To wield or not to wield

[GlockG4]

Should fit into your back pocket easily. Glocks are quite compact. Remember to always carry id licence with you. When riding in groups try and ride at the back. it is easier to react to trouble ahead. Gone are the days of enjoying the view. Now we ride to spot the BASTARDS. Safe cycling. A little tip, practise shooting with both hands incase you hurt your trigger finger.

It might be a bit heavy, and you will definitely print (which is ok islf your ok with it) but I would be scared that it will come out in a crash. But great excuse for not working in the front.

[davem]

Any suggestions on how to mount a German Shepherd onto my bike. They seem pretty effective. Could you use a Gaermin mount?

 

But a little more seriously, I won my last fight by at least 100m. Any weapon you choose should be to buy you time to flee, not to overpower the aggressor.

[Pah Bear]

Must admit most people make lots of sense and some ... are sprouting advice not suitable to most lay people. We all live by the choices we make. Will not tell anyone what they should do. Have not been in the situation myself (Thank God). Most cyclists are weight weenies and here we talking of carrying Glocks, Batons, Knuckle thingies, etc.

 

How Many Grams?

 

Be safe everyone. Be alert, Be expectant and Ride Fast.

[Patchelicious]

The idea of bunch of agro, sleeveless jock MTBers arguing over who has right of way on narrow trails, having access to guns doesn't sounds like a great idea.

 

Cyclist shooting each other about not holding lines is far more likely than somebody shooting a bikejacker.

[canadonis]

You mention that the legal system does not allow you to take lethal action unless you are in immediate danger. This is only partly true. You have to RESONABLY think that your own or anyone near you could be killed if you do not react with deadly force, be it a firearm, knife, pipe or your fists.

You mention that the attacks will be a surprise. I agree totally that it will most likely be a surprise, but vigilance is key to minimise that risk. When you are caught by surprise, and take a tumble, sure they might jump you immediately and you might be injured, but being injured does not take you out of the fight. The human body and mind is a lot tougher that you think. Remember there is a difference between getting surprised and handing over your belongings and being in a fight for your life when they pushed you off the bike and started stabing or what ever.

With regards to your home invation, firstly glad to hear that you and your family are ok. When you are confronted by a burglar in your own home, the law does not expect you to flee your home or give up. It is reasonable to think that they are there to hurt you and your family. You mentioned that they ran as soon as they saw you, this will most definitely now always be the case, and who is to say they were not running towards your child's room to use her has a hostage?

Remember you only have to RESONABLY think their/your life is in danger. You will most probably have to defend your reasoning, so do not defend your plasma tv with deadly force, you will most probably go to jail, and I do not believe personally that the burglar deserves to die because he stole something from me. Also remember that a policeman is not the law, and he most probably knows less about it that you.

When I am confronted while on my bike, I would HOPEFULLY realise that there is an unlawful attack on my person and would draw my firearm and defend myself. When someone jumps infront of me like in the infamous gopro video, I would look to escape or I will use my firearm. When I am surprised and pushed off my bike on a downhill I would not get up and engage them, I would let them take my bike and leave, however when I am lying in the floor and he stabs me or hacks me with his panga he will be shot. Like I said, being stabed or shot or what ever does not necessarily mean you are out of the fight.

My approach to this is the following: I have a firearm, I am well trained in using it, I made sure I know the law regarding my firearm and when I am allowed to use it. I truly hope that I do not have to use it, but I am more that prepared to do so if need be. That need is defined by the protection of my or my loved ones' life, NOT the protection of my property. Now I am not willing to bet on the nice attacker's humanity to just take my bike and leave me unharmed.

Look as I said I hear your argument and I guess we are all pretty gatvol of the levels of crimes being experienced especially as cyclists.

It has affected my frequency of riding as before I would get on th bike go a quickie but the risk an the effort to get a group together I jut not worth it.

 

I honestly wish there were alternatives to carrying weapons ..like a care free completely safe environment in which to cycle. It's really sad as I basically stay on table mountain and the convenience is second to none.

 

Maybe your approach will work and hopefully after a few muggers are killed this will deter more from entering this 'profession'

 

Good luck and more importantly be safe out there as it really has become a jungle out there.

[porqui]

Bring it on !!

[Pah Bear]

"Patchelicious"

Cyclist shooting each other about not holding lines is far more likely than somebody shooting a bikejacker.

