Downhill Riders,including current SA National Champ, overlooked for World Champs

[Hairy]

22 hours ago, Irvin85 said:

Why is he not riding the UCI downhill events? Do he stand a chance of medaling? 

A flat 100m sprint track is a 100m flat sprint track.

Not all DH tracks are made equal, and the race in SA are nowhere near the level as that overseas.

 

[Headshot]

5 minutes ago, Hairy said:

A flat 100m sprint track is a 100m flat sprint track.

Not all DH tracks are made equal, and the race in SA are nowhere near the level as that overseas.

 

This segways back to my statement that DH racers from SA face bigger hurdles than their XC)/marathon/roadie counterparts. 

How many pro DH racers come to SA over summer to train here? Absolutely none or if any do, its not for training but promo work like Greg. Why not? Because we lack shuttle and chairlift assisted DH tracks of a suitable standard. Where do they go - places like New Zealand's South Island.

How many XCO racers including top names. come to Cape Town in particular to train - lots and lots. Why, because its terrain and trails are made for it. Nino. Keller and others are often here in summer. 

So, CSA and other punters on this forum including the XC coach, how are SA talents supposed to compete and meet criteria imposed by an organization that appears to hardly understands downhill racing given the dearth of training venues available to them in SA?

Far tooo many high horses being ridden by too many people quoting this and that from the CSA without understanding the context or the nature of DH racing in SA. 

[BaGearA]

14 minutes ago, Headshot said:

This segways back to my statement that DH racers from SA face bigger hurdles than their XC)/marathon/roadie counterparts. 

How many pro DH racers come to SA over summer to train here? Absolutely none or if any do, its not for training but promo work like Greg. Why not? Because we lack shuttle and chairlift assisted DH tracks of a suitable standard. Where do they go - places like New Zealand's South Island.

How many XCO racers including top names. come to Cape Town in particular to train - lots and lots. Why, because its terrain and trails are made for it. Nino. Keller and others are often here in summer. 

So, CSA and other punters on this forum including the XC coach, how are SA talents supposed to compete and meet criteria imposed by an organization that appears to hardly understands downhill racing given the dearth of training venues available to them in SA?

Far tooo many high horses being ridden by too many people quoting this and that from the CSA without understanding the context or the nature of DH racing in SA. 

No one said there isn't hurdles 

 

Go over for the british downhhill series or even the windrock series in America. That fact that they are located in SA which does not have the depth of racing to develop them to WC podium contenders is not SA,CSA,UCI or any geographically challenged person's fault

 

 

Many foreign races that will test and develop our riders.

 

 

The above however is no reason for someone who DID NOT qualify to go to world champs

[Headshot]

It means that the criteria that road/XC biased CSA have in place for selection in DH are probably poorly thought out in that they fail to take the famous "hurdles" and nature of DH racing as opposed to road and XC into account. 

 

https://bikenetwork.co.za/csa-dont-see-this-from-a-riders-point-of-view/

Edited July 17 by Headshot

[stringbean]

I understand all this but more importantly “what is his Argus time”

[Irvin85]

All I hear is the reasons why it is so difficult for them to qualify and get over to do the races, but then there is this unknown guy called Greg Minnaar, who with all the challenges mentioned that all the other SA guys faces some how managed to get into the major events and made his performances count for him to secure sponsors and help him to get to where he is now. If he managed to do all that he did what is the excuses of the other guys?

[DieselnDust]

3 hours ago, Headshot said:

This segways back to my statement that DH racers from SA face bigger hurdles than their XC)/marathon/roadie counterparts. 

How many pro DH racers come to SA over summer to train here? Absolutely none or if any do, its not for training but promo work like Greg. Why not? Because we lack shuttle and chairlift assisted DH tracks of a suitable standard. Where do they go - places like New Zealand's South Island.

How many XCO racers including top names. come to Cape Town in particular to train - lots and lots. Why, because its terrain and trails are made for it. Nino. Keller and others are often here in summer. 

So, CSA and other punters on this forum including the XC coach, how are SA talents supposed to compete and meet criteria imposed by an organization that appears to hardly understands downhill racing given the dearth of training venues available to them in SA?

Far tooo many high horses being ridden by too many people quoting this and that from the CSA without understanding the context or the nature of DH racing in SA. 

so what you're asking of CSA is to relax the criteria for athletes selection across the DH discipline due to being geographically and topographically disadvantaged?

