I run red robots.

[anicca]

I'm a cyclist who joined this site with a confession to make. I run red robots. Not just at night, not just when I'm in a hurry, but as a matter of course. Today a friend cycling behind me commented at how upset a carful of people got when I crossed halfway across Buitengracht over a red (as if I was a pedestrian) because there was a left arrow and therefore I was not crossing anyone's legitimate path. This gave me some food for thought, so I've decided to consciously re-evaluate my attitude and spent a couple of hours on the net.

 

Mostly I'm not a culprit of the other cycling bugbears - I always ride single file, with traffic not against, and I don't ride on pavements. But red light jumping by cyclists is a topic that evokes extremely passionate feelings in people, even here in this country where babies are raped regularly. Why is this? I've asked a lot of people, both motorists and law-abiding cyclists, why they get so upset and the most common reply is along the lines of "it's the law", "cyclists must respect the rules if we are to respect them", "red light jumpers give cyclists a bad name" and "cyclists are arrogant and think they're above the law".

 

But strangely, people don't argue that what the red-light-jumper is doing is dangerous. The consensus seems to be that these cyclists are very careful to cross only when it's safe. That would make sense as most cyclists are aware of their vulnerability and are conscious that a bump from cross-traffic at that intersection would probably be fatal. But almost never could a cyclist cause an accident that would hurt anyone other than him or herself.

 

Strangely also, people don't argue that what the cyclist is doing is inconveniencing anyone. When the cyclist jumps the robot, no one has to wait for them or move out of their way. So why does everyone care so deeply about this issue?

 

My guess is that drivers get annoyed at having to share the road with slower-moving vehicles and point fingers at the law-breaking to justify their indignation. But daily I see drivers on their cellphones, cutting people off, drunk driving, speeding, joking about unpaid fines and even warning others about speed traps and roadblocks on Facebook as if speeding and drunken driving, which kills thousands, is a completely legitimate behaviour. Cyclists are almost incapable of speeding or killing anyone other than themselves. They are doing their bit to reduce congestion and pollution. What reason do drivers have to hate them other than their own impatience and self-righteousness?

 

I would argue, in fact, that red light jumping by cyclists promotes both safety AND the convenience of other road users.

 

France has recently passed a law that allows cyclists to turn right on red (the equivalent of turning left in South Africa). A study done in London showed that female cyclists are more likely to be killed than male cyclists, and states that this may be because they are also more likely to obey red lights, and then collide with vehicles pulling away from the lights: http://www.rudi.net/node/16395 It's rather obvious when you think about it - a stable, moving cyclist behaving in a predictable way in front of you is safer than a cyclist taking off in their wobbly way, amongst three or four lanes of cars doing the same thing. Besides, what driver really wants to share that "go" moment at the robots with cyclists? Do they not realise that having the queue by the robot free from cyclists can only make it more convenient for them?

 

I would really like someone to give me a sensible reason for stopping at the red light. I'm not one who follows the law blindly. If a law is stupid I relish in breaking it. So simply saying that it is against the law is not enough to persuade me to do something. However I'm well aware of the passionate hatred towards cyclists because of this - as irresponsible, unreasonable, misplaced, exaggerated, and downright spiteful as it may be. I still intend to turn left on red. I still intend to go straight at a red with a side street to the right. But as a result of my mini-research mission, I've decided to show some willing and start to stop at red lights whenever my path crosses a lane of traffic that has a green.

 

I'd like to hear some rational debate, or what everyone thinks about my attitude. For once I'd really like to hear people avoid suggesting running the offending cyclist down, opening the car door as he passes or slamming on brakes when he's behind you. If I have one take-home message: it's not an offence worth murdering someone over.

[I.OWN.U]

Hope you have a flame suit..... Wow..... troll on :ph34r: all I can say is WOW

Edited March 15, 2014 by I.OWN.U

[Hairy]

That may have been one big Bridge you crawled out from under........

[CogitoErgoSum]

This is one of those topics that very few will admit to doing themselves. I think every cyclist (roadie or mtb'er) has jumped a red light at some time before. Doing so is entirely dependant upon the situation at hand.

 

As for myself (a mtb'er), I only cross a red light when there is absolutely no cross-traffic, and I do so at a crawl (walking speed). To just run a red light at some speed is just stupidity and suicide.

 

Motorists (I am also one! Duh...) get angry because they reckon cyclists do not contemplate the outcomes of their actions, ie getting hurt, causing problems for the one's bumping them over.

