past is now completely irrelevant. Event companies AND entrants need to accept this. 

A change in attitude, a change in focus and a change in modus operandi is the only way forward, even with vaccine roll outs.

IMHO guys getting off their lazy bums and organizing a group of mates to go riding somewhere is the way forward. So many good trail centres, camp spots, routes etc and instead of waiting for someone else to organise it for you, do it yourselves.

But people hate to be told what to do (ie masks, vaccines, social distancing) but also LOVE to be told what to do if it suits them, is easy and suits their narrative.... insert events here...

I'm super keen to do the cross cape routes and all the 500 iterations that Ray put out. A weekend of solid riding, sleeping in bushes, eating cold food.... mmmmmm On my 20inch bike. Because fun. Also, I'm lazy when it comes to planning routes, so plugging in a gpx file suits me

Agreed, more people Medco just go out amd do things, whiteout relying on an events company t organise it for them, the entire industry benefits from this. On the flip side, the South African scenario and our lack of free passage/right to roam does limo this much beyond gravel bike type trips. But yes, more people should be doing mor of this. 

6 hours ago, bleedToWin said:

Not only is 100 Miler going ahead, but even added a 60 mile option now.
Also Winelands, Tour de Worcester, Durbie Dash, Killarney, Double Centrury. Cape Town marathon if running is also your jam...

As mentioned above. If they actually get the permit signed off and go ahead good for them. I hope they can manage the risk effectively. If the plug is pulled a few days ahead of time, I hope the participants accept the risk they took when they paid their entry, and everyone can come to a happy conclusion. 

5 hours ago, MORNE said:

this x 100

it's just plain lazy. 

Addressed in the first few paragraphs. The only way you can make a statement like this is if you completely have no understanding of the industry. 
 

That said, events companies/organisers need to start thinking creatively about their next phase/business strategy. Events like we know them are dead for another 24months at least in SA. Th rest of the world is opening up. But we have to accept the limitations our elected government have put on us. I’m attending eurobike in 3 weeks time, amd it’s looking to be the sam kind of event it was in 2019. Buts in Europe, with major vaccine rollout in place, protocols being adhere to, and poeple like us,  owing from the third world, having to adhere to strict protocols in order to attend. 
 

a hotel in Zurich is getting about 600 bedniights sold, to vaccinate South Africans, just do a small number of us can attend the show in Spain. The unvaxxed are being left behind. I’m only vaccinated because I was lucky/gifted enough to spend enough time outside of SA to get myself vaccinated in a country that functions. 
 

before any normality returns to the South African realm, we need to reach 65% vaccination minimum. Before then, nothing much will change from the status quo. If you enter for an event in SA today, you need to accept the risk. But if you want there to still be similar events in 3 years time, yo need to support the guys trying to keep the industry alive noW, risk and all. 

Edited August 11, 2021 by DonatelloOnPinarello

[DIPSLICK]

Meouwwwww, you ladies are passionate 

pre this madness happening I was also leaning towards a few mates, wives driving ahead with support, stop overs and just cruising having fun

race vibe is fun yes, done enough events to think to myself,,,, man I would much rather be here with a bunch of mates having a jol not 300 LEGENDS fighting to get to position #457

reading the above, sad news for many this situation is going no where for at least 18-24 months vaccines or not

make more friends plan trips and if you looking for slow and consistent and extremely work flexible riders include me on a trip I’ll carry the lantern ????

 

[Mountain Bru]

22 minutes ago, DonatelloOnPinarello said:

I think it’s fair to assume your involvement in the events planning industry (beyond just being a paying participant is limited). This is a little bit of a harsh rebuttal of all event planners. The rules/guidelines are a minefield to negotiate at the best of times, even more so now, and the rules also keep changing constantly. 
 

I really feel for the event organisers. It’s been a tough industry since forever, but right now it’s near impossible. Beyond pandering to the expectations/demands of their clients, they also have to get go ahead from the local government most of the time (the level at which official sign off is needed varies based on the scale of the event). The decision to cancel/go ahead very often depends on the input/feedback from the relevant authority, and this would obviously change based on what municipal authority you fall under. If the current guy in government you need to appease says no go, it’s no go. So you need to check and recheck on a daily basis wether your will likely get the go ahead come start day. No one wants to be the event organiser that cancels the day before the event. But the final sign off of the event permit is done 24-48 hours before the event kicks off, and even then, the relevant authority can change their mind if the situation changes. So organisers have no choice but to cancel if they get feedback that implies go ahead might not be given. 
 

saying this is unfair etc because event A cancelled while event B is still going ahead is also non sensical. They are needing to comply with the same vague set of rules, but administered by referees with varying interpretation of the rules. 
 

on top of that, one needs to think about whether the required “innovative solutions” will be accepted by your clientele, or not. Or if it’s viable based on your business model or not.

