Lookout requested Blouberg area

[marko35s]

If you catch someone in the process of committing a crime and you take action against him to prevent the rime, that is fully within your rights - it's self-defence.

 

If you catch him afterwards and do something to him, you are committing a crime yourself. Difference that seems to elude many.

 

Technically it isn't self defence unless you are in danger and are forced to defend yourself in a 'proportional' manner, but I get your drift.

Having said that if it had been my wife this happened to I would not let it rest.

[MTBeer]

while I'm sure we'd all like to bliksem this lowlife scum, what happens when you or your family get wrongly accused/identified and some okes with baseball bats come a knockin'? it's a fine line between mob justice and total anarchy.

[Flowta]

If you catch someone in the process of committing a crime and you take action against him to prevent the rime, that is fully within your rights - it's self-defence.

 

If you catch him afterwards and do something to him, you are committing a crime yourself. Difference that seems to elude many.

 

 

Exactly

[T-Bob]

Nothing like a good honest handbag scrapping contest on the forum...

 

To the OP. Great work on the tracking down and identifying the guy, even better you took it to the law. Fingers crossed you get a good result and the guy gets sorted out.

 

Right back to lighting pitch forks and gnashing of teeth. I'd imagine the vollunteers on local neighbour hoodwatch patrols will be going up with all the moering and blikseming going on here. Get out there lads and hunt them down.

[DIPSLICK]

while I'm sure we'd all like to bliksem this lowlife scum, what happens when you or your family get wrongly accused/identified and some okes with baseball bats come a knockin'? it's a fine line between mob justice and total anarchy.

agreed but if the oke is standing in front of my recently beat up wife and she says "YES THATS THE LOW LIFE SKUM THAT HIT ME" THEN WHAT???

[MTBeer]

agreed but if the oke is standing in front of my recently beat up wife and she says "YES THATS THE LOW LIFE SKUM THAT HIT ME" THEN WHAT???

yes, fair enough that is your response to an obvious crime, but what happens when a less clear thinking individual reckons he has enough evidence to take action. see the problem? you have to draw the line somewhere.

[Charsky]

I dont want to drift off topic here, but would it be reasonable to say that in a situation like this an ordinary citizen is allowed to make a "citizens arrest" ?

 

Citizens' Arrest In South Africa

 

Any South African citizen may execute an arrest for "any conspiracy, incitement, or attempt to commit any offense" ^[2|3|5], pertaining to any Schedule 1 offense, as determined by THE CRIMINAL PROCEDURES ACT OF 1977, Act 51 ^[2|3], and THE CRIMINAL LAW AMENDMENT ACT OF 2007, Section 3 and 4.

 

Lawful Citizens' Arrest

THE SOUTH AFRICAN CRIMINAL PROCEDURES ACT OF 1977, ACT 51, SECTION 42, says concerning an "Arrest by private person without warrant":

1. ANY PRIVATE PERSON MAY WITHOUT WARRANT ARREST ANY PERSON - (A) WHO COMMITS OR ATTEMPTS TO COMMIT IN HIS PRESENCE OR WHOM HE REASONABLY SUSPECTS OF HAVING COMMITTED AN OFFENSE REFERRED TO IN SCHEDULE 1; (B) WHOM HE REASONABLY BELIEVES TO HAVE COMMITTED ANY OFFENSE AND TO BE ESCAPING FROM AND TO BE FRESHLY PURSUED BY A PERSON WHOM SUCH PRIVATE PERSON REASONABLY BELIEVES TO HAVE AUTHORITY TO ARREST THAT PERSON FOR THAT OFFENSE; © WHOM HE IS BY ANY LAW AUTHORIZED TO ARREST WITHOUT WARRANT IN RESPECT OF ANY OFFENSE SPECIFIED IN THAT LAW; (D) WHOM HE SEES ENGAGED IN AN AFFRAY [F1]; 2. ANY PRIVATE PERSON WHO MAY WITHOUT WARRANT ARREST ANY PERSON UNDER SUBSECTION 1 - (A) MAY FORTHWITH PURSUE THAT PERSON, AND ANY OTHER PRIVATE PERSON TO WHOM THE PURPOSE OF THE PURSUIT HAS BEEN MADE KNOWN, MAY JOIN AND ASSIST THEREIN. 3. THE OWNER, LAWFUL OCCUPIER, OR PERSON IN CHARGE OF PROPERTY ON OR IN RESPECT OF WHICH ANY PERSON IS FOUND COMMITTING ANY OFFENSE, AND ANY PERSON AUTHORIZED THERETO BY SUCH OWNER, OCCUPIER OR PERSON IN CHARGE, MAY WITHOUT WARRANT ARREST THE PERSON SO FOUND.

