WTF CSA?

[DieselnDust]

I can't argue against your point but this represents perhaps 10% of cycling in SA and until CSA recognise this they're on a hiding to nothing. They need to find a way of giving something back to 90% of us otherwise CSA membership will remain a grudge purchase.

 

 

Although i too would like to see more of the giving back thingy you mention, CSA is a government body, subsidiary to the SASCOC. See  http://www.sascoc.co.za/members/page/2/

 

Then in the constitution of the CSA clause 12: 

"12. Cycling SA shall manage its internal affairs with total independence and ensure that no third party interferes with its operations. Accordingly, Cycling SA shall remain autonomous and resist all political, religious and financial pressure which may infringe its commitment to abide by the Constitution of the UCI and it shall report to the UCI any external form of interference or attempt at interference."

 

I.e. it should not have sponsors for the funding of operations outside of the National or local government. Equipment sponsors are a different matter.

 

So from a funding perspective, National Government has to provide the funding to run the organisation. Its this way with all other federations.

 

As for representing only 10% of the cycling community....I can't fully agree. There's direct representation and indirect representation. 

The 10% may be direct since these are the guys with racing licenses.

The 90% may be the rest of us but we do switch on to RedBull.TV to watch South Africans participate in World Champs for road, TT and MTB as well as the major Races around the world. Even though the CSA has not supported those SA riders financially, whether direct or through facilitation /introduction to sponsors, they do provide the grassroots racing platform that has enabled those riders to reach the level they are operating at. Without a CSA those riders would hold licenses from other countries cycling federations.

 

What we should be screaming for is good governance and funding for the CSA from Local and National government. But the reality is that until we have more cyclists capable of operating at the level our World Tour and U23 XCO riders are operating we won't get more funding.

 

So in the short term, we have to fund that and hold CSA accountable. Only way to do that is to operate through your regional Cycling body and through your local club.

 

Remember in the not so distant past, PPA was structured under CSA as the recreational body but PPA didn't like this too much because of the state of financial ruin CSA was in. PPA acted to protect the interests of its members ......but did it really. Unintended consequences?

[River Rat]

Although i too would like to see more of the giving back thingy you mention, CSA is a government body, subsidiary to the SASCOC. See  http://www.sascoc.co.za/members/page/2/

 

Then in the constitution of the CSA clause 12: 

"12. Cycling SA shall manage its internal affairs with total independence and ensure that no third party interferes with its operations. Accordingly, Cycling SA shall remain autonomous and resist all political, religious and financial pressure which may infringe its commitment to abide by the Constitution of the UCI and it shall report to the UCI any external form of interference or attempt at interference."

 

I.e. it should not have sponsors for the funding of operations outside of the National or local government. Equipment sponsors are a different matter.

 

So from a funding perspective, National Government has to provide the funding to run the organisation. Its this way with all other federations.

 

As for representing only 10% of the cycling community....I can't fully agree. There's direct representation and indirect representation. 

The 10% may be direct since these are the guys with racing licenses.

The 90% may be the rest of us but we do switch on to RedBull.TV to watch South Africans participate in World Champs for road, TT and MTB as well as the major Races around the world. Even though the CSA has not supported those SA riders financially, whether direct or through facilitation /introduction to sponsors, they do provide the grassroots racing platform that has enabled those riders to reach the level they are operating at. Without a CSA those riders would hold licenses from other countries cycling federations.

 

What we should be screaming for is good governance and funding for the CSA from Local and National government. But the reality is that until we have more cyclists capable of operating at the level our World Tour and U23 XCO riders are operating we won't get more funding.

 

So in the short term, we have to fund that and hold CSA accountable. Only way to do that is to operate through your regional Cycling body and through your local club.

 

Remember in the not so distant past, PPA was structured under CSA as the recreational body but PPA didn't like this too much because of the state of financial ruin CSA was in. PPA acted to protect the interests of its members ......but did it really. Unintended consequences?

This is where it all falls flat. The more you state rules and regulations the less interested I am, I really only want to ride my bike. I love watching Saffers on the world stage but I am not obsessed with it, I really only want ride my. You want me to volunteer to fix a problem that's not mine, I really only want to ride my bike!

[Sharkie 2]

This is where it all falls flat. The more you state rules and regulations the less interested I am, I really only want to ride my bike. I love watching Saffers on the world stage but I am not obsessed with it, I really only want ride my. You want me to volunteer to fix a problem that's not mine, I really only want to ride my bike!

So you love watching Saffers on the world stage?

They sadly won't be able to compete if it was not for CSA's existence. We can not enter any riders into World Cups if your organisation is not recognised by the UCi. 

[DieselnDust]

This is where it all falls flat. The more you state rules and regulations the less interested I am, I really only want to ride my bike. I love watching Saffers on the world stage but I am not obsessed with it, I really only want ride my. You want me to volunteer to fix a problem that's not mine, I really only want to ride my bike!

Well then you have no dog in the fight so why comment? You have no vested interest in racing or fun ride events so maybe the energy is better used for trail advocacy?

Edited October 4, 2018 by DieselnDust

[Milkman]

This is where it all falls flat. The more you state rules and regulations the less interested I am, I really only want to ride my bike. I love watching Saffers on the world stage but I am not obsessed with it, I really only want ride my. You want me to volunteer to fix a problem that's not mine, I really only want to ride my bike!

