Kevin Evans accepts doping charge

[Skubarra]

 

What you say is true in a certain sense - you have to use a comparable MAX effort from all participants in the test (and an appropriate test) - so during a race you cannot guarantee the efforts will be max efforts - and you don't know on STRAVA either - but as a general rule - guys that are consistently winning STRAVA kom's are generally capable of winning races (this does not mean they will win races as there are other elements to racing like team strategy, pacing, nutrition, etc etc)

 

Not sure how this Strava debate started (thought there is a seperate thread for that). Yes in general the actual racing snakes will have most of the STRAVA kom's. But a semi-decent cyclist with a strong tailwind targeting a specific segment can often steal a KOM from an actual pro. 

 

Like Patch said - way too many variables.

 

I really wouldn't think a Strava segment is a particularly good measurement of actual ability unless it is something like the 121km "Attakwas 2016" segment!

[V12man]

This is interesting around the Ozone treatment, for us layman, what is t actually supposed to do?

 

On the Vets doping. It seems that there is a lower emotional barrier to something like HGH in Vets, as older guys seem to justify that because their hormone levels are dropping, that it's not exactly outright cheating to them as there could be real world health benefits to it.

 

What's your take on it?

Ozone treatment - in my opinion it's similar to snake oil - there are no ozone treatment machines that I am aware of in any ER I work in - it's very much regarded as complimentary medicine - perhaps useful in some things, but  if you need more oxygen in the tissues, then pure oxygen via a mask works pretty well - and in any case will NOT raise the levels of Hb etc at all - you need EPO or sustained LOW 02 levels to do that (which works via the natural verson of epo anyway)

 

HGH as a therapy has a place for sure in the treatment of certain medical conditions, (cosmetic and othewise) but I certainly don't believe there is abslutely no risk attatched to it's use - especially during unqualified and unmanaged treatment - I suspect that any Vet that actually uses it knows full well they are cheating - and I make no comment on their morals that allow this - clearly I don't believe that it's medically advisable - perhaps when I am 20 years older I might change my mind.

 

Let me place on record I am rabidly against PEDS use for non medical teatments, and if you want to make me angry let me meet the people who supply non pharmaceutical and veterinary grade steroids to schoolkids (and this is a HUGE problem, both in SA and worldwide - compared to this, doping in cycling is a trivial problem....)

 

Now I am off to breathe deeply and try to get my BP down - just thinking about kids steroid useage has annoyed me badly (again).

[Patchelicious]

Ozone treatment - in my opinion it's similar to snake oil - there are no ozone treatment machines that I am aware of in any ER I work in - it's very much regarded as complimentary medicine - perhaps useful in some things, but if you need more oxygen in the tissues, then pure oxygen via a mask works pretty well - and in any case will NOT raise the levels of Hb etc at all - you need EPO or sustained LOW 02 levels to do that (which works via the natural verson of epo anyway)

 

HGH as a therapy has a place for sure in the treatment of certain medical conditions, (cosmetic and othewise) but I certainly don't believe there is abslutely no risk attatched to it's use - especially during unqualified and unmanaged treatment - I suspect that any Vet that actually uses it knows full well they are cheating - and I make no comment on their morals that allow this - clearly I don't believe that it's medically advisable - perhaps when I am 20 years older I might change my mind.

 

Let me place on record I am rabidly against PEDS use for non medical teatments, and if you want to make me angry let me meet the people who supply non pharmaceutical and veterinary grade steroids to schoolkids (and this is a HUGE problem, both in SA and worldwide - compared to this, doping in cycling is a trivial problem....)

 

Now I am off to breathe deeply and try to get my BP down - just thinking about kids steroid useage has annoyed me badly (again).

Thank you, interesting!

 

On the last point. If you as a 45year old decide to dope, you are a poos.

 

If you as a 45 year old make your 15 year old dope, you are a criminal! It's disgusting!

Edited January 21, 2016 by Patchelicious

[V12man]

 

If you as a 45 year old make your 15 year old dope, you are a criminal! It's disgusting!