 

THE SOUTH AFRICAN CRIMINAL PROCEDURES ACT OF 1977, ACT 51, SECTION 39, says concerning the "Manner and effect of arrest":

1. AN ARREST SHALL BE EFFECTED WITH OR WITHOUT A WARRANT, AND, UNLESS THE PERSON TO BE ARRESTED SUBMITS TO CUSTODY, BY ACTUALLY TOUCHING HIS BODY OR, IF THE CIRCUMSTANCES SO REQUIRE, BY FORCIBLY CONFINING HIS BODY. 2. THE PERSON EFFECTING AN ARREST SHALL, AT THE TIME OF EFFECTING THE ARREST OR IMMEDIATELY AFTER EFFECTING THE ARREST, INFORM THE ARRESTED PERSON OF THE CAUSE OF THE ARREST AND, IN CASE OF AN ARREST EFFECTED BY VIRTUE OF A WARRANT, UPON THE DEMAND OF THE PERSON ARRESTED HAND HIM A COPY OF THE WARRANT. 3. THE EFFECT OF AN ARREST SHALL BE THAT THE PERSON ARRESTED SHALL BE IN LAWFUL CUSTODY AND THAT HE SHALL BE DETAINED IN CUSTODY UNTIL HE IS LAWFULLY DISCHARGED OR RELEASED FROM CUSTODY.

 

 

Unlawful Citizens' Arrest

THE SOUTH AFRICAN CRIMINAL PROCEDURES ACT OF 1977, ACT 51, SECTION 53, says concerning the "Saving of civil law rights and liability":

SUBJECT TO THE PROVISIONS OF SECTION 46 AND 331, NO PROVISION OF THIS CHAPTER RELATING TO ARREST SHALL BE CONSTRUED AS REMOVING OR DIMINISHING ANY CIVIL RIGHT OR LIABILITY OF ANY PERSON IN RESPECT OF A WRONGFUL OR MALICIOUS ARREST.

 

 

Examples

Always take into consideration that you may only execute Citizens' Arrest for Schedule 1 offenses, and no other.

» Sodomy is NOT a Schedule 1 offense.*** ^[2]

» Prostitution is NOT a Schedule 1 offense. ^[3]

» Drug-dealing is NOT a Schedule 1 offense. ^[2|5]

» Public drunkenness is NOT a Schedule 1 offense. ^[3]

» Dumping rubbish is NOT a Schedule 1 offense. ^[3]

» Littering is NOT a Schedule 1 offense. ^[3]

» Urinating in public is NOT a Schedule 1 offense. ^[3]

» Abusive language is NOT a Schedule 1 offense. ^[3]

 

Schedule 1 Offenses

 

» Treason ^[2|3|5]: "serious acts of betrayal of one's sovereign or nation" ^[4]

» Sedition ^[2|3|5]: "to inspire insurrection" ^[6]

» Murder ^[2|3|5]: "the unlawful killing of another human being with intent" ^[7]

» Culpable Homicide ^[2|3|5]: "the purposeful, reckless, or negligent (but not necessarily illegal) act of killing a human being" ^[8|9]

» Rape ^[2|3|5] or Compelled Rape ^[3|5]: as contemplated in THE CRIMINAL LAW AMENDMENT ACT OF 2007, Section 3, concerning Sexual Offenses and Related Matters. ^[3]

» Indecent Assault ^[2], Sexual Assault, Compelled Sexual Assault, or Compelled Self-Sexual Assault ^[3|5]: as contemplated in THE CRIMINAL LAW AMENDMENT ACT OF 2007, Section 5 and 7, concerning Sexual Offenses and Related Matters. ^[3]

» Any sexual offense against a child or the mentally disabled ^[3|5]: as contemplated in THE CRIMINAL LAW AMENDMENT ACT OF 2007, Section 3 and 4, concerning Sexual Offenses and Related Matters. ^[3]

 

» Human Trafficking for sexual reasons ^[3|5]: as contemplated in THE CRIMINAL LAW AMENDMENT ACT OF 2007, Section 71, concerning Sexual Offenses and Related Matters. ^[3]

 

