Downhill Riders,including current SA National Champ, overlooked for World Champs

[Headshot]

8 minutes ago, PregoRoll said:

Go read the response I was replying to. The funding was referring to the "costs to CSA are just the stamp" which is false. 

for the most part, riders that go to WC and Olympics are self funded. thats not the issue here. 

The issue everyone is bleeting about is the lack of riders from the DH category. Which with all due respect to the speed merchants we have in SA, they arent at the level of WC riders. Why should CSA be expected to spread themselves thin for an opportunity for someone to say "I rode at WC"? I certainly didnt get that chance when I went overseas with the SA Team for road. It was down to the best riders who could get there. Simple. 

There is no Privateer category at World Champs... but there is one at the World Cup. I wonder if that is so the Privateers can have a chance to earn enough UCI points to be up for selection for the World Champs squad? 

 

Here is a small snippet from the requirements, let me know who of the riders in SA could achieve this, at the most competitive DH race of the year. 

33.2.1. Riders meeting standards and results capable of achieving the following results at the 2024 UCI World Championships.

33.2.1.1. Elite Men – Top 15

33.2.1.2. Elite Women – Top 10

33.2.1.3. Junior Men – Top 20

33.2.1.4. Junior Women – Top 10

 

Anyway. im done with this thread 

They are at the level or better than many WC riders. This is a sport where only 30 make the finals.  Just as you were the best SA had to offer on the road, so these guys are the best SA has to offer in DH. By the way, where did you come in the world champs?

[BaGearA]

5 minutes ago, Headshot said:

They are at the level or better than many WC riders. This is a sport where only 30 make the finals.  Just as you were the best SA had to offer on the road, so these guys are the best SA has to offer in DH. By the way, where did you come in the world champs?

okay by what measurement ?

[PregoRoll]

4 minutes ago, Headshot said:

They are at the level or better than many WC riders. This is a sport where only 30 make the finals.  Just as you were the best SA had to offer on the road, so these guys are the best SA has to offer in DH. By the way, where did you come in the world champs?

Someone didnt read my post. well done

 

Anyway. Good luck to the riders that made selection! HinHin!

[DieselnDust]

7 minutes ago, Headshot said:

I put the ball in your court ...

that's unfair, you haven't elaborated on what the hurdles are.

I can tell you that Luke and Tyler's parent have made MASSIVE sacrifices for them to be in the position they are in. Candice and Darren have based themselves in Europe at huge expense, shes a privateer and staying in Europe is what is needed to succeed. Daniel and Luca are also literally breaking the bank to race over there with parental support. i think your comment needs you to unpack it so that theres context.

 

[Danger Dassie]

1 minute ago, DieselnDust said:

that's unfair, you haven't elaborated on what the hurdles are.

I can tell you that Luke and Tyler's parent have made MASSIVE sacrifices for them to be in the position they are in. Candice and Darren have based themselves in Europe at huge expense, shes a privateer and staying in Europe is what is needed to succeed. Daniel and Luca are also literally breaking the bank to race over there with parental support. i think your comment needs you to unpack it so that theres context.

 

Someone else's sacrifices has nothing to do with another, stop drawing false equivocations. All the riders are generally supportive of one another across disciplines. 

[DieselnDust]

1 minute ago, Danger Dassie said:

Someone else's sacrifices has nothing to do with another, stop drawing false equivocations. All the riders are generally supportive of one another across disciplines. 

I don't follow....

 

 comment was made about sacrifices being bigger on the DH side. I drew out that others also make huge sacrifice and somehow theres a false Equivocation...???

This has nothing to do with us vs them. This is a process discussion, one that the agrieved parties supporters have not even begun to unpack other than claiming injury. Right now its abit like England looking for a penalty while 2-1down to Spain

[Headshot]

3 minutes ago, DieselnDust said:

that's unfair, you haven't elaborated on what the hurdles are.

I can tell you that Luke and Tyler's parent have made MASSIVE sacrifices for them to be in the position they are in. Candice and Darren have based themselves in Europe at huge expense, shes a privateer and staying in Europe is what is needed to succeed. Daniel and Luca are also literally breaking the bank to race over there with parental support. i think your comment needs you to unpack it so that theres context.

 

I strongly suspect that all the XCO riders even Candice have more support from local sponsors as a result of the XC bevok nation we live in. The "race that measures all" has seen to that. 

Imagine if it was the other way around as it is in most other countries, with gravity orientated riding predominating. 

 

 

[Headshot]

11 minutes ago, DieselnDust said:

I don't follow....

 

 comment was made about sacrifices being bigger on the DH side. I drew out that others also make huge sacrifice and somehow theres a false Equivocation...???

This has nothing to do with us vs them. This is a process discussion, one that the agrieved parties supporters have not even begun to unpack other than claiming injury. Right now its abit like England looking for a penalty while 2-1down to Spain

Not sacrifices - hurdles. All the parents from GM on down have had their hands full and bank accounts emptied. 

[Shebeen]

6 minutes ago, Headshot said:

I strongly suspect that all the XCO riders even Candice have more support from local sponsors as a result of the XC bevok nation we live in. The "race that measures all" has seen to that. 

 

I can answer that with the title picture from the article that lead this discussion.

The winner at SA champs has to do a shoey with JC le Poo to celebrate! Come on, most people wouldn't even degrease their chains with that stuff.

 

https://bikenetwork.co.za/unusually-small-sa-team-dh-world-championships/

 

 

[Danger Dassie]

Just now, DieselnDust said:

I don't follow....

