Patchelicious Posted October 9, 2018 Posted October 9, 2018 That’s your choice, which I understand. If I had my way there would only be life bans for convicted dopers. In reality that hardly happens, so I choose to enjoy the spectacle instead of getting bitter and twisted about stuff I have no control over. Valverde and Co put on a great race (spectacle), who knows in 5 years we might be saying the same stuff about Bardet, Woods or whoeverWrong!! Woods is clean, cause we like him.
SwissVan Posted October 9, 2018 Posted October 9, 2018 Wrong!! Woods is clean, cause we like him. What do you mean, "we" paleface? said in my best tonto accent Ramrod 1
Patchelicious Posted October 9, 2018 Posted October 9, 2018 What do you mean, "we" paleface? said in my best tonto accentWe! Cause everybody likes him. And if you don’t you have no panache or don’t understand cycling so you don’t count. Nibali 1
SwissVan Posted October 9, 2018 Posted October 9, 2018 We! Cause everybody likes him. And if you don’t you have no panache or don’t understand cycling so you don’t count. You could be talking about Valverde
Patchelicious Posted October 9, 2018 Posted October 9, 2018 You could be talking about ValverdeExactly. This why people are ok with him or Clenbutador, but poefie in their panties when a guy uses an asthma pump.
SwissVan Posted October 10, 2018 Posted October 10, 2018 Exactly. This why people are ok with him or Clenbutador, but poefie in their panties when a guy uses an asthma pump.You had to mention that Contador fellow, the hypocrites favourite?
Thor Buttox Posted October 10, 2018 Posted October 10, 2018 You had to mention that Contador fellow, the hypocrites favourite?There is very little difference between a dodgy hypocrite and a dodgy haematocrit. Both result in raised expectations without honesty or self-reflection. geomark 1
peetwindhoek Posted October 10, 2018 Posted October 10, 2018 Wasn’t Nene caught doping at Saxonwold?Dopping, not doping
Eldron Posted October 10, 2018 Posted October 10, 2018 Exactly, sort of like being a registered sex offender. Everybody should know you committed this offence even though you've done your time and paid your dues. All the questions being asked detract from the prestige of his victory. "Is he a worthy champion?" headlines, the lack of enthusiasm and elation for his victory - these are the costs of being caught doping even if you go on to achieve success later. His victory will never be as celebrated as that of an untainted rider. A young rider, who might aspire to wear that jersey one day, would in all likelihood notice how celebrated Sagan (2015-2017) was and how muted the celebrations were for Valverde. It wasn't always the case. While generation EPO are ostracized, Merckx and Pantani are still revered despite in all likelihood doping more aggressively than anybody could without being caught in the mid 2000s. Perhaps that is where the change will come from, when the majority of cycling fans no longer hold the "they all dope anyway so I'll forgive my hero for getting caught" view. We seem to give dopers less mercy than we used to. That might give riders the incentive to stay clean. Agreed. While teams keep signing up dirty riders & employing ex dirty riders and while dirty ex riders get VIP invites to races the fight against doping is going to be tough. How is it that the same sport that keeps on saying they want doping out keeps bringing the dirt back into the fold? Bizarre. I'm hoping the current Shan Wilson case will lift the lid on doping suppliers and bring awareness to the dirt behind the doping. Me personally - I will never buy a product from his company. The only real avenue us "general public" have are our wallets. "Sanctioned doper" needs to be added to his list of achievements: https://www.definitivebikes.com/about-us/ https://www.bikehub.co.za/features/_/news/industry-news/shan-wilson-served-six-year-ban-for-doping-violations-r7513 intern and GaryvdM 2
Squier Posted October 10, 2018 Posted October 10, 2018 Agreed. While teams keep signing up dirty riders & employing ex dirty riders and while dirty ex riders get VIP invites to races the fight against doping is going to be tough. How is it that the same sport that keeps on saying they want doping out keeps bringing the dirt back into the fold? Bizarre. I'm hoping the current Shan Wilson case will lift the lid on doping suppliers and bring awareness to the dirt behind the doping. Me personally - I will never buy a product from his company. The only real avenue us "general public" have are our wallets. "Sanctioned doper" needs to be added to his list of achievements: https://www.definitivebikes.com/about-us/ https://www.bikehub.co.za/features/_/news/industry-news/shan-wilson-served-six-year-ban-for-doping-violations-r7513 Everyone is looking for information from dopers on suppliers etc like it is one giant drug ring or organised syndicate. I don't think it's like that at all. I googled "erythropoietin shop" and the first two hits were places where you could buy EPO online - the one place being local. To us, it's the biggest and baddest performance enhancing substance. To non-cycling folk it's just medicine. My point is, it doesn't seem as if you need a drug cartell or an organised crime syndicate to get it. From a 1 minute google search it looks to be pretty easily obtainable. intern, Skubarra, peetwindhoek and 1 other 4