» Bestiality ^[2|3|5|10]: "the practice of sex between humans and animals" ^[11]

 

» Theft**** ^[2|3|5]: "the illegal taking of another person's property without that person's freely-given consent" ^[12], by stealth or fraud ^[13]

 

» Robbery ^[2|3|5]: "the crime of seizing property through violence or intimidation" ^[13]

 

» Knowingly receiving stolen goods ^[2|3|5]

» Kidnapping ^[2|3|5] or Childstealing ^[2|3]: the taking away, or asportation, of any individual, by force or fraud, against his or her will, whether an adult or a minor. ^[14]

» Fraud [2|3|5]: "an intentional deception made for personal gain or to damage another individual" ^[16].

» Public Violence ^[2|3|5] or Assault ^[2|3|5]: especially when a dangerous wound is inflicted. ^[2|3]

» Arson ^[2|3|5]: "the crime of deliberately and maliciously setting fire to structures or wildland areas" ^[15]

» Malicious damage or injury to Property ^[2|3|5]:

» Breaking and entering any Property, with the intent to commit and offense**** ^[2|3]:

» Forgery, or knowingly using either, forged documents ^[2|3|5] or coinage ^[2|3]: "the process of making, adapting, or imitating objects, statistics, or documents, with the intent to deceive" ^[17]

 

» Intimidation [2|5]: "behavior which would cause a person of ordinary sensibilities fear of injury or harm" ^[18]

 

Summary

AUTHORIZED TO ARREST

 

» Any South African citizen may arrest anyone who commits or attempts to commit a Schedule 1 offense.

 

» Any South African citizens may arrest anyone who he/she reasonably suspects of having committed a Schedule 1 offense.

 

» Any South African citizen may arrest anyone attempting to escape a security officer, police officer, detective, or national security officer.

 

» Any South African citizen may arrest anyone engaged in fighting.

 

» Any South African citizen may pursue anyone who committed a Schedule 1 offense, and may authorize anyone else to assist them.

 

» Any South African citizen may arrest anyone on any property they own, rent, or guard. *

 

» Any South African citizen may physically subdue a suspect, when resisting arrest.

 

» South African citizens "are privately liable if [they] perform an unlawful arrest" ^[3]

 

» Always remember that while South African citizens may not execute a Citizens' Arrest for Schedule 2 Offenses (except when duly authorized to do so by a Police Official), they may still offer eye witness testimony in Court.

 

NOTIFICATION OF ARREST

 

» Any South African citizen must inform the suspect of the reason for his or her arrest, either while performing it, or immediately thereafter.

 

FOLLOWING THE ARREST

 

» From the moment of arrest, the suspect has the right to consult a lawyer.** ^[1]

 

» Apart from giving his or her name and address, the suspect has "the right to remain silent". He or she is under no legal obligation to answer any questions, whatsoever, until his or her lawyer is present. ^[1]

 

» No South African citizen may release any suspect, unless lawfully discharged or released from custody by a Police Official.

[scotty]

Next time i notice someone selling dodgy items in the for sale section i'm gonna make a citizens arrest

 

Forgery, or knowingly using either, forged documents ^[2|3|5] or coinage ^[2|3]: "the process of making, adapting, or imitating objects, statistics, or documents, with the intent to deceive" ^[17]

[GBguy]

agreed but if the oke is standing in front of my recently beat up wife and she says "YES THATS THE LOW LIFE SKUM THAT HIT ME" THEN WHAT???

There was a case just last week where a man was released from prison after many years, when his daughter admitted that he hadn't raped her after all. I'm not suggesting the lady in this case is mistaken - just saying that even a direct accusation needs to be tested.

 

I can feel my blood rising when I picture this buffoon beating up a woman, and I can imagine myself doing all the things that the more hot-blooded members here are talking about. But I know it wouldn't be justice - it would be vengeance, and an expression of how I feel about all the a**hole motorists who have endangered my life over the years.

 

But if there's a place for vengeance (and I'm not saying there is ) it is after the law has failed us, not before.

[DPG]

Many years ago my wife was recovering from a back op so was bedridden, my domestics ex husband gained access into our property and proceeded to beat the domestic. After a frantic call from the missus I managed to get home while he was still in the house, the nearest object to me was a cast iron steak pan. I hit him only twice with the pan, (believe me I wanted to go bos on his arse!) Then put him into the boot of my car and took him to the nearest Police station, laid a charge and then returned home to get the domestic patched up.