The fact that some events can go ahead and others can’t, is so much more complex than orginser A is lazy, Orgineser B is a champ. 
 

It will be a long time before anyone forgets Epic 2020 being cancelled literally the day before the Prologue. A week prior, the CTCT went ahead, with a record attendance. No one could have imagined what was about to come. By the time CTCT took place, we had heard of Covid, but had no idea how governments would react, or how things would be changed across the world, nor how long it would be before normality sets in. I have it on relatively good authority that the entire originising team was ready to go with the epic. But, the Western Cape government, specifically the disaster management portfolio, who are the duly appointed authority, appointed by the Premier to sign off event permits for an event like the epic, (Individual bivoucs/race villages etc amd stages also need to be signed off by the specific municipalities),decided not to sign off the event permit. Remember, this final sign off only happens somewhere between 24 and 48 hours ahead of the event, officially, in reality, it often only happens mere hours ahead of the start of an event. The MEC’s office declined signing off on the permit the Friday morning…. 24 hours before the official start. No event organiser wants to find themselves in this position. 

Understandably, everyone was up in arms after that cancellation, and I promise you, no one saw the cancellation as an easy out/lazy option. Remember, these events are run as a business. The larger events are essentially a full time job for the core team, and they need to be paid salaries for a full year. Suppliers are paid months in advance to secure services, with very strict cancellation terms. Race villages are essentially set up a couple days ahead of the event. None of the ancillary services are refundable. Catering is a perishable, the guys running the showers/toilets etc cannot find new work on short notice. The tents set up, bedding, bike wash, everything is a total loss if the “clients” in this case riders, don’t show up. The epic had the first 3 tent villages 100% set up, and the other two 80% ready to go. All of that a total loss since there was no event. Not an easy out/lazy solution for anyone. Most of the time, these events direct costs are covered by title sponsors, like ABSA, but the contracts normally state that the sponsor only pays over their contribution if the event is a success. 
 

So for any of these major events, you can understand the organisers are torn. On the one hand, they have a core team that needs to be paid salaries for a full year, come what may. On top of that, they rely on dozens of service providers that need to be paid substantial deposits in advance. With strict cancelation clauses. I hear the notion often lately that “they” have sat on our money earning interest for a year now…. That’s just not true. The events companies had racked up substantial expenses even before the time entries opened, and the sponsor contribution will only materialise after the event is run. So they carry huge risk/exposure. The sooner they cancel (once they get the hint from the relevant authority that the chances of an event permit being issued is slim, the higher refund etc they can expect form their service providers, in order to pay refunds to riders etc….

 

so, it’s all down to the relationship the organisers have with the applicable highest authority, the deal/contract they have with their sponsor, the terms of the deals they have with their service providers etc. The choice to cancel early, or wait till the government makes the call for you, is up to each organisers appetite for risk. But epic 2020 put all organisers on the safe/cautios path. 
 

I will refer back to this post a few times below. 

Unless you are in the industry, you can’t understand the implications of all of this. I take my hat off to you guys, especially if you own the properties you manage. I would have sold the “asset” being the buildings/property at a loss in April 2020 already and put the money into a different industry altogether. Yes, tourism will recover, eventually, at some time in the future. But South Africa is going to be left behind big time, most specifically due to our slow vaccine rollout. As long as we stay on red lists, while the world gradually re-opens, we will keep losing tourist traffic to our competing markets. For 10 years already, East Africa has been stealing away the clientele coming for the big 5. They have arguably even more of a colonial big “big game” heritage than us, and have a real and notable advantage over us in terms of wildlife product in a proper “wilderness” setting. The other action/adventure holiday market has been slowly but surely eroded away by the South American and Eastern European markets. Both of which are short haul flights away, and offer enormous value - without the major security issues/instabilities etc that our market is hindered by, even without bringing Covid into play. The US/UK/EU governments are less concerned with countries like Columbia/Hertzgovia-Bosnia/Pakistan/Egypt/Algeria/Morocco etc than they are with us, from a security point of view, nevermind the currently super peaceful countries like Chile/Argentina etc, and publish travel advisories accordingly. All these places offer a as good, if not better adventure tourism experience, at similar, if not better prices than we do. Our tourism industry is in deep ****, both internally thanks to our wonderful guvment, and externally due to series, open market competition. 
 