Sidenote: Claiming CSA is Road and XCO biased is incorrect. The focus does go into disciplines where the participation levels are higher and that includes BMX. The Road, XCO/XCM and BMX discplines do attract much larger entries, produce more world standard athletes and yes, therefore will receive more attention and hence will also drive the quality barometer or standard that is applied. However bias implies a negative discrimination which is not correct. Selection criteria apply to all sporting disciplines and the performance expectation is applied similarly.

 

Back to relaxed selection criteria for DH. Current selection criteria templates are driven by the IOC and the UCI. This is to set a minimum level of skill for athletes to compete at the highest levels of sport, i.e. The World Championships and Olympic Games. If the bar is set too low then the organisers run a high risk of injury at the event. So the bar is set and  National Federations have to adopt or risk sending athletes that are below par. Some do in various sports, my reference to Eddie the Eagle refers, there are numerous other examples where a qualifying criteria was applied, the athlete met that but was still completely out of their depth.

In the DH case it does not appear to be competency issue but rather not meeting the criteria for reasons that have still not been articulated. I read a post this morning that WCDH only became aware of the selection criteria in March 2024 when these were published in December 2023. Why was there a delay? Then the dialogue for change only started? But CSA says the criteria are similar to that applied in 2022?

Then why did athletes intending to go to Worlds, not meet the selection criteria? The same article refers to allowing athletes to go because they are already in Europe. If they are there, why did they not participate in qualifying events over there? None of these questions are being answered so I'm checking out but with a rant of my own.

 

I actually feel like maybe I should join the hard done by bandwagon, since I feel severely discriminated against being  the sole coloured slalom white water kayaker and have no facilities to practice. SASCOC should surely make an exception and send me to the Olympics because I have the passion but will never qualify because I'm not in Europe and I don't have a local slalom series to prepare me. The Olympics will be a great place to learn and bring back skill...

 

 

 

Edited July 17 by DieselnDust

[Headshot]

2 minutes ago, DieselnDust said:

so what you're asking of CSA is to relax the criteria for athletes selection across the DH discipline due to being geographically and topographically disadvantaged?

Sidenote: Claiming CSA is Road and XCO biased is incorrect. The focus does go into disciplines where the participation levels are higher and that includes BMX. The Road, XCO/XCM and BMX discplines do attract much larger entries, produce more world standard athletes and yes, therefore will receive more attention and hence will also drive the quality barometer or standard that is applied.

 

Back to relaxed selection criteria for DH. Current selection criteria templates are driven by the IOC and the UCI. This is to set a minimum level of skill for athletes to compete at the highest levels of sport, i.e. The World Championships and Olympic Games. If the bar is set too low then the organisers run a high risk of injury at the event. So the bar is set and  National Federations have to adopt or risk sending athletes that are below par. Some do in various sports, my reference to Eddie the Eagle refers, there are numerous other examples where a qualifying criteria was applied, the athlete met that but was still completely out of their depth.

In the DH case it does not to be competency issue but rather not meeting the criteria for reasons that have still not been articulated. I read a post this morning that WCDH only became aware of the selection criteria in March 2024 when these were published in December 2023. Why was there a delay? Then the dialogue for change only started? But CSA says the criteria are similar to that applied in 2022?

Then why did athletes intending to go to Worlds, not meet the selection criteria? The same article refers to allowing athletes to go because they are already in Europe. If they are there, why did they not participate in qualifying events over there? None of these questions are being answered so I'm checking out but with a rant of my own.

 

I actually feel like maybe I should join the hard done by bandwagon, since I feel severely discriminated against being  the sole coloured slalom white water kayaker and have no facilities to practice. SASCOC should surely make an exception and send me to the Olympics because I have the passion but will never qualify because I'm not in Europe and I don't have a local slalom series to prepare me. The Olympics will be a great place to learn and bring back skill...

 

 

 

Stop, you're making me cry with your in no way relevant comparisons to play to the audience on this thread.  

[Headshot]

25 minutes ago, Irvin85 said:

All I hear is the reasons why it is so difficult for them to qualify and get over to do the races, but then there is this unknown guy called Greg Minnaar, who with all the challenges mentioned that all the other SA guys faces some how managed to get into the major events and made his performances count for him to secure sponsors and help him to get to where he is now. If he managed to do all that he did what is the excuses of the other guys?

