What would you be willing to pay for a “grey” bike?

[Edge_Design]

I see CRC coincidentally have bikes with very similar specs to that from a European brand that isn't supported here. The prices also appear materially lower than you are quoting. If that is more than a coincidence then why would someone not just order from there themselves? What value are you adding to justify anything more than an admin fee? Local support would answer that but you don't appear to be offering that. 

Keep in mind that everyone knows how to use Google so if someone can get it themselves for less than you are asking then you have to ask why they would pay you more.

[TNT1]

I dunno. Trek have that battleship grey looking colour scheme on some new bikes, I'm not a fan.

At least make it a nice glossy gunmetal colour.

Or stick to matt carbon.

[Mountain Bru]

46 minutes ago, DonatelloOnPinarello said:

I’m loath to mention that at this point in the discussion, as there are a number of hypotheticals that need to be addressed first.
 

Suffice to say they do have a number of riders competing in the EWS and UCI world cup - both XC and Downhill on their frames, and have a Continental World Tour Team as well on the road side. 

I think this is probably the most important consideration in this whole discussion though. The stickers on the frame really matter in terms of desirability, and therefore what I'm willing to pay. For example.... The same spec Giant and Spez will have wildly different prices in the classifieds , let alone if Spez decided to save money on stickers and just write S-Works on it. There's a S-Works stumpy HT for R45k for sale at the moment. Would your brand have enough street cred to overcome the S-Works delusion?

I know the classifieds is the 2nd hand market though, but also probably the place where you'll be advertising your bikes, so you've gotta picture your bike alongside all the other stuff in the classifieds and ask yourself if you have a product that really distinguishes itself from the competition based on "brand-love" or price.
Personally, I don't think the hardtail at R40k will sell much. It's too close to dual sus money, and you have the problem that if someone is willing to drop R40k on a new bike, they can probably scratch a bit more together and buy a dual sus. Or otherwise they'll be happy with a R20k hard tail. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think the market for high-end/expensive hardtails is that big in SA. 

You didn't mention the frame material either? For R50k, you can almost get a carbon dual sus here.... So I assume you're importing carbon frames too? But again, throwing R50k at the classifieds can get you a really nice bike second hand, so you'll have to hope that almost on on "brand loyalty" alone, you're able to win customers. Even though your bikes would be new, without a dealer network and support etc, it's very similar to buying second hand.   
 
But if I was you, my business model for this would be to advertise the bikes with a 1 month lead time, require a deposit (maybe using bikehubpay so there's no risk), not try to make too much per bike, and then only order bikes once the buyer has paid the deposit. That way, you'll basically eliminate the risk of sitting with stock you can't sell. You might loose a sale or 2 due to the lead time, but if the brand is desirable, I think there will be guys who won't mind waiting if they're getting a good deal. I mean people order stuff from overseas and use the post office for delivery, and then you're not even guaranteed you're gonna get the stuff, so I don't think waiting 3 or 4 weeks for a bike you love is a problem. 

But if the brand isn't desirable, none of this matters because no-one is gonna overlook the "main brands" to buy an obscure brand at R40k - R50k

Edited August 5, 2021 by Mountain Bru

[BaGearA]

WITH NO WARRANTY SUPPORT  max 35k and that's when I'm comparing it to A Privateer 141 XT build

[Pure Savage]

49 minutes ago, Sid the Sloth said:

Do they make gravel bikes? I am looking for a frame...

This guy

[shaper]

Technically, if you are importing a brand and then giving a warranty, it is no longer a grey bike as you are now the distributor?

[The Ouzo]

another way to ask the worth of the bikes, what do they retail for in Europe ?

We know an x euro bike would cost y Rands if bought from an SA retailer, so using that knowledge it might be easier to gauge if your prices are in the ball park for a grey import of that brand

[jatho]

10 minutes ago, shaper said:

Technically, if you are importing a brand and then giving a warranty, it is no longer a grey bike as you are now the distributor?

Offering a local warranty on a parallel import does not then by default mean you're the distributor. 

Parallel importing means you're importing a product without the consent or knowledge of the intellectual property owner, local warranty has no bearing on the outcome of this.

[DonatelloOnPinarello]

1 minute ago, ouzo said:

another way to ask the worth of the bikes, what do they retail for in Europe ?