 

 comment was made about sacrifices being bigger on the DH side. I drew out that others also make huge sacrifice and somehow theres a false Equivocation...???

This has nothing to do with us vs them. This is a process discussion, one that the agrieved parties supporters have not even begun to unpack other than claiming injury. Right now its abit like England looking for a penalty while 2-1down to Spain

Comparisons were made even before then, as you say it shouldn't be us/them, so no need to compound it by commenting about specific sacrifices from athletes.
Plus your own posts,  despite denying it were loaded with spiteful/snide comments, like now even about penalties. There's no place for any of it.
It would be better for HS to say what the challenges are, although I could believe DH has bigger challenges by default due to the small scene here and limited entry points to the sport. Which means far fewer sponsorship opportunities to enable riders to breakthrough. 

Along the 'process of discussion,' it has actually been unpacked through a number of posts here and online. 
The CSA criteria does seem questionable overall, I mean those top tier placing requirements alone would exclude most riders even from the top nations. Which begs the question, while these high level expectations are set for the riders. Who sets those? Do they have the prerequisite institutional experience to say these are the criteria? 
Arguably not. This leaves us in an embarrassing stalemate that doesn't serve anyone and is actually a failure in many respects.

Objectively; there isn't really a fundamental reason to field at least two more riders in the elite field. SA Champ and one other. This would also mean we have an elite presence/mentors on site for our juniors. I get that having slots "isn't a guarantee" but it makes no sense to discourage participation, by it's it's very nature participation will generate a more competitive/higher performing field. 

IMHO CSA have over the last few years been making a concerted effort with their own challenges and this shouldn't overshadow that or the team representing SA. But this needs to be dealt with openly and honestly between the riders and CSA, not opaque side stepping. 

[DieselnDust]

25 minutes ago, Headshot said:

I strongly suspect that all the XCO riders even Candice have more support from local sponsors as a result of the XC bevok nation we live in. The "race that measures all" has seen to that. 

Imagine if it was the other way around as it is in most other countries, with gravity orientated riding predominating. 

 

 

this may or may not be true because there is also a lot of "for show" in XCO where companies get their name on a jersey for a couple of grand in entry fees, cost price product or discounted labour for maintenance. There isn't a lot of money flowing around through riders personal sponsors until they get to a national elite level. may of the U23's below are sponsorred by their parents. Admittedly, the pot is bigger and therefore less than a e.g.  top 3 performance still delivers a return.

Even if it is true, its because a sponsor will see more value or synergy in XCO than DH. Many company's SHEQ departments will outright veto sponsorship of extreme sports due to risk of injury and death. Some scorecards will list it as a recordable event. So yes DH gets a raw deal, where Enduro would get a freerier pass. and XCO easy pass through. That's just how the world works and we really should be grateful for a company like Red Bull that actively seeks out high risks sports and showcases them.

[Jewbacca]

hahahaha 

This thread has escalated. 

World champs isn't for 'learning' it's for medal hunting. 

If you're upset because you weren't selected AND didn't hit the qualifying criteria then tiny violins and the saddest song in the world.

Does anyone here fighting for the cause really believe that CSA should send 'also rans' because principle or are they just being emotional because of the perceived plight of others through 'injustice'?

[Danger Dassie]

11 minutes ago, Jewbacca said:

hahahaha 
Class. 

This thread has escalated. 

World champs isn't for 'learning' it's for medal hunting. 

It's both and an opportunity worth taking advantage of.

If you're upset because you weren't selected AND didn't hit the qualifying criteria then tiny violins and the saddest song in the world.

Does anyone here fighting for the cause really believe that CSA should send 'also rans' because principle or are they just being emotional because of the perceived plight of others through 'injustice'?

No one is being "emotional" a number a good points have been raised with objective motivations. sans the sarcasm, violins and all. 
 
How YOU want to talk to people is a a reflection on you, something you were quick to snark about towards someone else a few days about their in person character. Either stick to the actual topic with a level of maturity or don't bother. 

 

[Jewbacca]

@Danger Dassie I've not been rude to or about anyone in particular.

The governing body has selected a team based on criteria and performance. The whole very argument is based on allowing people to go who didn't hit the criteria but 'Feel' they should be included because we have the slots.

The very thought of taking people who didn't qualify or get selected to go by the governing body is due to an emotional response on social media by those snubbed.

Anyway, I'm out. 

This isn't my fight, I didn't make the selection, nor have I been snubbed.

My opinion in obviously unpopular as I don't believe World Champs is a place for also rans knowing they are going to be also rans.

I also don't believe in on line petitions to overturn decisions that will ultimately cost someone a hefty chunk of money for very little return in the context of the competition 

❤️

[J Wakefield]

Greg is the only rider who should be going for South Africa in the discipline.
Selection was done correctly.
Good luck Greg bring it home. 

[chrisstafford20726@gmail.com]

One wonders why anyone would want to be an administrator when the backlash is this harsh? 
The vast majority of administrators involved in cycling and mtb in particular are volunteers and do it for the benefit of the riders. If they walk away from all of this the problems faced by mtb riders in SA would extend well beyond national team selection for elite DHI men. 

The administrators have to apply a predetermined rules framework that is no doubt monitored by SASCOC, and they can’t deviate. If anyone wants to change the framework then it would be best for them to get involved at administration level, right?

Let’s remember that it’s the administrators at all levels (national and provincial) that keep the wheels turning. Let’s appreciate them and do our homework before we start crucifying them.