Do eBikes belong on the mountain?

[Shebeen]

Let's run a quick poll...

 

Who spotted the Crocodile Dundee reference and who didn't?

 

If you took that post seriously I recommend you go out and socialise more.

ok, I'll join that poll.

I didn't spot the "mate that's not a knife, this is a knife" jibe, because you've made the same "joke" about five times on this thread before. Who tells the same joke to an audience more than three times?

 

I can see you're bright enough to see the difference between a pedal assist Ebike(what we're talking about here) and a motorbike(electric or stink). By continually referring to them as motorbikes you're actually just stirring.

 

If you think they are more like a motorbike than a bicycle, you either haven't ridden one or are just stirring. I'm guessing you've had more than enough opportunity in Denmark for the first not to be the case.

 

Now you're a smart guy, pretty good at catching the mood and opinions and in general a great dude to have on the forum. Here we have a complex issue (50 odd pages of mostly on topic posts shows you that it's not a black and white issue), but since you are in one corner that's your opinion finish and klaar, but the grey area is where the actual debate is. I don't know why you want to keep adding an extreme view to a debate - it won't advance it.

 

Never thought there would be so much hate for people riding bicycles without medical doping involved.

[Tony datoy]

After migrating from a Pyga OneTen to a Turbo Levo FSR 6 Fattie earlier this year I have been shown the middle finger more times than I care, which I don’t.

 

When people say ebike, they usually mean Pedelec. There are technical and legal differences between a pedelec and an ebike.

 

Pedelecs (pedal electric cycles) are cycles that assist the rider’s pedaling effort with a battery/ electric motor delivering up to 250 watts assisted power at a speed of up to 25 km/h. There are many other different types of electric bikes with different ways of activating the electric assist and they all fall outside of the definition of a pedelec.

 

Pedelec’s are designed to augment human power and not replace it. Assistance only comes on when you pedal and it makes pedaling easier. Assistance automatically turns off when you stop pedaling; there is simply no throttle present. These amazing bicycles use pedal assist which runs in the background delivering smooth assistance whilst cycling with the option of a little boost to get up a steep section of trail where challenged individuals would normally have to get off and push. This can be seen to be advantageous to the other cyclists as it mitigates bottlenecks.

 

You can adjust the level of assistance from no assistance to a great deal of assistance so don’t take it for granted that everyone on a pedelec is at full boost all the time; I spend most of the time at 20% which basically compensates for the additional weight.

 

At a certain speed assistance is cut out; 25 km/h is the limit. Most bicycle riders can reach speed higher than 25 km/h for a limited time without much effort.

 

The same people who pioneered mountain-biking in South Africa are now in their 50s and 60s, and we still like to ride our bikes. Pedelecs allows us to continue to do something that we’ve always loved to do despite the physical challenges that come with age; something that younger folks are not going to get. My pedelec will extend my mountain biking by another 15 years.

 

In my opinion the limited speed and power of pedelecs makes them okay to use on trails with other cyclists, however I do not agree with mixing then up with other cyclists in races unless they are grouped in a different class without interfering with the other cyclists on the race day.

[Shebeen]

My bad, your opinion has actually moved with the thread. and you have ridden one!

Just stop calling them motorbikes and we can get along just fine.

 

from mild disgust for ebikes and especially their riders

Here in Copenhagen e-bikes are scorned by riders! The old and invalid use them and then only if they're really old and really invalidded. Oh and mailman. In Denmark old people *** you out if you give them your seat on thr bus. I like that. A lot.

E-bikes should be "last resort" in my opinion. How farkon soft has society got that people "need" ebikes? Very few people actually need ebikes. They're just farkin soft.

 

 

to a general acceptance that they are useful, but not really understanding why one would ride them.

 

 

I have nothing against using e-bike to fill in for handicaps/weaknesses  - allowing older people to remain cyclists, extend range of people wanting to ride to work, allowing special needs people to be cyclists but I draw the line at fit/healthy cyclists being lazy and/or simply wanting to go faster.

 

I really don't get it. If you want to go really fast buy a motorbike. If you like downhills then hit actual downhills with a shuttle.

 

This whole "oh I like the downhills but couldn't arsed to ride the uphills so I plan on getting an ebike to go and shred the descents on the local trails" thing fuddles my brains.

 

All my own opinion of course - I'm all for anyone doing whatever they want as long as it doesn't interfere with other people doing what they want. I guess that means I'll never own one (until I'm oooold) and would prefer to not have them on the trails. Logic dictates that they should be allowed on the trails as long as they aren't powerful enough to rip up trail motox style and the riders don't roost and/or tear past people at stupid/dangerous speed.

 

to, I'm cool with Ebikes, just don't race them.