 

Anyway my 1c worth

Edited March 16, 2014 by cjlieben

[Tjokkits]

This is one of those topics that very few will admit to doing themselves. I think every cyclist (roadie or mtb'er) has jumped a red light at some time before. Doing so is entirely dependant upon the situation at hand.

 

As for myself (a mtb'er), I only cross a red light when there is absolutely no cross-traffic, and I do so at a crawl (walking speed). To just run a red light at some speed is just stupidity and suicide.

 

Motorists (I am also one! Duh...) get angry because they reckon cyclists do not contemplate the outcomes of their actions, ie getting hurt, causing problems for the one's bumping them over.

 

Anyway my 1c worth

 

Agree here, appropriate time and way of doing it, its when cyclist take no accountability and simply speed over the robot that we get flamed. Its sometimes safer to crawl over than having to fight cars turning left or be forced to wait in the middle of the road fir green and then navigate through cars going left right and straight.

 

Annica you are brave to open this topic but many truths, welcome to the hub

[javadude]

 

So why does everyone care so deeply about this issue?

 

 

 

Because the kids who cycle to school may see you jump robots and think its the right thing to do. Only they don't share your good judgement and perception of speed.

[Tayyib]

Good luck with the can of worms you just opened! Be interesting to follow this.

I can say I agree with you on a large portion of what you say.

For me I will always stop at a red light first(always) if it is not a big intersection and there is not a single motorised vehicle,I will then proceed to cross the intersection on a red.(Always worried a hubbers going to be in a car nearby )

[Vetseun]

Every week there will be a thread started, bitching about the car that nearly wiped me out this morning or this or that.

 

We cannot complain about motorists if WE do not keep to the rules of the road.

 

A red traffic light is there for a reason. If red, you stop if Green you proceed.

 

Us cyclists have no argument if we ourselves cant keep to the rules.

 

Who the hell do we think me are, doing as we please on the road but bitching like nothing when a motorist does something wrong.

[BarHugger]

 

 

Because the kids who cycle to school may see you jump robots and think its the right thing to do. Only they don't share your good judgement and perception of speed.

 

Very valid point.....but I have seen (actually seen it) kids taken out (both pedestrian and cyclist) obeying the rules of the road at an intersection. Taxi came out of nowhere, in the yellow lines.......! Ask any HUBBER that is familiar with the Hans Strijdom & Boeing intersection (opposite Waterkloof High School) in Pretoria......it is a potential carnage hot spot of note. Another thing also......people's attitude kill people.

[Bianchisti]

Share some of the sentiments, most of which is completely right.

 

Biggest issue for me though is if we don't agree with a particular law, that is not good enough reason to disobey. Because what happens if everyone does that? When I'm in my car I don't agree that overtaking on the left should be illegal so I overtake on the left when I feel like it. Or I don't believe it necessary to come to a dead stop at a four way so I just yield very quick and move along.

 

The result is that everyone has their own rules and no one really knows what the other driver is going to do next, Resulting in chaos. Which is pretty much where we are today I think.

[Li Mu Bai]

For some it will never change, despite the debate. The JHB Engen to Engen morning ride, still hops all the reds (witnessed this again last week) so despite the promises and small talk, this behaviour will continue. Its your own conscious decision, do you go or do you wait. Like most other things in SA there is very little enforcement of the consequences of your action. Pissing off other road users or getting yourself into a pinch by hopping a red are direct consequences. Until you actually pay for your actions, I dont ever see this behaviour changing.

Edited March 16, 2014 by Li Mu Bai

['Dale]

Welcome to the HubSA!

 

 

[Baaisikilist]

At 5am when I'm on tar making my way to the trails, I'm not going to stand and wait at a red light when there isn't a car in sight. I'll slow down, make sure it's safe, and continue through.

[Shebeen]

It's not illegal to be a d005 either.

[JCA12]

I stop at every red light because as it has been mentioned, I can't complain if I'm breaking the rules.

But what I do is stop in the middle of the lane and make eye contact with surrounding cars so they see I'm there. I haven't had problems yet (once or twice motorist screams past over white line overtaking me but I would rather be annoying than injured by someone who didn't see me).

[camelman]

Problem is that for many cyclist all logic and common sense get goes out the window when we pull on on our kit. While maybe 50% will apply common sense and logic the rest will use it as an excuse to speed over red lights. Then when they are run over they will be all upset as they had a "right" to do it. People will start running the red lights without looking left and right. That is the problem.

 

As for thw turning left on a red, the same will apply. In the USA you are even allowed to do a right turn with a car at a red. Unfortunately you need responsible and law abiding people to make this work. Will not happen here in SA in our lifetime.