True - unfortunately there are 15 - 20 year olds who decide to do this themselves and parents who don't notice... and give them enough pocket money to fund it too.... and wonder why their school brings them to an ER when they collapse... liver fried..... amongst other issues...

 

Coaches and parents who peddle peds to their kids are worse than criminals - medeival (sp?)  torture is too easy a punishment for them.

[Thor Buttox]

Thank you, interesting!

 

On the last point. If you as a 45year old decide to dope, you are a poos.

 

If you as a 45 year old make your 15 year old dope, you are a criminal! It's disgusting!

+ effing 1. On this one, I genuinely hope parent bodies get together at some of the schools, and get the okes arrested. What are the chances...

[NelAndre]

Always you will see the dopers shouting down the talk of doping and how it 'drags the sport through the mud'. A long term refrain of doper Brandon Stewart and his entourage. When, of course, it is the DOPING that is the issue, not the talk thereof.

Amen

[Barend de Arend]

True - unfortunately there are 15 - 20 year olds who decide to do this themselves and parents who don't notice... and give them enough pocket money to fund it too.... and wonder why their school brings them to an ER when they collapse... liver fried..... amongst other issues...

 

Coaches and parents who peddle peds to their kids are worse than criminals - medeival (sp?)  torture is too easy a punishment for them.

 

I view providing PEDs (and a variety of other drugs) without medical reason to underage kids as child abuse, and possibly attempted murder.  The legal charge should be such.

 

This is true even if the kid knows what he's getting.  There's no way that the kid is making a fully informed decision on his health.  At 15 you're invincible and immortal.

[Eldron]

Ozone treatment - in my opinion it's similar to snake oil - there are no ozone treatment machines that I am aware of in any ER I work in - it's very much regarded as complimentary medicine - perhaps useful in some things, but  if you need more oxygen in the tissues, then pure oxygen via a mask works pretty well - and in any case will NOT raise the levels of Hb etc at all - you need EPO or sustained LOW 02 levels to do that (which works via the natural verson of epo anyway)

 

 

Disclaimer: this is from a scientific point of view - not medical.

 

I was always taught that Ozone is metastable - it doesn't last long in the O3 form. My logic dictates that it will "hyperoxygenate" for a very short while then turn back into lots of O2.

 

Ozone is also great at killing germs/bacteria so I can medical benefit there.

 

I reckon if you have ozone treatment the extra oxygen will be gone by the tie you leave the hospital and are in your car.

 

I don't understand how it can be used to enhance athletic performance.

 

Any doctors/medical experts that can shed some light on the subject?

 

Here is an article: http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/italian-doctor-under-investigation-for-administering-ozone-therapy/

 

...but I still can't see how it enhances performance. Even if it enriches the oxygen levels in the blood (200cc) surely that is long gone by the 4th or 5th pedal stroke?

 

Red blood corpuscles sure - the more there are the more they can carry oxygen from lung to leg but actual oxygen in the blood gets chewed up real quick and ozone doesn't improve oxygen uptake.

 

Colour me confused.

 

 

 

Edit: Found this: http://www.austinfitmagazine.com/October-2015/Oxygen-Treatment-for-Athletes/

 

So it's good for recovery!

Edited January 21, 2016 by Eldron

[Eldron]

Edit edit:

 

In one study, male runners who engaged in an average of 12- to 30-minute sauna sessions twice a week immediately after an intense run, resulted in a 32 percent increase in the distance they could run before reaching the point of exhaustion.

 

32 percent distance increase from ozone recovery? If that is true then I'm off to buy me an ozone machine. Oh. Wait. It's illegal. Scratch that idea.

[rouxtjie]

Disclaimer: this is from a scientific point of view - not medical.

 

I was always taught that Ozone is metastable - it doesn't last long in the O3 form. My logic dictates that it will "hyperoxygenate" for a very short while then turn back into lots of O2.

 

Ozone is also great at killing germs/bacteria so I can medical benefit there.