We're on thw same page - I'm all for ebikes. More choice is always better! Just not in races...

I've ridden a few and they're cool but I prefer bicycles for cycling and motorbikes for going fast.

In general I see most "crossover" products as a compromise.

 

 

 

I know quoting someone over time is cherrypicking and unfair, and I'm damn sure my words will contradict myself here too. So my opinion (for now at least):

*ebikes are a really awesome mix of technologies in one package

*they are bicycles

*they get more people riding bikes, and that can only be a good thing

*they are here to stay, we will need to learn to deal with them.

*there are chops in every segment of society, the population of ebike owners will be no different

*they should not be raced against unassisted bikes for time. if there are enough give them a category. This is not straightforward, but not impossible. I don't think cycling should ever be an exclusionary sport. If piet van staden @ 130kgs buys an ebike and gets fit, I don't think he should need to buy another bike to enjoy a mtb race experience. He just mustn't expect to get an official finish and shouldn't be a d!ck about it.

 

I don't own one (yet), but the way it is going I think many people will come back in 2/3/15 years time and wonder why they were so against them. Not everyone, of course.

[Patchelicious]

 

*ebikes are a really awesome mix of technologies in one package

*they are bicycles

*they get more people riding bikes, and that can only be a good thing

*they are here to stay, we will need to learn to deal with them.

*there are chops in every segment of society, the population of ebike owners will be no different

*they should not be raced against unassisted bikes for time. 

 

This is what general census seems to be... not sure why people like arguing on sementics when they are actually agreeing on the important fundamental issues.

[Headshot]

so, bare with your own logic for a second

bicycle + electric shifting =  electric bike?

uh mean it has a servo motor, so it's actually an electric motorbike?

 

flogging a dead horse is pointless. Pointing out to the man that he is doing something pointless, i suppose does become futile after a while too. Think about that one for a second.

Clutching at straws and flogging your own dead pony?

 

The fact is that the industry has attempted to make motorised bikes cool by calling them "E" . They are in reality, that is, plain English, Motor-bicycles. 

[Headshot]

The same people who pioneered mountain-biking in South Africa are now in their 50s and 60s, and we still like to ride our bikes. Pedelecs allows us to continue to do something that we’ve always loved to do despite the physical challenges that come with age; something that younger folks are not going to get. My pedelec will extend my mountain biking by another 15 years.

 

Not sure what being in your 50's or 60's has to do with needing an eBike? I fall into the 50 something bracket as do several friends. We happily still ride our bikes up hills, do marathons and enduro's. To me an E Bike is a bit like going for the Zimmer Frame or wheel chair option. if old age is your justification of course. :-) 

 

In fact, they make riding and having fun easier for all ages - most of the people I have seen on them don't fit into the age category you mention and I see plenty of people in that category on normal bikes. Do they make kids eBikes? Would help ease them into cycling up hills I reckon.

[Hairy]

The same people who pioneered mountain-biking in South Africa are now in their 50s and 60s, and we still like to ride our bikes. Pedelecs allows us to continue to do something that we’ve always loved to do despite the physical challenges that come with age; something that younger folks are not going to get. My pedelec will extend my mountain biking by another 15 years.

 

Not sure what being in your 50's or 60's has to do with needing an eBike? I fall into the 50 something bracket as do several friends. We happily still ride our bikes up hills, do marathons and enduro's. To me an E Bike is a bit like going for the Zimmer Frame or wheel chair option. if old age is your justification of course. :-) 

 

In fact, they make riding and having fun easier for all ages - most of the people I have seen on them don't fit into the age category you mention and I see plenty of people in that category on normal bikes. Do they make kids eBikes? Would help ease them into cycling up hills I reckon.

Something I too have noticed.

 

When I next pop into a rather trendy bike shop in town (Who told me they sell more motorbikes vs pedal bikes as of late) I will ask them the general age group and fitness level buying up the snazzy motorbikes on offer....what get's me chuckling is that you can buy the motor bikes on higher purchase like any other motorised vehicle (sure you can buy the pedal bikes too on HP, but this still makes me chuckle)

[Escapee..]

After migrating from a Pyga OneTen to a Turbo Levo FSR 6 Fattie earlier this year I have been shown the middle finger more times than I care, which I don’t.

 

When people say ebike, they usually mean Pedelec. There are technical and legal differences between a pedelec and an ebike.

 

Pedelecs (pedal electric cycles) are cycles that assist the rider’s pedaling effort with a battery/ electric motor delivering up to 250 watts assisted power at a speed of up to 25 km/h. There are many other different types of electric bikes with different ways of activating the electric assist and they all fall outside of the definition of a pedelec.

