Daryl Impey cleared!

[Patchelicious]

That's the problem, with drugs like Clenbuterol and the $h!t Daryl was bust for, there is no minimum level, they are totally banned, the laws have not kept pace with the technology of testing, contamination is the reason for most of these +ve test, the real problem is proving the contamination.

Then the laws need to reviewed and changed at that level higher, the guys enforcing the laws are just doing what they are mandated to do I suppose. Is it WADA that sets these laws/levels etc? Edit: Otherwise its kind of like arguing with a traffic cop that the speed limit is stupid. Edited September 1, 2014 by Patchelicious

[jcza]

Are there not thresholds for banned substances that need to be met or exceeded in the tests for action to take place against the riders?

Trace evidence of synthetic substances is enough as these don't occur naturally in the human body....unlike EPO & testosterone.

[SwissVan]

yes but .. like I mentioned earlier, the technology of the tests now almost operate on a molecular level, we really need to get a grip on these numbers, like what would be an acceptable level of cross-contamination in a dispensary in medical terms? and how does this relate to the resolution of the drug tests?

 

I understand what you getting at, some might agrue that wrt to PED's or illegal substances there is no acceptable amount but in reality there might need to or perhaps already in place (?) some sort of threshold for cases like this.

[Andrew Steer]

To live with your head in the sand, or not to live with your head in the sand?

...that is the question.

[Kranswurm]

To live with your head in the sand, or not to live with your head in the sand?

...that is the question.

 

Or more appropriately be part of the problem or part of the solution.

[blondeonabike]

Hi guys, firstly I just want to say that I am by no means a fundi on the subject of doping, but one thing keeps coming to mind regarding the subject (relating now to ALL athletes not just DI)

 

I find it hard to understand how a professional who with OCD-like precision follows:

-a scientific training programme

-an eating plan and knows what they eat down to the very last calorie

-a specific nutrient supplement regime

 

All tailormade for the individual needs to peak and perform at their best "accidentally" injests something. I really am sitting on the fence, with this issue. Even their meds I'm sure they would get from specific manufacturers and suppliers. I will continue to follow these threads.

Edited September 1, 2014 by blondeonabike

[IH8MUD]

Is it just me, or do others also think that the Pharmacist has not covered himself in glory here? So what happens if I'm allergic to penicillin and I'm there to collect other medication after he has handled penicillin? Surely there are protocols that need to be followed to prevent this sort of thing happening.

 

 

Is has happened. Patients meds have been contaminated by pharmacist/staff not following good practice (also know as logic) It will again. But it is uncommon. Car crash or Hijacking more likely to get you.

 

Problem with this explanation for vindication is as follows.

 

The pharmacy must have had the Proben 500mg (probenecid) in stock and dispensed it in a reasonable time frame before the gelatin capsules was purchased. Proben is not very often used. Only one company in SA markets it. I estimete 90% of pharmacies don't keep in on stock, it just stands on the shelve and expires. (not good for business) Mostly in hospital pharmacies, or pharmacies near specialists and or dialysis centers.

 

Gelatin capsules is cheap. 500 caps for R 70, 00.

 

According to one news report the pharmacy did not have the capsules in stock but got it later and it was collected.

 

So:

The Proben had to be in stock, and counted out on the counting tray to be dispensed.

The Proben Tablet had to give of a fair amount of powder on the dispensing tray. (they are fairly hard and don't really give off) I presume they where not pulverized on the counting tray.

 

Then the pharmacist had to count out some gelatin capsules for Daryl on the same counting tray in a reasonable time after the Proben and dispenced it to Daryl.

Why would a pharmacist take the caps out of a sealed container to count out and keep rest on the shelve if the stuff is dirt cheap? It was not in his usual stock inventory. Again bad business. Sell the whole container. It is weird that a person would want only 30 caps for R4.20.

 

Now if this all really happened, consider the very very trace amount of probenecid on the gelatin caps.

You will all say "but they test for trace amounts!". But you're more likely to blow positive at the spietkop after emptying your tot glass in the Olympic swimming pool and then drinking of the water.

 

You have a better chance to get the perfect storm in my opinion.

 

Edit: spelling.

Edited September 1, 2014 by IH8MUD

[ChunkyMonkey]

 

 

Is has happened. Patients meds have been contaminated by pharmacist/staff not following good practice (also know as logic) It will again. But it is uncommon. Car crash or Hijacking more likely to get you.