 

Thought did not even cross my mind, but ... with so much road rage, God forbid we now get people agro enough to shoot fellow cyclists who did something stupid (like what happens in races all the time). Lordy lord, this frightens me more.

 

No motorist take to the road armed thinking his shooting the next guy that cuts him off, and then ... he gets cut off and ... boom.

[Yusran]

No firearm and won't ride with one

 

But am considering a TIPX paintball handgun with pepperballs

Tried that... It's far too bulky to carry (chest rig, thigh holster... the marker itself is simply huge) so pepper spray or nothing at all.

 

If the situation allows (I am daydreaming btw) keep your bike between you and your assailant, and treat it as both a sword and shield.

[BigDL]

Don't fool yourself that paintball guns and pepper sprays work. I have seen people sprayed, shocked etc and continue their aggression. Someone high on drugs can resist a lot. Not saying they don't have a place, but don't think they provide anything near total defense. Ultimately, if you decide someone needs to be stopped, a firearm is really the only solution, but make sure that you know how to handle it and that you train constantly for real life situations. A man is no more armed because he has a gun than he is a musician because he has a guitar

[Eddy Gordo]

Its one thing to have a gun and another to use it with out the other party being able to take it off you and using it on you.

 

Adding a gun into the equation is a whole new level of destruction.

 

I am not pro gun or against it. They do have their place etc. I wouldnt take a gun cycling cause if I am attacked and knocked unconscious for example. The assailant could get my gun. However I fish as well, and things are just as bad when we stand on the beach. People get mugged, cars broken into or even stolen. This is when a gun is company. No surprise attack and we always see wanna be perps approaching and it is always one up

[Matchstix]

I'd say this much for fighting back, and being the 68kg yellowbelly with dreams of being a sniper to equalise criminals.

Saw a teenager on Tuesday in hospital, that was attacked when he tried to protect his sister. I only saw his face.

He was fish hooked. Stiches from is mouth sideways,5cm long 2 more on the same side of same length above and below. On the side of his head on the other side cut that is stitched up 20cm long.

When I asked if he got in a few good shot? He smiled and said " baaaie"

[V18]

Reviving an old thread.

The other day, as some of you may know, I was bike-jacked at knife point (insured bike). From the moment the guy appeared to be up to no good to the point at which I could have reacted was about 3s. I have a decent first shot on target time when I carry (standing-appendix carry). That being said. So many factors come to mind in odd situations like this. Mainly the attackers intent (theft primarily), the backstop (traffic/civilians) and legal repercussions (likely jail time if I could not prove my life was in danger or I injured anyone in the process). Reaction time more like 5s then. 

I feel having a situation ender (firearm) readily available is important in situations where we are met with dangerous assailants. I just feel that there should be something in between "f#**#f" and ruining two people's lives. Thats why I am opting for a less lethal (pepper/nylon ball launcher) option as my primary response from now on. For when I'm not  convinced I'm getting stabbed/chopped or have some distance. 

That being said, is giving the bike away and not escalating the situation not a better approach in general? 

I'd like to hear from you all what your approach is to the armed robber. Note, not panga swinging cray-cray man. That's obvious. 

Do you, like myself, completely appease his majesty, or do you have a few tricks up your sleeve to increase chances of bike retention at the potential cost of escalating the situation?

Yours truly. 

A guy second guessing giving his bike away. 

Edited February 20, 2023 by V18

[Mamil]

1 hour ago, V18 said:

Reviving an old thread.

The other day, as some of you may know, I was bike-jacked at knife point (insured bike). From the moment the guy appeared to be up to no good to the point at which I could have reacted was about 3s. I have a decent first shot on target time when I carry (standing-appendix carry). That being said. So many factors come to mind in odd situations like this. Mainly the attackers intent (theft primarily), the backstop (traffic/civilians) and legal repercussions (likely jail time if I could not prove my life was in danger or I injured anyone in the process). Reaction time more like 5s then. 

I feel having a situation ender (firearm) readily available is important in situations where we are met with dangerous assailants. I just feel that there should be something in between "f#**#f" and ruining two people's lives. Thats why I am opting for a less lethal (pepper/nylon ball launcher) option as my primary response from now on. For when I'm not  convinced I'm getting stabbed/chopped or have some distance. 

