Current Bike Pricing vs. Value

[Wayne pudding Mol]

2 minutes ago, Benjamin said:

Wayne

Sl topic change but did you ever manage to sell your magnificent “village  bike “ that the whole hub had a hand in choosing the bits ?

That would be a good example of bikes holding value ?

 

That was when this pricing madness really took off - I had collected parts for 2 years so many parts were pre boom. I sold off the frame and excess parts and probably made a 20 percent profit without ripping anyone off. For example I had one of the first AXS in SA and ended up selling the mechanical XX1 which covered the cost

the irony is that I ended up back on the exact bike I sold to start the project 

I still wish I’d got the Mondraker 

[IceCreamMan]

I was in cycle lab Fourways earlier today. Not been in ZA for 5 years. The pricing made my eyes water compared to when I lived in ZA.

I suspect this might be a global trend but it appears to be more noticeable here. Given that the rand has devalued about 25 percent in that period goes a fair way to explaining the price increases. 
 

My particular model bike has increased in cost by about 15 percent since I bought it in 2018. Components pretty much the same. It’s everywhere just more noticeable in za than uK. ( and just my observation which is not scientific) 

[Lexx]

On 4/7/2022 at 8:38 AM, jcza said:

ZAR is at same level as 2015 so it is not ZAR/USD rate resulting in higher prices. Transport costs are way higher and I'm not sure about duties. 

PS: Its not only cycling, check the price of golf clubs!! 

True!!!. That's why my back Operation are actually a blessing in disguise 🤞. Was playing golf a lot... But finally after almost 14 months of physio and just walking to keep fit, i can start cycling again in August. But now i have to buy everything from scratch again: Road Bike, bibs, shoes etc. Gave everything away for free. Thought my sporting days were over.. That was one huge costly mistake..

Guess no more "Woensdae is braai dae" for me.. 🙄 

[IceCreamMan]

On 4/7/2022 at 8:38 AM, jcza said:

ZAR is at same level as 2015 so it is not ZAR/USD rate resulting in higher prices. Transport costs are way higher and I'm not sure about duties. 

PS: Its not only cycling, check the price of golf clubs!! 

This is not true at all.

at the start of 2015 the rand was around 11.50 and then dropped a lot in late 2015. Bikes were already in za at low rates. Bikes in za now would be procured at around 15 to 16. The devaluation of the rand has definitely been a factor  

 

[dave303e]

On 4/6/2022 at 10:16 PM, JS Scott said:

Right?! Funny you mention that, myself is busy with getting a few dirtbikes restored. At this rate a top of the line KTM 300 is cheaper than the equivalent MTB. 

...and a 2018 KTM 300 is a lot more relevant than a 2018 mtb in terms of latest development/performance and has about 10x as many moving parts. 

On 4/7/2022 at 10:28 AM, Frosty said:

Shipping prices have gone through the roof. Before covid, it was about $1600 for a 40ft container.
It's been hovering closer to $12k-$15k for the same container for the last year. My suppliers in Europe say it went as high as $30k for a container from China to Europe and they ship many more containers that what we do.

Components/Groupsets are small, but there are thousands of them in a container.
Frames and wheels take up more space, so perhaps hundreds in a container rather than thousands

Then there's a shortage in supply and a higher demand, so it's a seller's market.

 

Off topic,
I bought butter last night at Checkers, R49.99 on special (providing you have their "loyalty" card. The everyday price is R64.95. If they can sell it for that special price, they are making margin, so why sell it for 30% more? It's a rhetorical question.

Just some FYI in that, farmers are still getting around R5,50 per litre for raw milk. That milk gets the cream removed to be sold as cream and the milk diluted and sold as "full cream" at nearly R15 a liter to you. 

On 4/7/2022 at 10:43 AM, Headshot said:

I haven't dabbled in motorbikes for years until very recently. Various things have struck me   - the weight - they are mostly steel and heavy duty aluminium. Some parts have got lighter but for the most part, they weigh pretty close to what they did 30 years ago and they are so heavy compared to a bicycle. Secondly, the reliability.