 

Problem with this explanation for vindication is as follows.

 

The pharmacy must have had the Proben 500mg (probenecid) in stock and dispensed it in a reasonable time frame before the gelatin capsules was purchased. Proben is not very often used. Only one company in SA markets it. I estimete 90% of pharmacies don't keep in on stock, it just stands on the shelve and expires. (not good for business) Mostly in hospital pharmacies, or pharmacies near specialists and or dialysis centers.

 

Gelatin capsules is cheap. 500 caps for R 70, 00.

 

According to one news report the pharmacy did not have the capsules in stock but got it later and it was collected.

 

So:

The Proben had to be in stock, and counted out on the counting tray to be dispensed.

The Proben Tablet had to give of a fair amount of powder on the dispensing tray. (they are fairly hard and don't really give off) I presume they where not pulverized on the counting tray.

 

Then the pharmacist had to count out some gelatin capsules for Daryl on the same counting tray in a reasonable time after the Proben and dispenced it to Daryl.

Why would a pharmacist take the caps out of a sealed container to count out and keep rest on the shelve if the stuff is dirt cheap? It was not in his usual stock inventory. Again bad business. Sell the whole container. It is weird that a person would want only 30 caps for R4.20.

 

Now if this all really happened, consider the very very trace amount of probenecid on the gelatin caps.

You will all say "but they test for trace amounts!". But you're more likely to blow positive at the spietkop after emptying your tot glass in the Olympic swimming pool and then drinking of the water.

 

You have a better chance to get the perfect storm in my opinion.

 

Edit: spelling.

 

Excactly ih8mud ! Ditto!

That was a perfect summary!!

[DJR]

IH8MUD = "I hate mud" - damn, I can't believe I took so long to "see" your name! I feel so slooooow. Suppose you're a roadie mostly?

[andydude]

 

That's the problem, with drugs like Clenbuterol and the $h!t Daryl was bust for, there is no minimum level, they are totally banned, the laws have not kept pace with the technology of testing, contamination is the reason for most of these +ve test, the real problem is proving the contamination.

Isn't the reason for the no threshold that those substances are not "natural" and there is no reason for it to be in your system. The only reason it might be in you is 1 accident/contamination 2 on purpose/masking/cocktail. For "natural", e.g. hemocrit the threshold might be 50.

 

Edit: I see jcza answered my question.

Edited September 1, 2014 by andydude

[ratherberidin']

Is has happened. Patients meds have been contaminated by pharmacist/staff not following good practice (also know as logic) It will again. But it is uncommon. Car crash or Hijacking more likely to get you.

 

Problem with this explanation for vindication is as follows.

 

The pharmacy must have had the Proben 500mg (probenecid) in stock and dispensed it in a reasonable time frame before the gelatin capsules was purchased. Proben is not very often used. Only one company in SA markets it. I estimete 90% of pharmacies don't keep in on stock, it just stands on the shelve and expires. (not good for business) Mostly in hospital pharmacies, or pharmacies near specialists and or dialysis centers.

 

Gelatin capsules is cheap. 500 caps for R 70, 00.

 

According to one news report the pharmacy did not have the capsules in stock but got it later and it was collected.

 

So:

The Proben had to be in stock, and counted out on the counting tray to be dispensed.

The Proben Tablet had to give of a fair amount of powder on the dispensing tray. (they are fairly hard and don't really give off) I presume they where not pulverized on the counting tray.

 

Then the pharmacist had to count out some gelatin capsules for Daryl on the same counting tray in a reasonable time after the Proben and dispenced it to Daryl.

Why would a pharmacist take the caps out of a sealed container to count out and keep rest on the shelve if the stuff is dirt cheap? It was not in his usual stock inventory. Again bad business. Sell the whole container. It is weird that a person would want only 30 caps for R4.20.

 

Now if this all really happened, consider the very very trace amount of probenecid on the gelatin caps.

You will all say "but they test for trace amounts!". But you're more likely to blow positive at the spietkop after emptying your tot glass in the Olympic swimming pool and then drinking of the water.

 

You have a better chance to get the perfect storm in my opinion.

 

Edit: spelling.