That being said, is giving the bike away and not escalating the situation not a better approach in general? 

I'd like to hear from you all what your approach is to the armed robber. Note, not panga swinging cray-cray man. That's obvious. 

Do you, like myself, completely appease his majesty, or do you have a few tricks up your sleeve to increase chances of bike retention at the potential cost of escalating the situation?

Yours truly. 

A guy second guessing giving his bike away. 

You're alive and not in prison awaiting bail. Your insurance will replace bike. You're not dealing with the emotional complications of having hurt someone or the consequences of getting hurt yourself.

As someone prone to the imprudent choices made when the red mist descends myself, I would say you indisputably did the best possible thing under the circumstances.

Glad you're ok

[Me rida my bicycle]

I have not been bike jacked but I have been hi jacked the main difference is we tend to think and if you think and try something your hurt or dead. They don't think of any consequences and don't care about your life so their reactions will be quicker 90% of the time. I don't gamble but the odds of coming out on top is slim. 

My idea would be to pretend to comply and get of my bike and then use the bike as a weapon. I think if I take my +-10kg bike by the fork and swing it full force with the crank or cassette as the impact zone it could do some serious harm worst case scenario he connectes the tyre but even that should put him on his a$$. 😂 Please don't try this it's just my over active immigration when I'm riding on my own and talking to myself 😂😂

[FirstV8]

I carry a 9mm pepper spray pistol in my right back pocket  ( holds 6 blank 9mm cartridges ). When fired the sound is of a firearm so its frightening to the criminal  as well as hopefully will scare them into running off . I had a Germán Shepard come out of a open gate a few weeks ago chasing me . It was on a slight down hill so had the advantage of some speed but it stayed trying to bite me . I carry it with one up , safety off but not cocked . In one move movement i took it out , while pulling the hammer back ( i have practiced this many times ) and fired a shot at the snarling demon who immediately yelped and ran onto the pavement . The owner was coming out his driveway in his car and had followed the dog . The confrontation with the owner was almost worse than with the dog as he thought i had shot and wounded his dog . When i had convinced and shown him that it was a pepper spray blank that the gun shoots he immediately asked where i had bought it and if one needs a license to own one . It saved me that day and a trip to the hospital for stiches and  a tetanus  shot . 

[Harryn]

Wow, so hectic. Sorry this happened to you.

i plugged the conundrum into chatGPt, who opines as follows:

 

”I'm sorry, but I cannot provide a statistical success rate for defending against a bike jacking attack by being armed and not scared to use it against one's assailant in Johannesburg, South Africa.

There are several reasons for this:

Reliable statistics on the success rate of such defense strategies are hard to come by as not all incidents are reported to the police, and even when they are reported, the outcome may not be recorded accurately.

Success rates can vary depending on many factors, including the skill of the defender, the type of weapon used, the specific circumstances of the attack, and the level of training and experience of the attacker.

It's important to note that the use of force, even in self-defense, is subject to legal restrictions and consequences, and there is no guarantee that a defender who uses a weapon will not face legal repercussions.

In general, it's best to prioritize prevention and situational awareness to avoid being targeted in the first place. This may include taking precautions such as avoiding high-risk areas or times of day, being aware of your surroundings, and having a plan in case of an attack.”

 

anyway, I think you did the right thing. You’re alive (physically) unhurt and should be shopping for a new bike.

so, where does one buy such a pepper ball pistol. And do you need a license to carry it? 

 

I'm sorry, but I cannot provide a statistical success rate for defending against a bike jacking attack by being armed and not scared to use it against one's assailant in Johannesburg, South Africa.

There are several reasons for this:

1. Reliable statistics on the success rate of such defense strategies are hard to come by as not all incidents are reported to the police, and even when they are reported, the outcome may not be recorded accurately.

2. Success rates can vary depending on many factors, including the skill of the defender, the type of weapon used, the specific circumstances of the attack, and the level of training and experience of the attacker.

3. It's important to note that the use of force, even in self-defense, is subject to legal restrictions and consequences, and there is no guarantee that a defender who uses a weapon will not face legal repercussions.

In general, it's best to prioritize prevention and situational awareness to avoid being targeted in the first place. This may include taking precautions such as avoiding high-risk areas or times of day, being aware of your surroundings, and having a plan in case of an attack.