The bike I am restoring is a 33 year adventure style bike and the rear shock still has life left in it - no leaks, minimal shaft wear and it still goes in an out like it should. Compare that to your swiss watch MTB shock.

The swingarm is steel and runs on a not too big main pivot bolt. The bearings are still totally smooth and quiet. Sure the swingarm is rusty but that's a relatively easy refurb if you're prepared to do some work on it.  Leaky fork - buy some generic fork seals and oil for a couple of hundred rand and they will last another 20 years. The same seals for  a MTB will cost you a few hundred rand more.

 

Forks seals, chains, brake pads, tyres etc are all far better priced in terms of what you get than mtb equivalents. Just take the number of highly precise moving parts in a motorbike and you realise how much the mtb industry is tearing the ring. Remember there are 2 main manufacturers of parts and all have a similar line, so the volume of shimano and sram parts being made is ridiculous in comparison to the likes of motorcycle manufacturers and engine parts. This should make them cheaper. Apart from the fact they are not much more complicated. I do believe this monopoly is part of the issue though, chances are you will run Sram or Shimano and they can set the bar for pricing...

When you start looking at tools for maintenance it is also blatant. A set of spanners, pliers, allenkey/torx , a chain breaker and some screwdrivers and you can do almost all running maintenance on a motorbike. Then on your MTB- chain whips, lock ring tools, bb tools, chain wear measures etc etc. I have 1 special tool for my honda, to pull the flywheel, the rest came in a standard tool box or from a standard hardware store.

 

Sadly 14 years ago I was using mtb for fitness for enduro and as a cheaper riding alternate... 

[The Ouzo]

2 minutes ago, dave303e said:

...and a 2018 KTM 300 is a lot more relevant than a 2018 mtb in terms of latest development/performance and has about 10x as many moving parts. 

Just some FYI in that, farmers are still getting around R5,50 per litre for raw milk. That milk gets the cream removed to be sold as cream and the milk diluted and sold as "full cream" at nearly R15 a liter to you. 

Forks seals, chains, brake pads, tyres etc are all far better priced in terms of what you get than mtb equivalents. Just take the number of highly precise moving parts in a motorbike and you realise how much the mtb industry is tearing the ring. Remember there are 2 main manufacturers of parts and all have a similar line, so the volume of shimano and sram parts being made is ridiculous in comparison to the likes of motorcycle manufacturers and engine parts. This should make them cheaper. Apart from the fact they are not much more complicated. I do believe this monopoly is part of the issue though, chances are you will run Sram or Shimano and they can set the bar for pricing...

When you start looking at tools for maintenance it is also blatant. A set of spanners, pliers, allenkey/torx , a chain breaker and some screwdrivers and you can do almost all running maintenance on a motorbike. Then on your MTB- chain whips, lock ring tools, bb tools, chain wear measures etc etc. I have 1 special tool for my honda, to pull the flywheel, the rest came in a standard tool box or from a standard hardware store.

 

Sadly 14 years ago I was using mtb for fitness for enduro and as a cheaper riding alternate... 

whilst you're not completely wrong, you also need to take into account that on a bicycle there is a greater need for efficiency and lower weight, both of these cost money in R&D and exotic materials made from the frozen condensation droplets on a unicorns fart.

[Headshot]

I think a serious bit of economic research would be required to accurately compare moto and bike value. I'm sure if you race MX bikes the costs are massive - engine rebuilds and so on? The answer i always get is that with all that weight on a moto comes the robust longevity which is why a moto shock and forks with hard chromed stanchions don't need such regular rebuilds and can last for 30 years. Seems almost unbelievable doesn't it.

[dave303e]

38 minutes ago, ouzo said:

whilst you're not completely wrong, you also need to take into account that on a bicycle there is a greater need for efficiency and lower weight, both of these cost money in R&D and exotic materials made from the frozen condensation droplets on a unicorns fart.