Western Cape establishment are slightly better off, due to the fact that tourists want to visit Africa and Cape Town, to many, it makes no difference if that “Africa” is the Masai Mara or Sabi Sands, as long as they get their table mountain and V&A selfie to finish off their “Africa” trip album. While this benefits the WC establishments, they are simultaneously also hardest hit by the unsustainable over investment in tourism services driven by the 2010 Soccer World Cup. Whether accomodation (especially BnB/Geusthouses), wheels operators, experiences etc. South Africa completely over invested into the industry in order to supply the rush in 2010. If any good can/does. One out of this current slump, is that it hopefully resets the industry to sustainable levels. 

 

for you personally, I hope you were one of those that was there before 2010, and is still there, sustainably after the reset. 

I think it’s fair to assume Freedom Challenge participants are a very different client to your typical weekend warrior, Sani2C, W2W etc etc. 
 

These are tough dudes and duddettes that mostly prefer being 100% self reliant. They are just happy to be there and to make it to the end in one piece. There’s a reason no one is doing the FC to raise “awareness” for XYZ cause, or riding in a CHOC cow suite, or expecting any kind of “recognition” beyond a polyester finishers blanket. They don’t expect manicured trails, overstocked fuelling stations catering for every variant of special dietary requirement, and a gender inclusive ablution arrangements. They would be happy to accept any concession the orginser needs to make in order to allow the event to take place, and would actually probably be happy to pay more, for even less support, just to say they rode the fully unsupported FC. (I admit this is somewhat of a generalisation, but I don’t think I’m far from the truth.) 

 

in contrast,the typical S2C or W2W rider is going to write a strongly worded review on the vents FB page, as well as Hello Peter and the huisgenoot, if the water pressure in the communal shower isn’t quite up to standard, never mind the Temperature of said water. Also, their better be a representative selection of vegan+Banting+halaal/Kosher, high protein, low carb snack options at the midday feed stop, as well as a suitable sugar free, gender neutral energy drink a every checkpoint,  and a grass fed organic recovery shake at the bar at each overnight stop, to enjoy while having your post (65km, fully supported) days ride.

Every single finishers blanket owner deserves a modicum of respect as a human being. 95% of the finishers medals holders of every one of the regular mass participation events is an entitled prick, riding on a fully paid entry sponsored by the company they are only loyal to until a better offer comes along. (Again, somewhat of a genrilisation, but also largely actuate)

Wait till 24 hours before had, before being so sure. Like mentioned above, the final legislative sign off only happens a day or two before the event if your lucky. I do hope for the competitors sake the event goes ahead, but even more so for the organisers. Ecobound is a case in point here. They are a small business that is 100% sustained by running of 2 events a year, the Transbavians and 2Hell&Back. Neither have taken place now for 2 years. They got a lot of flack for opening entries for 2022 before having run the postponed 2020 event. I understand the reasoning behind doing this, because they needed to secure business for the future, amd could not have anticipated the duration of these restrictions. If this upcoming event is cancelled, there is serious trouble, and a family business, and at least a dozen full time people’s livelihoods is essentially stuffed.

All those suggestions I can see are coming from a good/thoughtful place, but these all have real cost implications, and are in reality a lot less feasible than they seem on the outset. Add to that, the riders won’t be happy either way. There will either be too many or too few water points, the additional water points will either be understocked, or at the wrong distance or something. Especially for events with a reasonable heritage. I’d suddenly there isn’t a support station at the top of Mother, because there is now one at the start, and one after the descend, in order to spread them, everyone will be unhappy. 

also, how do you decide where/how to space the additional water point? You can have 50% more water points, but everyone is still only going to require support at specific intervals. So the extra points will end up being oversupplied, and under-utilised, while the normal intervals will remain overrun, and then there will be that one event the authorities choose to make an example of, and cancel mid event, because the 38km water point 2 is overcrowded. It’s an impossible balancing act. 

As mentioned above, different local authorities, different measuring sticks, different risk profiles. Impossible to say because a 1day event in one municipality can go ahead, a different, multi day event spread across various municipalities is canceled, there is something malicious going on. 

Pursuit challenge is a good concept thought up to get around some of the current regulations, and it works because it is the best current compromise. It doesn’t give sponsors the exposure/interaction they want out of events, and is not long term sustainable. 