02h30 the following morning 5 police officers arrested me for assault with intent to do bodily harm, I had a wife who couldn't get out of bed to assist at all, appeared in court the following afternoon and was released without bail for wrongful arrest. Scariest 15 hours of my life!!

In a nutshell, I agree totally with the sentiments of teaching the arsewipe a lesson or 2, just be extremely cautious as in my experience the law does not always protect the victim!

[Help.Me.]

Many years ago my wife was recovering from a back op so was bedridden, my domestics ex husband gained access into our property and proceeded to beat the domestic. After a frantic call from the missus I managed to get home while he was still in the house, the nearest object to me was a cast iron steak pan. I hit him only twice with the pan, (believe me I wanted to go bos on his arse!) Then put him into the boot of my car and took him to the nearest Police station, laid a charge and then returned home to get the domestic patched up.

02h30 the following morning 5 police officers arrested me for assault with intent to do bodily harm, I had a wife who couldn't get out of bed to assist at all, appeared in court the following afternoon and was released without bail for wrongful arrest. Scariest 15 hours of my life!!

In a nutshell, I agree totally with the sentiments of teaching the arsewipe a lesson or 2, just be extremely cautious as in my experience the law does not always protect the victim!

 

i hope you sued the clothes off their backs???

[Caerus]

Many years ago my wife was recovering from a back op so was bedridden, my domestics ex husband gained access into our property and proceeded to beat the domestic. After a frantic call from the missus I managed to get home while he was still in the house, the nearest object to me was a cast iron steak pan. I hit him only twice with the pan, (believe me I wanted to go bos on his arse!) Then put him into the boot of my car and took him to the nearest Police station, laid a charge and then returned home to get the domestic patched up.

02h30 the following morning 5 police officers arrested me for assault with intent to do bodily harm, I had a wife who couldn't get out of bed to assist at all, appeared in court the following afternoon and was released without bail for wrongful arrest. Scariest 15 hours of my life!!

In a nutshell, I agree totally with the sentiments of teaching the arsewipe a lesson or 2, just be extremely cautious as in my experience the law does not always protect the victim!

This for me is one of the biggest threats to a complete breakdown in society as we know it - stupid human rights, what about the rights of the victims(whatever the circumstances)

[BlinkFan]

Think TheHub needs a boxing ring somewhere on the site. So when hubbers start bitching at each other over something unrelated they can just go there and beat the living piss out of each other while not polluting a serious thread like this. I'm actually quite interested in where this goes, but don't feel like reading through all this gunk anymore.

 

[awesme]

def gonna be interesting to hear what happens here,

 

Pretty sure justice will be applied, be that via the court or the pipe in the back street.

 

G

[DIPSLICK]

A couple of definitions:

 

Tree Hugger - someone who is concerned about the enviroment and enviromental issues - that`s me.

 

Someone who is concerned over a despicable criminal`s rights and the fear these might be compromised by vengeance seeking victims = Limp wristed, slack jawed, drooling, mentally weak, soft bellied, crosseyed, knockneed, dribbling left wing liberal. Definitly not me !!

NICKC TO YOU I SAY SORRY SIR, TREE HUGGER :blush: AND WELL DONE ON SAVING OUR ENVIROMENT

 

i am however sure you know what i am implying :ph34r:

[Wyatt Earp]

But let me clarify to the tree huggers and umbrella carriers.

 

I don't want to klap this culprit to turn around so I can say "Justice Served"

That is the last of my reasoning to get up close.

 

I want a piece of this nice old beefcake because he beats on woman.

Any man who can hit a woman, must pluck up the courage that he knows how to fight like a man.

 

So forget the cops, forget justice and mob mentality.

Forget the street , schoolyard and some back alley .

I would even go as far to want a controlled environment so he can show me how he hits a woman, I would like to see that.

 

 

My old doctor when I was in my 20's was quite famous for his work, care an interest in the local neighberhood.

 

The one thing he did, made him a legend.

He had a patient, a lady who came to him once a week, blue eyes, bruised arms, broken nose, dislocated jaw and there was a list that included a broken arm.

She came in the one day bleeding from below, her abuser (her son) decided to kick her this time around.

 

Doc drove down to the house, gave the scumbag a good and proper hiding and told him that if his mom was to ever walk in to his rooms with as much as a scratch on her, he (Doc) would be back.

He only ever saw her for common colds and flu's after that.