The Gender Thread

[Patchelicious]

Exactly! This "did you mean XYZ" is bloody infuriating and doesn't help a discussion at all.

It is better than “so you are saying...” but it’s still not ideal.

[Odinson]

So what happens when you match a TG on Tinder. Vok... that did just happen and i was told halfway into quite a flirtatious conversation....

 

Just go with it. You were having fun, no? 

[Odinson]

Does anyone know how, ahem, functional, a reassigned tottie/veejay is? 

[gummibear]

Does anyone know how, ahem, functional, a reassigned tottie/veejay is?

Chatted to a gynecologist once and he said that most men won’t know the difference when it has a bit of lube[emoji85][emoji1787]

[Rocket-Boy]

So I have always wondered about something... why is it that every case I have heard of where someone is trans they are always attracted to the sex they were born as?

 

Could it be that for eg they were born male but were actually female and therefore not gay before but just born as the wrong sex?

 

Such pondering, such things.

[Shebeen]

 

my contribution to the thread

[DR ◣◢]

We are all human. End of story.

[Crash Gordon]

If you have a penis you are male.....if you have a vagina then you are female.What's there to discuss?

This cannot end well

[Mamil]

A few thoughts about gender.

 

A small percentage of people are born with a strong sense of having been born into a body of the wrong sex. This is a real phenomenon - the causes are not established. There are some ideas about the sensitivity of sex hormone receptors, the hormonal environment in utero and some vaguely defined environmental factors. 

 

Such people face unique challenges in the formation of a positive identity particularly if their family and social contexts have rigid ideas about gender and sexuality. There is no doubt that such people should be free to identify themselves as their nature reveals itself to them and that our global culture should move towards allowing such identification without judgement or mockery.

 

At the same time - the existence of such individuals and our capacity to recognise and respect them as people striving to express themselves should not be construed as evidence to abandon the binary classification of people into two genders. By this I mean that it is perfectly possible to respect and honour a trans person's identification as the gender that they experience themselves to be without insisting that a trans woman is actually a woman or that a trans man is actually a man.  To interpret the statement that a trans woman is not actually a woman as a violation of that person's rights or an invalidation of their lived experience of their own womanhood is wrong-headed. 

 

As Germaine Greer has wryly observed, she could get a doctor to sew on a pair of floppy ears and a wagging tail and it would not make her a cocker spaniel. She could behave like cocker spaniel, believe herself to be a cocker spaniel but it would not actually make her one.

 

Another point to consider is that there are numerous ways in which identity formation, including gender identity can be disrupted and compromised. Chief amongst these is exposure to what is termed complex trauma - usually in the form of repeated physical, emotional and sexual abuse in childhood. Such complex trauma leads to difficulties in the formation of a stable sense of self, deficits in emotional regulation, chronic feelings of shame, self doubt and guilt. Often this involves ambivalence regarding one's gender identity and sexual preference.

 

Such people are not transsexual per se but, because trans sexuality is emergeing as a strong identity that includes rejection of established norms of gender and sexuality, this identity becomes attractive to such people. That is to say, because the complex trauma has disrupted the formation of stable identity, these people are in desperate need of a sense of self that identification with a defined group can provide.

 

I believe that many of the people on social media who claim to represent trans people fall into this latter category and again and I believe it is probably very bad for our culture to allow this disproportionately loud voice to lead the way in defining values and norms around sex, gender and sexuality.

 

Also, it is quite normal for a child to experiment to varying degrees with their own gender. This is part of the process of figuring out the differences between the sexes and the way in which gender is construed in the environment. Also, part of ongoing and lifelong development is to nurture in oneself the virtues and characteristics of the opposite gender and this process can begin in childhood. 

 

The statement "raise someone as a girl/boy" is virtually meaningless. I have no doubt that we are creatures who grow towards the light in the same way that an oak tree is contained in the acorn. Perhaps a parent's job comprises two parts - one the inculcation of values, practices and disciplines that foster health and a second that involves allowing space and a loving gaze under which a child's nature can reveal itself to us and to the child - probably the latter is the most important. In the massively remote chance that your child reveals a self that is trans then your job is allow that without "raising the child as a boy or girl" or insisting that they not be trans. Both of those strike me as tyrannical responses.

 

Interesting though that Charlize is the one who steps into the opening that the very fashionable debate around gender has created

 

That's all for now. 

[Thor Buttox]

A few thoughts about gender.

 

A small percentage of people are born with a strong sense of having been born into a body of the wrong sex. This is a real phenomenon - the causes are not established. There are some ideas about the sensitivity of sex hormone receptors, the hormonal environment in utero and some vaguely defined environmental factors.

 

Such people face unique challenges in the formation of a positive identity particularly if their family and social contexts have rigid ideas about gender and sexuality. There is no doubt that such people should be free to identify themselves as their nature reveals itself to them and that our global culture should move towards allowing such identification without judgement or mockery.

 

At the same time - the existence of such individuals and our capacity to recognise and respect them as people striving to express themselves should not be construed as evidence to abandon the binary classification of people into two genders. By this I mean that it is perfectly possible to respect and honour a trans person's identification as the gender that they experience themselves to be without insisting that a trans woman is actually a woman or that a trans man is actually a man. To interpret the statement that a trans woman is not actually a woman as a violation of that person's rights or an invalidation of their lived experience of their own womanhood is wrong-headed.