Everyone thinks this is a great idea, until a mechanical or injury happens in the middle of two support stations, or even worse a rider hits the wall in but f@rk no where, and there is no backup/medic/shuttle 5min away. Like I said, Freedom Challenge/Munga etc participants are a different type. Normal paying pax are happy with everything until something goes pear shaped, then everything is the person you paid your entry fees to’s fault 

Agreed, more people Medco just go out amd do things, whiteout relying on an events company t organise it for them, the entire industry benefits from this. On the flip side, the South African scenario and our lack of free passage/right to roam does limo this much beyond gravel bike type trips. But yes, more people should be doing mor of this. 

As mentioned above. If they actually get the permit signed off and go ahead good for them. I hope they can manage the risk effectively. If the plug is pulled a few days ahead of time, I hope the participants accept the risk they took when they paid their entry, and everyone can come to a happy conclusion. 

Addressed in the first few paragraphs. The only way you can make a statement like this is if you completely have no understanding of the industry. 
 

That said, events companies/organisers need to start thinking creatively about their next phase/business strategy. Events like we know them are dead for another 24months at least in SA. Th rest of the world is opening up. But we have to accept the limitations our elected government have put on us. I’m attending eurobike in 3 weeks time, amd it’s looking to be the sam kind of event it was in 2019. Buts in Europe, with major vaccine rollout in place, protocols being adhere to, and poeple like us,  owing from the third world, having to adhere to strict protocols in order to attend. 
 

a hotel in Zurich is getting about 600 bedniights sold, to vaccinate South Africans, just do a small number of us can attend the show in Spain. The unvaxxed are being left behind. I’m only vaccinated because I was lucky/gifted enough to spend enough time outside of SA to get myself vaccinated in a country that functions. 
 

before any normality returns to the South African realm, we need to reach 65% vaccination minimum. Before then, nothing much will change from the status quo. If you enter for an event in SA today, you need to accept the risk. But if you want there to still be similar events in 3 years time, yo need to support the guys trying to keep the industry alive noW, risk and all. 

Didn't read all of this so maybe I missed something...

But the point on lazy organizers isn't that they're lazy to organize events. It's that they're lazy to innovate. The landscape of what is possible and feasible is different. Trying to organize "traditional" events in these new circumstances is just asking for trouble. I think that's what Jewbacca was getting at... In "before covid" times, the way of doing business as a property owner made sense and the supply/demand characteristics allowed for certain things, like asking for deposits or whatever. But those circumstances don't exist anymore, and so trying to do business as if they did would just not work. The customer you're trying to serve is completely different, and so you have to approach the business in a completely new way - like not asking for deposits. 

But bike organizers seem (at least from our perspective) to be trying to run events as if we're living in the "before covid" times, and I think that's the problem.

There's a few exceptions though that I can think of. For example, some races offer a 100% refund policy if the race is cancelled for covid reasons at any time. A 100% refund policy was unheard of before, but some people innovated, and now I will literally only enter events with a 100% refund policy. I'm sure it's a hell of lot more effort from the organizers side, and they've no doubt had to be super creative to make it possible, and they probably need to delay buying stock and not commit funds until the last minute etc etc, but consequently their events will be better supported if they do take place. 

Another example is Buffelsdrift bike park had a "Big 5 challenge" where you needed to complete 5 laps of a 50km loop over a weekend. It wasn't really a race, there was no prize giving or medals, and it wasn't super well organized on the day to be honest, but it was something different, and I enjoyed it nonetheless. They did it on their own trails, didn't close the park to other riders, and only had 1 water point at around 30km into the loop. In my opinion, this is a great example of an "innovative event" which I would never have bothered with pre-covid, but under the current circumstances was willing to attend, and actually enjoyed it. 

[DonatelloOnPinarello]

5 hours ago, MORNE said:

true story...

at uni 15y ish ago we had a concept for a project in architecture school for an urban design elective. We said:...well google maps exists, why cant you have a way to pin a location and book a 'taxi' to take you between destinations.

uber is 12 years old......

 

haha

slightly OT, but also not, and damn those pesky “ethics” contracts they make us sign without reading the details (not that it helps, if you don’t agree to the T&Cs you don’t get to complete your studies)
 

It’s that pesky stupid disclaimer they make you sign, especially as an undergrad, where effectively you give the Uni full ownership of pretty much any idea you might have whilst a student.