We know an x euro bike would cost y Rands if bought from an SA retailer, so using that knowledge it might be easier to gauge if your prices are in the ball park for a grey import of that brand

For the hardtail: About 2200Eur

For the dual sus: About 2550Eur

[AdamA]

2 hours ago, DonatelloOnPinarello said:

If you were in the market for a trail bike today, would you:

A. Be willing to wait three weeks for delivery?

B. Pay those sort of prices for a imported bike with no local dealer network.

 

a. Yes

b. No

Are they Carbon or Aluminium? 

 

[DonatelloOnPinarello]

42 minutes ago, BaGearA said:

WITH NO WARRANTY SUPPORT  max 35k and that's when I'm comparing it to A Privateer 141 XT build

So, you want to pay R35k max, for a bike that compares to another grey/direct import with no local warranty support, that costs upwards of R70K? That’s a bit of a stretch I would think.

1 hour ago, Edge_Design said:

I see CRC coincidentally have bikes with very similar specs to that from a European brand that isn't supported here. The prices also appear materially lower than you are quoting. If that is more than a coincidence then why would someone not just order from there themselves? What value are you adding to justify anything more than an admin fee? Local support would answer that but you don't appear to be offering that. 

Keep in mind that everyone knows how to use Google so if someone can get it themselves for less than you are asking then you have to ask why they would pay you more.

Remember though, the pricing you see on CRC is excluding shipping (about R6k if you want to avoid the post office, their regular shipping option of about R2500 is via parcel force, and the SA post office handles it on this side), and also excluding 15% import duty and 15% Vat. Our prices would be all inclusive.

[Super Sywurm]

If you just tell us what bikes it is, you will most definitely get a positive or negative answer out of your targeted market.

 

[Hairy]

1 hour ago, DonatelloOnPinarello said:

Fully understand that, but this is just a hypothetical discussion at this point, to gauge what the kind of price point is that people are willing to pay for a mid spec trail bike from a non mainstream brand. Not wether you are interested in buying a specific bike. This is not an advertisement, just a discussion 

 

maybe is should frame the question to you differently: would you be willing to buy a grey import trail bike? If yes, what price range are you willing to pay for a grey import of a mid spec 140mm trail bike? 

If  you are bringing in a brand such as Pole then damned yes I would be interested .... but if it is just a copy paste brand then no.

[AdamA]

 

2 hours ago, DonatelloOnPinarello said:

The hardtail is specced as follows: Fox 34 With Rhythm Damper(130 on 29, 140 on 27.5), SLX 12 Speed, a brand x dropper, WTB 30mm Tubeless rims, and Schwalbe tubeless tires (Magic Mary/Hans Dampf combo - 2.6 on 27.5 and 2.4 on 29er), and Shimano Deore 4 piston brakes on 180mm rotors front and rear

Dual susser would have the same drivetrain and brake set up, but with a Marzochi bomber up front and RS Monarch rear (140mm front and rear on both the 29 and 27.5)

 

Please be aware MT501 is 2 piston , MT520 is 4 Piston.  

[Mountain Bru]

47 minutes ago, DonatelloOnPinarello said:

So, you want to pay R35k max, for a bike that compares to another grey/direct import with no local warranty support, that costs upwards of R70K? That’s a bit of a stretch I would think.

Remember though, the pricing you see on CRC is excluding shipping (about R6k if you want to avoid the post office, their regular shipping option of about R2500 is via parcel force, and the SA post office handles it on this side), and also excluding 15% import duty and 15% Vat. Our prices would be all inclusive.

Dude I'm gonna start importing cars. Will you pay R700 000 for them? 

Promise they're good. Other people drive them in other countries, some even race with them.

They have Michelin tyres, and leather seats. 

Promise they're worth R1.4mil if you compare them with cars that cost R1.4mil.

Are you starting to see how pointless this discussion is without knowing the brand? If it's a Ferrari I'm selling, absolute win. If it's a wang chong fui with ferrrary stickers on it, not so much. 

Edited August 5, 2021 by Mountain Bru

[eddy]

Regarding local support: 

 

At one stage, not sure before or after EK was involved, a local Canyon owner had a problem with a frame.

 

My LBS sent a picture of the damage to Canyon with a report, they authorised him to destroy the frame (cut the BB out) and when he sent them a foto of the destroyed frame they shipped a new one. It took a day or two.

Maybe you can work a similar kind of plan with your manufacturer.