 

As Germaine Greer has wryly observed, she could get a doctor to sew on a pair of floppy ears and a wagging tail and it would not make her a cocker spaniel. She could behave like cocker spaniel, believe herself to be a cocker spaniel but it would not actually make her one.

 

Another point to consider is that there are numerous ways in which identity formation, including gender identity can be disrupted and compromised. Chief amongst these is exposure to what is termed complex trauma - usually in the form of repeated physical, emotional and sexual abuse in childhood. Such complex trauma leads to difficulties in the formation of a stable sense of self, deficits in emotional regulation, chronic feelings of shame, self doubt and guilt. Often this involves ambivalence regarding one's gender identity and sexual preference.

 

Such people are not transsexual per se but, because trans sexuality is emergeing as a strong identity that includes rejection of established norms of gender and sexuality, this identity becomes attractive to such people. That is to say, because the complex trauma has disrupted the formation of stable identity, these people are in desperate need of a sense of self that identification with a defined group can provide.

 

I believe that many of the people on social media who claim to represent trans people fall into this latter category and again and I believe it is probably very bad for our culture to allow this disproportionately loud voice to lead the way in defining values and norms around sex, gender and sexuality.

 

Also, it is quite normal for a child to experiment to varying degrees with their own gender. This is part of the process of figuring out the differences between the sexes and the way in which gender is construed in the environment. Also, part of ongoing and lifelong development is to nurture in oneself the virtues and characteristics of the opposite gender and this process can begin in childhood.

 

The statement "raise someone as a girl/boy" is virtually meaningless. I have no doubt that we are creatures who grow towards the light in the same way that an oak tree is contained in the acorn. Perhaps a parent's job comprises two parts - one the inculcation of values, practices and disciplines that foster health and a second that involves allowing space and a loving gaze under which a child's nature can reveal itself to us and to the child - probably the latter is the most important. In the massively remote chance that your child reveals a self that is trans then your job is allow that without "raising the child as a boy or girl" or insisting that they not be trans. Both of those strike me as tyrannical responses.

 

Interesting though that Charlize is the one who steps into the opening that the very fashionable debate around gender has created

 

That's all for now.

Knowing as I do your profession, I hope many others read this and take it as seriously as they would medical advice from V12...

 

Or as you took MTB advice from a wise man... And then totally disregarded it.

 

People are strange.

[Mamil]

One piece of advice I remember you shouting at out as I nervously picked my way down Lombard's terra for the first time was "Get some air on that". 

 

I didn't and still ended up flat on my back looking up at a semi circle of concerned looking faces.

 

 

Knowing as I do your profession, I hope many others read this and take it as seriously as they would medical advice from V12...

Or as you took MTB advice from a wise man... And then totally disregarded it.

People are strange.

[Shebeen]

 

highlights package. Transgender women may not compete in women's rugby.

the historical size and force advantages from a transition make it an injury danger to biological female players.

[Grass Muncher]

Transgender people commit suicide in alarming rates from 36% to 50% in an ncbi article that I read.

I feel sorry for them.

[Tuxstir]

Transgender people commit suicide in alarming rates from 36% to 50% in an ncbi article that I read.

I feel sorry for them.

 

from all the stories and articles etc I've seen Transgender People Have a high suicide rate both before and after transitioning.

its a complicated subject

the whole nurture vs nature argument is based of the John/Joan case, basically twins at birth 1 had an accident and lost his penis, was raised as a girl and was claimed a success as proof that nurture was the way..

later on, the twin, Now Joan found out the truth and re-transitioned to a boy (nature). as Joan always felt like John.

 

Conclusion if you not happy and really are believe you are in the wrong body.. go for it.

However. this whole transgender issue has become too trendy, and In places like the US and UK, too easy just to say your now X instead of Y, without proper examination by a trained psychologist, I think is the real problem,  it should not be promoted the way it is, its not a fashion symbol but a deep and lasting and sometime traumatic experience and should be treated as such.

[Chris_]

Rather than derail the running thread I'll put this here. Eddie Izzard has just completed 32 marathons in 31 days so is in the news a bit. What I didn't know is that Eddie recently asked to be called by she/her pronoun. 

 

The articles I've seen are honouring that, but social media is obviously more umm strongly opinionated.

 

I really applaud/praise Eddie for always pushing the gender boundaries in main(ish)stream since forever ago. It must be so lifechanging for normal people who are 'internalising' through similar decisions to see some high profile support and vocalisation, and potentially a teeny bit of acceptance.

[Eldron]

Rather than derail the running thread I'll put this here. Eddie Izzard has just completed 32 marathons in 31 days so is in the news a bit. What I didn't know is that Eddie recently asked to be called by she/her pronoun.

 

The articles I've seen are honouring that, but social media is obviously more umm strongly opinionated.

 

I really applaud/praise Eddie for always pushing the gender boundaries in main(ish)stream since forever ago. It must be so lifechanging for normal people who are 'internalising' through similar decisions to see some high profile support and vocalisation, and potentially a teeny bit of acceptance.

I don't get it. I ask people to call me Eldron..."Hello Eldron". If I asked them to call me she then it all goes pear shaped.

 

Keep your judgement in your pocket and respect the person.

 

It ain't that difficult.