There is at least one dude I know of who become properly well off on the back of a concept I came up with on a second year marketing assignment. He was a honours student at the time, working as a tutor under our lecturer, and I know the idea was given to him for further investigation by the Lecturer. They two of them are now business partners, and the company was funded in its startup phase by the University business incubater program at UP (Enterprise@UP).

When they just got going with the idea, I was then third year, and a handful of credits away from my undergrad degree, I registered my concerns, only for the legal eagles to point out that my “idea” was essentially the universities intellectual property, and they could utilise/expand/grow it as they see fit.

Some of the most expensive school fees I ever paid, if you look what these guys are sitting on now. I was properly bitter for a while, but then moved on. Lessons learned, and the last time I set out to overachieve in varsity assignment. From that point on I accepted 50% was a pass, 51% a distinction, and make sure to only put down ideas good enough to pass the assignment. Disrupting industries is best left for your own enrichments post varsity. I’d much rather have a case study in business studies textbook 10years from now, rather than a footnote reference in someone else’s masters thesis, or Varsity funded business success. 

[MORNE]

49 minutes ago, DonatelloOnPinarello said:

I think it’s fair to assume your involvement in the events planning industry (beyond just being a paying participant is limited). This is a little bit of a harsh rebuttal of all event planners. The rules/guidelines are a minefield to negotiate at the best of times, even more so now, and the rules also keep changing constantly. 
 

I really feel for the event organisers. It’s been a tough industry since forever, but right now it’s near impossible. Beyond pandering to the expectations/demands of their clients, they also have to get go ahead from the local government most of the time (the level at which official sign off is needed varies based on the scale of the event). The decision to cancel/go ahead very often depends on the input/feedback from the relevant authority, and this would obviously change based on what municipal authority you fall under. If the current guy in government you need to appease says no go, it’s no go. So you need to check and recheck on a daily basis wether your will likely get the go ahead come start day. No one wants to be the event organiser that cancels the day before the event. But the final sign off of the event permit is done 24-48 hours before the event kicks off, and even then, the relevant authority can change their mind if the situation changes. So organisers have no choice but to cancel if they get feedback that implies go ahead might not be given. 
 

saying this is unfair etc because event A cancelled while event B is still going ahead is also non sensical. They are needing to comply with the same vague set of rules, but administered by referees with varying interpretation of the rules. 
 

on top of that, one needs to think about whether the required “innovative solutions” will be accepted by your clientele, or not. Or if it’s viable based on your business model or not.

The fact that some events can go ahead and others can’t, is so much more complex than orginser A is lazy, Orgineser B is a champ. 
 

It will be a long time before anyone forgets Epic 2020 being cancelled literally the day before the Prologue. A week prior, the CTCT went ahead, with a record attendance. No one could have imagined what was about to come. By the time CTCT took place, we had heard of Covid, but had no idea how governments would react, or how things would be changed across the world, nor how long it would be before normality sets in. I have it on relatively good authority that the entire originising team was ready to go with the epic. But, the Western Cape government, specifically the disaster management portfolio, who are the duly appointed authority, appointed by the Premier to sign off event permits for an event like the epic, (Individual bivoucs/race villages etc amd stages also need to be signed off by the specific municipalities),decided not to sign off the event permit. Remember, this final sign off only happens somewhere between 24 and 48 hours ahead of the event, officially, in reality, it often only happens mere hours ahead of the start of an event. The MEC’s office declined signing off on the permit the Friday morning…. 24 hours before the official start. No event organiser wants to find themselves in this position. 

Understandably, everyone was up in arms after that cancellation, and I promise you, no one saw the cancellation as an easy out/lazy option. Remember, these events are run as a business. The larger events are essentially a full time job for the core team, and they need to be paid salaries for a full year. Suppliers are paid months in advance to secure services, with very strict cancellation terms. Race villages are essentially set up a couple days ahead of the event. None of the ancillary services are refundable. Catering is a perishable, the guys running the showers/toilets etc cannot find new work on short notice. The tents set up, bedding, bike wash, everything is a total loss if the “clients” in this case riders, don’t show up. The epic had the first 3 tent villages 100% set up, and the other two 80% ready to go. All of that a total loss since there was no event. Not an easy out/lazy solution for anyone. Most of the time, these events direct costs are covered by title sponsors, like ABSA, but the contracts normally state that the sponsor only pays over their contribution if the event is a success. 
 