2022 KTM 250f motor weighs 26kg and produces 39hp at 14000rpm. Lots of unobtanium in there.

2 minutes ago, Headshot said:

I think a serious bit of economic research would be required to accurately compare moto and bike value. I'm sure if you race MX bikes the costs are massive - engine rebuilds and so on? The answer i always get is that with all that weight on a moto comes the robust longevity which is why a moto shock and forks with hard chromed stanchions don't need such regular rebuilds and can last for 30 years. Seems almost unbelievable doesn't it.

If you do an engine rebuild before the engine blows up, then you in for less than an XX1 cassette, chain, bottom bracket and jockey wheels- if you can do the work yourself. Scary thought on an engine that can rev to 14000rpm. 

[Headshot]

5 minutes ago, dave303e said:

2022 KTM 250f motor weighs 26kg and produces 39hp at 14000rpm. Lots of unobtanium in there.

If you do an engine rebuild before the engine blows up, then you in for less than an XX1 cassette, chain, bottom bracket and jockey wheels- if you can do the work yourself. Scary thought on an engine that can rev to 14000rpm. 

Back in the day when a I had a CR450, it came with a a bunch of engine spares, like a piston, rings and gaskets. 

[Blokman]

On 4/7/2022 at 10:41 AM, Dexter-morgan said:

We import magnets on a big scale and the shippers hate heavy containers so they hit us 

And they stick to the ship's deck.

[Paul Ruinaard]

I was looking at some of the prices on the bike sites for components the other day and it was like someones had suspended reality.

Evobikes:

R 86k for a Shimano Dura Ace Di2 groupset ??????????

As if that wasn't enough now you can buy the new rainbow coloured cassette for R 9495 which has the blurb  "Eagle Colorsystem lets the cassette and chain express the look of the bike. Available in Gold, Rainbow and all-new Copper". 

Jeez i can do the same with a couple of rattle cans and newspaper for R 50 and then have a graffiti expression session on the wall behind me and still have some leftover....

Truly pulling the piss with these prices. Never waste a good crisis.

 

 

[Skeletor1]

How do people in SA afford this? How do bike shops keep afloat with pricing like this, or is it only me?

[The Ouzo]

11 minutes ago, Skeletor1 said:

How do people in SA afford this? How do bike shops keep afloat with pricing like this, or is it only me?

The last 2 lines of that advert is how people buy these 

[Shebeen]

2 hours ago, Skeletor1 said:

How do people in SA afford this? How do bike shops keep afloat with pricing like this, or is it only me?

There's conservatively a billion rand in corruption leaking out of Eskom each month, tenderpreneurs along for the ride

[Jewbacca]

Do bikes like this make up a majority of the market?

My guess would be no. How many cheap/mid range bikes move monthly vs 120k plus bikes?

The nuts and bolts of the industry has always been spare parts, servicing and 'upgrades' where TIME is billable.

Every time bike ranges are released, the outrage over the top 3 models and the pricing always makes me chuckle, as the importers probably only bring in a handful of them.

I would love to see the actual sales numbers of what part of the bike market moves and how.

Financing obviously plays a huge roll these days too.

But my guess would be the 'flagship' bikes sent out for top line reviews don't keep any bike shop in business and don't contribute hugely to the overall bike industry in terms of sales numbers

[DieselnDust]

On 4/6/2022 at 7:55 PM, Kevin Simon said:

Being new to the sport, I can’t really comment on price increases, though I can agree that anything to do with cycling has a hefty price tag. 

An interesting note that I do not understand, why do some of you say you updated your insurance because the price went up? When I insured my 2 bikes, they just wanted to know what those bikes cost new, not what a similar bike costs now. For example, I just got a 2019 SLR 6, they wanted to know what that bike cost new, not the SLR 7 or whatever the closest equivalent, or should I be insuring for that price?

you can insure it for what you paid nand thats what the insurance pays out minus excess

or 

you an insure for replacement value which carries an annual premium increase as prices increase but the insurer pays out the price of a similar bike at current pricing