 

Pedelec’s are designed to augment human power and not replace it. Assistance only comes on when you pedal and it makes pedaling easier. Assistance automatically turns off when you stop pedaling; there is simply no throttle present. These amazing bicycles use pedal assist which runs in the background delivering smooth assistance whilst cycling with the option of a little boost to get up a steep section of trail where challenged individuals would normally have to get off and push. This can be seen to be advantageous to the other cyclists as it mitigates bottlenecks.

 

You can adjust the level of assistance from no assistance to a great deal of assistance so don’t take it for granted that everyone on a pedelec is at full boost all the time; I spend most of the time at 20% which basically compensates for the additional weight.

 

At a certain speed assistance is cut out; 25 km/h is the limit. Most bicycle riders can reach speed higher than 25 km/h for a limited time without much effort.

 

The same people who pioneered mountain-biking in South Africa are now in their 50s and 60s, and we still like to ride our bikes. Pedelecs allows us to continue to do something that we’ve always loved to do despite the physical challenges that come with age; something that younger folks are not going to get. My pedelec will extend my mountain biking by another 15 years.

 

In my opinion the limited speed and power of pedelecs makes them okay to use on trails with other cyclists, however I do not agree with mixing then up with other cyclists in races unless they are grouped in a different class without interfering with the other cyclists on the race day.

 

So you are just using the power to compensate for the weight?

 

If so why dont you just get a lighter bike, as in one without an engine?

[Headshot]

So you are just using the power to compensate for the weight?

 

If so why dont you just get a lighter bike, as in one without an engine?

Yes, there is a logic failure there, or a big fat fib.

 

If I ride an eBike, I damn well want to go fast up hill, not at the same speed as my ordinary bike.

[Grease_Monkey]

You can adjust the level of assistance from no assistance to a great deal of assistance so don’t take it for granted that everyone on a pedelec is at full boost all the time; I spend most of the time at 20% which basically compensates for the additional weight.

 

I don't buy that. I've spent many hours on an ebike now, and at 20% assistant I get to the top of Helderberg in 30mins with relative ease compared to 50mins on my normal bike going flat out... No setting on an ebike just compensates for weight. Edited June 13, 2018 by Grease_Monkey

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

I don't buy that. I've spent many hours on an ebike now, and at 20% assistant I get to the top of Helderberg in 30mins with relative ease compared to 50mins on my normal bike going flat out... No setting on an ebike just compensates for weight.

And that Helderberg hill is a *** one. 

[Tony datoy]

So you are just using the power to compensate for the weight?

 

If so why dont you just get a lighter bike, as in one without an engine?

I've just sold my Pyga and I've still got my hardtail in the garage. The Levo is great fun and it's what I choose to ride.

[Tony datoy]

I don't buy that. I've spent many hours on an ebike now, and at 20% assistant I get to the top of Helderberg in 30mins with relative ease compared to 50mins on my normal bike going flat out... No setting on an ebike just compensates for weight.

It all depends on your age, weight and fitness level. My friend weighs 45kgs and she flys uphill on her pedelec, whereas it takes me much longer to get my 110kgs there. Basic physics.

[Shebeen]

Clutching at straws and flogging your own dead pony?

 

The fact is that the industry has attempted to make motorised bikes cool by calling them "E" . They are in reality, that is, plain English, Motor-bicycles. 

 

 

a)have you ridden and e-bike, and decided that they are just schmarketing and actually not that cool.

b)have you read your own signature recently?because this e-bike debate is VERY much like the wheelsize one...

 

There is no debate - ride what the **** you feel like... Skill and fitness trump wheel size 24/7.

 

 

ps. pretty cool that you got trump in your sig before admin banned the word!

[Patchelicious]

a)have you ridden and e-bike, and decided that they are just schmarketing and actually not that cool.

b)have you read your own signature recently?because this e-bike debate is VERY much like the wheelsize one...

 

There is no debate - ride what the **** you feel like... Skill and fitness trump wheel size 24/7.

 

 

ps. pretty cool that you got trump in your sig before admin banned the word!

eBike vs bicycle is not the same as 27.5 vs 29er

 

“Ride what you like, who cares. Race what is fair”

 

But that’s a *** argument.

Edited June 13, 2018 by Patchelicious

[Grease_Monkey]

It all depends on your age, weight and fitness level. My friend weighs 45kgs and she flys uphill on her pedelec, whereas it takes me much longer to get my 110kgs there. Basic physics.

I'm 100kg plus and unfit... I fly up no matter what the setting. I've got no issues with e-bikes - just dnt race them. I did a whole long essay post on my opinion a while back so I won't again. E-bikes are kief and fun and and... - but they have no place in a race with normal mtbs.

Edited June 13, 2018 by Grease_Monkey