So for any of these major events, you can understand the organisers are torn. On the one hand, they have a core team that needs to be paid salaries for a full year, come what may. On top of that, they rely on dozens of service providers that need to be paid substantial deposits in advance. With strict cancelation clauses. I hear the notion often lately that “they” have sat on our money earning interest for a year now…. That’s just not true. The events companies had racked up substantial expenses even before the time entries opened, and the sponsor contribution will only materialise after the event is run. So they carry huge risk/exposure. The sooner they cancel (once they get the hint from the relevant authority that the chances of an event permit being issued is slim, the higher refund etc they can expect form their service providers, in order to pay refunds to riders etc….

 

so, it’s all down to the relationship the organisers have with the applicable highest authority, the deal/contract they have with their sponsor, the terms of the deals they have with their service providers etc. The choice to cancel early, or wait till the government makes the call for you, is up to each organisers appetite for risk. But epic 2020 put all organisers on the safe/cautios path. 
 

I will refer back to this post a few times below. 

Unless you are in the industry, you can’t understand the implications of all of this. I take my hat off to you guys, especially if you own the properties you manage. I would have sold the “asset” being the buildings/property at a loss in April 2020 already and put the money into a different industry altogether. Yes, tourism will recover, eventually, at some time in the future. But South Africa is going to be left behind big time, most specifically due to our slow vaccine rollout. As long as we stay on red lists, while the world gradually re-opens, we will keep losing tourist traffic to our competing markets. For 10 years already, East Africa has been stealing away the clientele coming for the big 5. They have arguably even more of a colonial big “big game” heritage than us, and have a real and notable advantage over us in terms of wildlife product in a proper “wilderness” setting. The other action/adventure holiday market has been slowly but surely eroded away by the South American and Eastern European markets. Both of which are short haul flights away, and offer enormous value - without the major security issues/instabilities etc that our market is hindered by, even without bringing Covid into play. The US/UK/EU governments are less concerned with countries like Columbia/Hertzgovia-Bosnia/Pakistan/Egypt/Algeria/Morocco etc than they are with us, from a security point of view, nevermind the currently super peaceful countries like Chile/Argentina etc, and publish travel advisories accordingly. All these places offer a as good, if not better adventure tourism experience, at similar, if not better prices than we do. Our tourism industry is in deep ****, both internally thanks to our wonderful guvment, and externally due to series, open market competition. 
 

Western Cape establishment are slightly better off, due to the fact that tourists want to visit Africa and Cape Town, to many, it makes no difference if that “Africa” is the Masai Mara or Sabi Sands, as long as they get their table mountain and V&A selfie to finish off their “Africa” trip album. While this benefits the WC establishments, they are simultaneously also hardest hit by the unsustainable over investment in tourism services driven by the 2010 Soccer World Cup. Whether accomodation (especially BnB/Geusthouses), wheels operators, experiences etc. South Africa completely over invested into the industry in order to supply the rush in 2010. If any good can/does. One out of this current slump, is that it hopefully resets the industry to sustainable levels. 

 

for you personally, I hope you were one of those that was there before 2010, and is still there, sustainably after the reset. 

I think it’s fair to assume Freedom Challenge participants are a very different client to your typical weekend warrior, Sani2C, W2W etc etc. 
 

These are tough dudes and duddettes that mostly prefer being 100% self reliant. They are just happy to be there and to make it to the end in one piece. There’s a reason no one is doing the FC to raise “awareness” for XYZ cause, or riding in a CHOC cow suite, or expecting any kind of “recognition” beyond a polyester finishers blanket. They don’t expect manicured trails, overstocked fuelling stations catering for every variant of special dietary requirement, and a gender inclusive ablution arrangements. They would be happy to accept any concession the orginser needs to make in order to allow the event to take place, and would actually probably be happy to pay more, for even less support, just to say they rode the fully unsupported FC. (I admit this is somewhat of a generalisation, but I don’t think I’m far from the truth.) 

 

in contrast,the typical S2C or W2W rider is going to write a strongly worded review on the vents FB page, as well as Hello Peter and the huisgenoot, if the water pressure in the communal shower isn’t quite up to standard, never mind the Temperature of said water. Also, their better be a representative selection of vegan+Banting+halaal/Kosher, high protein, low carb snack options at the midday feed stop, as well as a suitable sugar free, gender neutral energy drink a every checkpoint,  and a grass fed organic recovery shake at the bar at each overnight stop, to enjoy while having your post (65km, fully supported) days ride.