Patchelicious Posted October 10, 2018 Posted October 10, 2018 Everyone is looking for information from dopers on suppliers etc like it is one giant drug ring or organised syndicate. I don't think it's like that at all. I googled "erythropoietin shop" and the first two hits were places where you could buy EPO online - the one place being local. The people getting murdered in the "roids" scene might disagree. If there is money in it, and its illegal, there will be a syndicate behind it. That doesn't mean you cant ALSO buy it on dodgy websites. intern 1
GaryvdM Posted October 10, 2018 Posted October 10, 2018 Everyone is looking for information from dopers on suppliers etc like it is one giant drug ring or organised syndicate. I don't think it's like that at all. I googled "erythropoietin shop" and the first two hits were places where you could buy EPO online - the one place being local. e1.PNG e2.PNG To us, it's the biggest and baddest performance enhancing substance. To non-cycling folk it's just medicine. My point is, it doesn't seem as if you need a drug cartell or an organised crime syndicate to get it. From a 1 minute google search it looks to be pretty easily obtainable. It's not just about getting hold of the epo. Unless you want to die in your sleep, you need the equipment for doing hematocrit tests, and the knowledge on how to do the test, or a doctor to do it for you. Patchelicious and Danger Dassie 2
Danger Dassie Posted October 10, 2018 Posted October 10, 2018 Everyone is looking for information from dopers on suppliers etc like it is one giant drug ring or organised syndicate. I don't think it's like that at all. I googled "erythropoietin shop" and the first two hits were places where you could buy EPO online - the one place being local. e1.PNG e2.PNG To us, it's the biggest and baddest performance enhancing substance. To non-cycling folk it's just medicine. My point is, it doesn't seem as if you need a drug cartell or an organised crime syndicate to get it. From a 1 minute google search it looks to be pretty easily obtainable.That's speculative, what isn't speculative is that the case is the subject of a Hawks investigation. That isn't something that happens on a hunch.
Pure Savage Posted October 10, 2018 Posted October 10, 2018 Everyone is looking for information from dopers on suppliers etc like it is one giant drug ring or organised syndicate. I don't think it's like that at all. I googled "erythropoietin shop" and the first two hits were places where you could buy EPO online - the one place being local. e1.PNG e2.PNG To us, it's the biggest and baddest performance enhancing substance. To non-cycling folk it's just medicine. My point is, it doesn't seem as if you need a drug cartell or an organised crime syndicate to get it. From a 1 minute google search it looks to be pretty easily obtainable. We are not talking about normal EPO, it was the not available yet, untraceable EPO that was found. You then need to answer how one obtain stuff which is not listed on google... Danger Dassie 1
Patchelicious Posted October 10, 2018 Posted October 10, 2018 Guys, there is no systemic doping and syndicates... Icarus was a fictional mockumentary! Danger Dassie and Pure Savage 2
Skubarra Posted October 10, 2018 Posted October 10, 2018 That's speculative, what isn't speculative is that the case is the subject of a Hawks investigation. That isn't something that happens on a hunch. I am kind of with squier on this, I would be surprised if there is a sophisticated doping ring operating in SA pro circles (this is really just my opinion based on nothing more than a hunch) Only pro caught in the past few years that showed any kind of sophistication in the way he doped was DG who probably doped for years and only got caught when testing procedures improved. For the rest it's often a comedy hour of incompetence & recklessness. Cyclists who take over the counter flue medicines without checking the list, BS with botched testosterone TUE, Crouser with his saddle sore needles, KE with his brain implosion after his appendix op. I can go on. If it it turns out our local pros were actually capable and had the resources to be part of sophisticated doping rings I would almost be pleasantly surprised Underachiever and DieselnDust 2
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