 

I reckon if you have ozone treatment the extra oxygen will be gone by the tie you leave the hospital and are in your car.

 

I don't understand how it can be used to enhance athletic performance.

 

Any doctors/medical experts that can shed some light on the subject?

 

Here is an article: http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/italian-doctor-under-investigation-for-administering-ozone-therapy/

 

...but I still can't see how it enhances performance. Even if it enriches the oxygen levels in the blood (200cc) surely that is long gone by the 4th or 5th pedal stroke?

 

Red blood corpuscles sure - the more there are the more they can carry oxygen from lung to leg but actual oxygen in the blood gets chewed up real quick and ozone doesn't improve oxygen uptake.

 

Colour me confused.

 

 

 

Edit: Found this: http://www.austinfitmagazine.com/October-2015/Oxygen-Treatment-for-Athletes/

 

So it's good for recovery!

another great use for it is to explain suspicious levels....

[Danger Dassie]

True - unfortunately there are 15 - 20 year olds who decide to do this themselves and parents who don't notice... and give them enough pocket money to fund it too.... and wonder why their school brings them to an ER when they collapse... liver fried..... amongst other issues...

 

Coaches and parents who peddle peds to their kids are worse than criminals - medeival (sp?)  torture is too easy a punishment for them.

 

Personally feel that should carry with it a mandatory prison term.

[Spinnekop]

Ozone treatment - in my opinion it's similar to snake oil - there are no ozone treatment machines that I am aware of in any ER I work in - it's very much regarded as complimentary medicine - perhaps useful in some things, but  if you need more oxygen in the tissues, then pure oxygen via a mask works pretty well - and in any case will NOT raise the levels of Hb etc at all - you need EPO or sustained LOW 02 levels to do that (which works via the natural verson of epo anyway)

 

HGH as a therapy has a place for sure in the treatment of certain medical conditions, (cosmetic and othewise) but I certainly don't believe there is abslutely no risk attatched to it's use - especially during unqualified and unmanaged treatment - I suspect that any Vet that actually uses it knows full well they are cheating - and I make no comment on their morals that allow this - clearly I don't believe that it's medically advisable - perhaps when I am 20 years older I might change my mind.

 

Let me place on record I am rabidly against PEDS use for non medical teatments, and if you want to make me angry let me meet the people who supply non pharmaceutical and veterinary grade steroids to schoolkids (and this is a HUGE problem, both in SA and worldwide - compared to this, doping in cycling is a trivial problem....)

 

Now I am off to breathe deeply and try to get my BP down - just thinking about kids steroid useage has annoyed me badly (again).

Very informative.  Thanks V12man.

 

 

[Spinnekop]

From memory - EPO (from the pharmacy) is about 1800 a month for therapeutic doses - and that is manageable for most well to do vets - HGH on the other hand is much more expensive - MUCH.

 

And you are absolutely correct that the barriers to doping for Vets that are already sucessful in business are low - financially fairly low (monthly or long term if you get caught), and unless you are standing on the podium for a major race, then really unlikely to be tested at all.

 

Still - the issues around applying for a KE TUE for ozone therapy are at best dodgy - Ozone is not even on the restricted list - http://list.wada-ama.org/by-substance/#O-group - so why even apply for a TUE - clearly you don't need a TUE for what is not restricted - nor will they even issue one.

 

You think R1800 a month is cheap?  Well F$*# me.  That is like TWO years supplements for me.   

Imagine the cool toys you can buy if you save up for a year on that?!?

 

On a separate note.....I need to drink more coffee. 

[Spinnekop]

There's a few Vets 'out-liers' indeed that has small ego and inferiority complex that need to feel better about themselves.

I would agree that 7 out of 10 really earn their results through hard and smart work in the saddle.

I am up every morning at around 3:30.  Out on the bike 4:30.

And the only guys you see training are the old ballies. 

[RocknRolla]

I am deducting that Beer must be full of ozone...

[T-Bob]

Jeez guys... I've had enough of all this doping talk, pro's and former pros. I'm off to The Gear Change for a coffee.