Greg is 42, started racing when the R was about 3 to the dollar and now has a home in Andorra and full team support. He is super talented but the guys over there at the moment are also the best we have in SA at the moment, not some no hopers who can barely ride a bike, like most on this thread, me included. 

I'd like the biggest team of the best riders representing SA at the worlds. Why don't you? 

[Vishal72]

10 minutes ago, Headshot said:

Greg is 42, started racing when the R was about 3 to the dollar and now has a home in Andorra and full team support. He is super talented but the guys over there at the moment are also the best we have in SA at the moment, not some no hopers who can barely ride a bike, like most on this thread, me included. 

I'd like the biggest team of the best riders representing SA at the worlds. Why don't you? 

If the guys are not happy with the selection criteria, what selection policy would you suggest ?

these rules should not be subjective and should apply to everyone

There are 5 spots and Greg got 1, there are 6 other riders how do you decide who gets to go ? 

[Irvin85]

8 minutes ago, Headshot said:

Greg is 42, started racing when the R was about 3 to the dollar and now has a home in Andorra and full team support. He is super talented but the guys over there at the moment are also the best we have in SA at the moment, not some no hopers who can barely ride a bike, like most on this thread, me included. 

I'd like the biggest team of the best riders representing SA at the worlds. Why don't you? 

World champs is not a numbers game, is for the cream of the crop. I would rather have no one there than have 10 guys that basically just make up the numbers and takes the last 10 spots on the rankings. 

There should really only be one from each country except if the second and third rider is also ranked in the top 20 of the world. Then only should they be considered.  It is a exclusive club and representing your country should be reserved for only the best. 

[Sally E Kirk]

Unfortunately CSA set a precendent in the last two years of upholding the non-selected riders' appeals and said riders got to ride at World Champs in Les Gets (2022) and Fort William (2023).  This year, CSA, for whatever reason, has decided not to show the same discretion/leniency towards the appeals.

[Shebeen]

1 hour ago, Irvin85 said:

All I hear is the reasons why it is so difficult for them to qualify and get over to do the races, but then there is this unknown guy called Greg Minnaar, who with all the challenges mentioned that all the other SA guys faces some how managed to get into the major events and made his performances count for him to secure sponsors and help him to get to where he is now. If he managed to do all that he did what is the excuses of the other guys?

Do you follow cricket? GM is like Shane Warne, a once in a few generations freak. Australia were wrist spin bedonnered for 15 years and none of the kids who came through the systems are even close to what he was.

 

GM is called the GOAT for a reason. I don't think CSA had much to do with his development and I doubt they would have found another one even if Patrice Motsepe put all his soccer money into downhill., but we did have 2 Grundig world cup events in stellenbosch that brought the world stage here at a crucial time in his development, which is probably a massive stroke of luck..

[SwissVan]

1 hour ago, Irvin85 said:

All I hear is the reasons why it is so difficult for them to qualify and get over to do the races, but then there is this unknown guy called Greg Minnaar, who with all the challenges mentioned that all the other SA guys faces some how managed to get into the major events and made his performances count for him to secure sponsors and help him to get to where he is now. If he managed to do all that he did what is the excuses of the other guys?

I can’t answer your question about Greg but I do believe that racers (any discipline) need to spend at least an entire season overseas travelling and living the racers life to build up their skill, fitness and experience. 
 

I’ve said it before, if I win the euro lotto I would buy a farmhouse somewhere in EU where talented Saffa cyclists could base themselves at no cost to themselves so they can come and stick a toe in the water here…..

Coming over for one event like WC is not enough, this policy has been tried and it does not work.

[rock]

1 hour ago, Irvin85 said:

All I hear is the reasons why it is so difficult for them to qualify and get over to do the races, but then there is this unknown guy called Greg Minnaar, who with all the challenges mentioned that all the other SA guys faces some how managed to get into the major events and made his performances count for him to secure sponsors and help him to get to where he is now. If he managed to do all that he did what is the excuses of the other guys?

Martin Whitely saw the talent at the 1997 (or 98?) stellenbosch world cup and got some Swiss Francs from the UCI that was available for african cycling development.....got him to more events overseas and the rest is history.

[rock]

*was 1998 - he got 28th as a 16 year old