 

Thats what Ive been thinking the whole time! (Just in less detail)

 

I'd like to hear from someone who knows, 'cus I don't, how hard it would be to pick up that tiny amount of banned substance (cmon, if we're believing "honest mistake contamination" it could only be a minuscule mount transferred) in his system, and how long it stays there. I can't say he is lying, and I am glad he's off because I want to see him race, but one can't help but think it's a little suspicious given the history of our beloved sport.

[Patchelicious]

IH8MUD = "I hate mud" - damn, I can't believe I took so long to "see" your name! I feel so slooooow. Suppose you're a roadie mostly?

I didn't see it till you saw it... But a very good response and point of view.

[Wyatt Earp]

Have the hub detectives brought any new evidence forward ?

Sorry if I missed it, I was a bit busy.

[Kranswurm]

Is has happened. Patients meds have been contaminated by pharmacist/staff not following good practice (also know as logic) It will again. But it is uncommon. Car crash or Hijacking more likely to get you.

 

Problem with this explanation for vindication is as follows.

 

The pharmacy must have had the Proben 500mg (probenecid) in stock and dispensed it in a reasonable time frame before the gelatin capsules was purchased. Proben is not very often used. Only one company in SA markets it. I estimete 90% of pharmacies don't keep in on stock, it just stands on the shelve and expires. (not good for business) Mostly in hospital pharmacies, or pharmacies near specialists and or dialysis centers.

 

Gelatin capsules is cheap. 500 caps for R 70, 00.

 

According to one news report the pharmacy did not have the capsules in stock but got it later and it was collected.

 

So:

The Proben had to be in stock, and counted out on the counting tray to be dispensed.

The Proben Tablet had to give of a fair amount of powder on the dispensing tray. (they are fairly hard and don't really give off) I presume they where not pulverized on the counting tray.

 

Then the pharmacist had to count out some gelatin capsules for Daryl on the same counting tray in a reasonable time after the Proben and dispenced it to Daryl.

Why would a pharmacist take the caps out of a sealed container to count out and keep rest on the shelve if the stuff is dirt cheap? It was not in his usual stock inventory. Again bad business. Sell the whole container. It is weird that a person would want only 30 caps for R4.20.

 

Now if this all really happened, consider the very very trace amount of probenecid on the gelatin caps.

You will all say "but they test for trace amounts!". But you're more likely to blow positive at the spietkop after emptying your tot glass in the Olympic swimming pool and then drinking of the water.

 

You have a better chance to get the perfect storm in my opinion.

 

Edit: spelling.

It's all BS

[IH8MUD]

Thats what Ive been thinking the whole time! (Just in less detail)I'd like to hear from someone who knows, 'cus I don't, how hard it would be to pick up that tiny amount of banned substance (cmon, if we're believing "honest mistake contamination" it could only be a minuscule mount transferred) in his system, and how long it stays there. I can't say he is lying, and I am glad he's off because I want to see him race, but one can't help but think it's a little suspicious given the history of our beloved sport.

 

How long does it stay?

Probenecid peak plasma concentration after taking dose is 3-4 hours. Then half life is 2-6hrs,meaning if the plasma concentration was 150microgram/ml after 5hrs its 75 micogram/ml another 5hrs its 37.5microgram/ml and so forth. The concentration drops quickly below the therapeutic dose (that is why the dose for treating gout can go as high as 2 gram twice a day). But is can be detectable in the blood for some time.

This is in a case where the drug was taken on purpose. NOT applicable in the case in question where the starting point was possible trace amounts. (whiskey tot in the Olympic pool).

 

"how hard it would be to pick up that tiny amount of banned substance"

Quite hard. Tablets are mostly blister packed or packed in dispensing quantity in the factory (Packed of 30 Myprodol)

Especially the retail pharmacy in moving away from counting out of the container of 5000.(Not speaking for national health care system and big hospitals)

 

Even in cases of counting tablets out, you should be the only person to ever touch your tablets.

In my opinion band substance contamination from you meds. . . . much better chance at the Mega Millions or some European lotto. (I'm not saying form other sources)

If your pharmacist manage to contaminate you with a banned substance . . . . I have no words . . .

Contamination resulting in an allergic reaction do to allergy for the contaminant . . .have been documented.

 

(Take note: I like Daryl, I want to see him race . . wish there was never this whole shitty issue, but I struggle to believe this scapegoat)

Edited September 1, 2014 by IH8MUD

[jimmycool]

This thread is now going around in circles...

 

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