Every single finishers blanket owner deserves a modicum of respect as a human being. 95% of the finishers medals holders of every one of the regular mass participation events is an entitled prick, riding on a fully paid entry sponsored by the company they are only loyal to until a better offer comes along. (Again, somewhat of a genrilisation, but also largely actuate)

Wait till 24 hours before had, before being so sure. Like mentioned above, the final legislative sign off only happens a day or two before the event if your lucky. I do hope for the competitors sake the event goes ahead, but even more so for the organisers. Ecobound is a case in point here. They are a small business that is 100% sustained by running of 2 events a year, the Transbavians and 2Hell&Back. Neither have taken place now for 2 years. They got a lot of flack for opening entries for 2022 before having run the postponed 2020 event. I understand the reasoning behind doing this, because they needed to secure business for the future, amd could not have anticipated the duration of these restrictions. If this upcoming event is cancelled, there is serious trouble, and a family business, and at least a dozen full time people’s livelihoods is essentially stuffed.

All those suggestions I can see are coming from a good/thoughtful place, but these all have real cost implications, and are in reality a lot less feasible than they seem on the outset. Add to that, the riders won’t be happy either way. There will either be too many or too few water points, the additional water points will either be understocked, or at the wrong distance or something. Especially for events with a reasonable heritage. I’d suddenly there isn’t a support station at the top of Mother, because there is now one at the start, and one after the descend, in order to spread them, everyone will be unhappy. 

also, how do you decide where/how to space the additional water point? You can have 50% more water points, but everyone is still only going to require support at specific intervals. So the extra points will end up being oversupplied, and under-utilised, while the normal intervals will remain overrun, and then there will be that one event the authorities choose to make an example of, and cancel mid event, because the 38km water point 2 is overcrowded. It’s an impossible balancing act. 

As mentioned above, different local authorities, different measuring sticks, different risk profiles. Impossible to say because a 1day event in one municipality can go ahead, a different, multi day event spread across various municipalities is canceled, there is something malicious going on. 

Pursuit challenge is a good concept thought up to get around some of the current regulations, and it works because it is the best current compromise. It doesn’t give sponsors the exposure/interaction they want out of events, and is not long term sustainable. 

Everyone thinks this is a great idea, until a mechanical or injury happens in the middle of two support stations, or even worse a rider hits the wall in but f@rk no where, and there is no backup/medic/shuttle 5min away. Like I said, Freedom Challenge/Munga etc participants are a different type. Normal paying pax are happy with everything until something goes pear shaped, then everything is the person you paid your entry fees to’s fault 

Agreed, more people Medco just go out amd do things, whiteout relying on an events company t organise it for them, the entire industry benefits from this. On the flip side, the South African scenario and our lack of free passage/right to roam does limo this much beyond gravel bike type trips. But yes, more people should be doing mor of this. 

As mentioned above. If they actually get the permit signed off and go ahead good for them. I hope they can manage the risk effectively. If the plug is pulled a few days ahead of time, I hope the participants accept the risk they took when they paid their entry, and everyone can come to a happy conclusion. 

Addressed in the first few paragraphs. The only way you can make a statement like this is if you completely have no understanding of the industry. 
 

That said, events companies/organisers need to start thinking creatively about their next phase/business strategy. Events like we know them are dead for another 24months at least in SA. Th rest of the world is opening up. But we have to accept the limitations our elected government have put on us. I’m attending eurobike in 3 weeks time, amd it’s looking to be the sam kind of event it was in 2019. Buts in Europe, with major vaccine rollout in place, protocols being adhere to, and poeple like us,  owing from the third world, having to adhere to strict protocols in order to attend. 
 

a hotel in Zurich is getting about 600 bedniights sold, to vaccinate South Africans, just do a small number of us can attend the show in Spain. The unvaxxed are being left behind. I’m only vaccinated because I was lucky/gifted enough to spend enough time outside of SA to get myself vaccinated in a country that functions. 
 

before any normality returns to the South African realm, we need to reach 65% vaccination minimum. Before then, nothing much will change from the status quo. If you enter for an event in SA today, you need to accept the risk. But if you want there to still be similar events in 3 years time, yo need to support the guys trying to keep the industry alive noW, risk and all. 

ive come to appreciate the unique insights you share recently but i’ll be dead honest…this post was the epitomy of TLDR????. 

proper text-wall-of-death.