Well good for you .

You don’t think that’s a bit selfish towards the people that do take this sport seriously and do and and try and compete internationally though ?

Edited October 4, 2018 by Milkman

[Frosty]

.....competent volunteer management. Just like clubs.

 

Who on this thread are currently in any cycling club management structure?

I’ll be the first to reply to your question - and you know the answer, as do a number of others.

[Frosty]

Additional comments, not relevant to the previous post.

 

First year that I am not a member of CSA, and that won’t change until positive change happens at the region, province and CSA.

 

What does my region do? At the moment, absolutely nothing. They don’t even reply to emails, Whatsapp messages or phone calls from the event organiser’s contacts, let alone suggestions to make a change.

 

Will I volunteer to run another crit series? No. Too much red tape involved - one decent event per year is enough, and even that is becoming too time consuming with growing moans about how expensive it is to enter. Unfortunately, to have all the requirements in place costs money... and certainly isn’t a money making business like some people think it is.

 

Many people I speak to just want to ride their bike, preferably in a safe environment. A few want to race, while many just want to take part (race against their mates) in a timed-event.

[shaper]

Biggest issue is that CSA have lost trust and credibility with mismanagement and fingers in the pie!!

 

Did they do what was necessary and clean house, remove those who caused the situation and loss of respect?.... alas NO !!  Just shuffled paper, made a few minor changes, and carried on as normal....

 

So, people wonder why there is such reluctance and animosity to CSA.... yet it is plain to see why!!

 

Whilst CSA do very little to change that and regain credibility, the status quo will not change!!

[ChrisF]

Well then you have no dog in the fight so why comment? You have no vested interest in racing or fun ride events so maybe the energy is better used for trail advocacy?

 

ME - right now I have absolutely no dog in this fight ... all I care about NOW is to ride the occasional "fun ride".  Yet a fair number of these "force" me to pay a CSA "tax" ....  ALL I know of CSA is the bad press about our cyclists having to pay their own way to take part over seas .... hardly the "type" that I want to give my money to .... but since I dont have a dog in this fight I just watch from the sideline ....

 

 

but time moves on ... thus "now" is a very temporary situation .... who knows how\if Maritz progresses in this sport .... maybe I do have a dog in this fight in a few years ....so just maybe I am watching closely how this "system" unfolds ..... HOPING that those truly passionate about the SPORT manages to turn the tide.

 

 

Which leaves me with a couple of conundrums ....

 

- my financial support ... do the "good guys" need my support ?  

 

- my practical support ... what can I do to contribute to a better future for "cycling in SA", with or without CSA ?

 

 

 

o-well, for now I will just watch from the sidelines, and HOPE Rolling Stone manages to be a positive force, and that he hangs in there ...

[Tankman]

One of my friends spotted it this year and sent it to me, including the bit about commissaires not being legal if they were spotted at the event (which I found very weird??)

 

I also found it weird at first but after thinking about it for a while ....

 

"Please note that if a qualified Cycling South Africa Commissaire is however present at the non-sanctioned event, they are posing as an official illegally and Cycling SA cannot be held liable for any post-race issues that may arise."

 

It sounds more like a legal wizz playing with words on what the courts might have ended up saying to CSA after loosing the case:

 

 

"If the event is not sanctioned, you have no business being there"

 

 

 

So how do they know the licensed riders are actually present at the race and taking part?

 

Agents!! ??

[Kranswurm]

I also found it weird at first but after thinking about it for a while ....

 

"Please note that if a qualified Cycling South Africa Commissaire is however present at the non-sanctioned event, they are posing as an official illegally and Cycling SA cannot be held liable for any post-race issues that may arise."

 

It sounds more like a legal wizz playing with words on what the courts might have ended up saying to CSA after loosing the case:

 

 

"If the event is not sanctioned, you have no business being there"

 

 

 

So how do they know the licensed riders are actually present at the race and taking part?

 

Agents!! ??

Results??

[Tankman]

Results??

 

From Nicky's story, it looks like she was still at the event, just after finishing, she got handed a phone call.

 

 

Results, would not be caught red handed and I would tell them to stick it "my wife used my chip by mistake" ... or just "forget" your chip at home and your name wont come up 

Edited October 4, 2018 by Tankman

[Kranswurm]

From Nicky's story, it looks like she was still at the event, just after finishing, she got handed a phone call.

 

 

Results, would not be caught red handed and I would tell them to stick it "my wife used my chip by mistake" ... or just "forget" your chip at home and your name wont come up

That's dishonest

[nathrix]

CSA reminds me of the EFF, a bunch of thugs using intimidation tactics, throwing the rule book at you only when it suits them.

[Eugene]

So you love watching Saffers on the world stage?

They sadly won't be able to compete if it was not for CSA's existence. We can not enter any riders into World Cups if your organisation is not recognised by the UCi.

Remember a few years back when CSA was the cause that no SA riders went to world's.

 

They sent a substandard team to Africa Champs and SA didn't earn enough points to qualify for world's.

[Tankman]

That's dishonest

 

Ok ok, I would not really do that, last time I held a licensed was in 2010, so I wont get into that situation. 

Just trying to make a point that there will be some grey areas with results.

 

 

It still leaves me wondering how they hand out the fines, at the event, if they are not legally allowed to be present.