 

[Mountain Bru]

45 minutes ago, DonatelloOnPinarello said:

All those suggestions I can see are coming from a good/thoughtful place, but these all have real cost implications, and are in reality a lot less feasible than they seem on the outset. Add to that, the riders won’t be happy either way. There will either be too many or too few water points, the additional water points will either be understocked, or at the wrong distance or something. Especially for events with a reasonable heritage. I’d suddenly there isn’t a support station at the top of Mother, because there is now one at the start, and one after the descend, in order to spread them, everyone will be unhappy. 

also, how do you decide where/how to space the additional water point? You can have 50% more water points, but everyone is still only going to require support at specific intervals. So the extra points will end up being oversupplied, and under-utilised, while the normal intervals will remain overrun, and then there will be that one event the authorities choose to make an example of, and cancel mid event, because the 38km water point 2 is overcrowded. It’s an impossible balancing act. 

This makes me think of this:

I'm sure every proposed solution will have potential problems. And it is extremely unlikely that anything that's implemented will work 100% on the first attempt. But the point is to try things, get feedback, improve, and try again. 

Yes, maybe if you have more water points, certain ones will still be overcrowded. But maybe they won't be. Who knows? Maybe at the top of the big climb where everyone always stops is a good place to have another waterpoint 2km down the road and encourage people to freewheel down the hill a bit rather than stopping immediately. Yes, stocking those points might be harder, but it's not impossible. 

Maybe having "non-timed" neutral sections in longer races will help to thin the field and prevent build up at waterpoints? Who knows?

Maybe having "food only", "water only" and "sports drink only" water points will help to reduce congestion so the dude that wants to down a cup of coke isn't held up by the guy that wants an energy bar and to fill his bottle. 

Things might cost more, communicate that and charge 20% more on your entry fee. If it's obvious that the extra money is needed to make sure the event takes place, I don't think you'll struggle to get entries, especially when every other race is being cancelled.

The point though, is that there are 100s of ways to change things up to give things a better chance of working if you really want to. Or you can just postpone the event.

 

[Mountain Bru]

35 minutes ago, DIPSLICK said:

pre this madness happening I was also leaning towards a few mates, wives driving ahead with support, stop overs and just cruising having fun

I do this every December with a few friends as an end of year "switch off".

Million times cheaper than a stage race, stop and eat watermelon on the side of the road when it gets hot, make a sneaky coffee when the mood strikes, sneaky sprints on random little climbs just for pretend bragging rights, no one shouting at you to hold your line..... It's by far better than any race I've done. If I could do this more often, I'd pick it over any race (Hence my suggestion of "bike packing" races, which are basically just these kinds of trips but someone else organizes it for you and you don't need a wife)

For example, this is one of the best water points I've ever stopped at:

Edited August 11, 2021 by Mountain Bru

[DonatelloOnPinarello]

1 hour ago, Mountain Bru said:

 

I hear you and agree to a certain extent extent. But you need to realise that a lot of these event organisers are also still under a real or perceived obligation to offer the events their clients booked and paid for for 2020. They have rolled it over at least once, in many cases now twice. They can neither afford to outright cancel, which would require them to pay significant refunds to some extent, or to not offer the event as originally advertised, which will cause entitled “Karen” types to insist on a refund because the service provided doesn’t match the service they were sold.

Every roll over comes with certain substantial costs, but the organisers need to try put on some sort of event that at least resembles the initial event they sold their clients, and allows them to salvage as much as possible from the amounts already paid to service providers - assuming the service provider in question is still in existence by the time the event actually takes place. But if you charge a fee to support the rollover to new dates, you get lambasted. 
 

im sorry for probably sounding a bit preachy on the topic and maybe defending event organisers too vehemently, but the past 18 months has been seriously tough on everyone, I know. I thank my lucky stars I have diversified interests and wasn’t dependent on a tourism or events related income, but many of my friends and associates are. I have attended more zoom funerals for suicides this year than I have for COVID related deaths. Two this week actually, 1 a suicide, 1 a person who very likely would have survived an illness had they had access private healthcare, but we’re forced to give up medical aid as a result of lockdowns/loss of business and needing to choose between feeding their kids, or paying medical aid. As ironic as all of this is, at least they had the sense to maintain their life insurance premiums. So now the kids are sorted for the next few years, but fatherless. This unfortunately is not an isolated or out of the ordinary occurrence lately.

I am still entering events that I enjoyed in the past, as long as I can afford to. If they get cancelled and I lose, I see it as an investment into the long term sustainability of the industry. I have entered more events this past year than I have since 2016. I’m sure I will be trying to sell a lot of entries in 18 months time once all the events can hopefully start taking place normally, and I won’t be able to attend them all.

Edited August 11, 2021 by DonatelloOnPinarello