To wield or not to wield

[V18]

Haha!

Novel use of ChatGPT for sure! Not a bad answer at all.

I opted for the Byrna as it is one that doesn't require two hands to start shooting. 

I carry it in a chest pack (cerberus tac) with the one size zipped down for right hand access. Loaded with nylon and pepper alternating. Have commuted now a few times without drawing any attention and its a neat way to keep my phone close by.

The Tippman Tipx is too big and heavy. The Umarex HDR/HDP require a firm tap on the base to puncture the C02. The rest are rather expensive. Have a look on dye-hard website.

It certainly wont replace a real firearm, but from what I've seen in the area, anything more than an mild inconvenience for these attackers who want to make a quick buck without a scene is enough of a deterrent. Once he/they realize its an overpowered BB pistol you need to be GONE...or armed with something more substantial. I'll choose the "GONE" route as I'm too pretty and soft for prison.

For close-up surprises like this one, I now have Sabre Red pepper spray (flip top version) velcro'd to left backpack strap.

Anyways. Bike shopping.

Looking forward to reading everyone's "paraat" ideas.

[Robbie Stewart]

1 hour ago, FirstV8 said:

I carry a 9mm pepper spray pistol in my right back pocket  ( holds 6 blank 9mm cartridges ). When fired the sound is of a firearm so its frightening to the criminal  as well as hopefully will scare them into running off . I had a Germán Shepard come out of a open gate a few weeks ago chasing me . It was on a slight down hill so had the advantage of some speed but it stayed trying to bite me . I carry it with one up , safety off but not cocked . In one move movement i took it out , while pulling the hammer back ( i have practiced this many times ) and fired a shot at the snarling demon who immediately yelped and ran onto the pavement . The owner was coming out his driveway in his car and had followed the dog . The confrontation with the owner was almost worse than with the dog as he thought i had shot and wounded his dog . When i had convinced and shown him that it was a pepper spray blank that the gun shoots he immediately asked where i had bought it and if one needs a license to own one . It saved me that day and a trip to the hospital for stiches and  a tetanus  shot . 

Walking on the beach yesterday at Melkbos my 4 y.o. daughter got charged by a german shepherd that the owner allowed to free roam on the beach without a leash. I was about a good 10 paces away and did not manage to intercept the dog before it barreled into my daughter. My wife scooped my kid up who was hysterical by then while the dog was jumping up at her. The owner was calling the dog off to no avail, and I went from 0 to NUCLEAR DEPLOYMENT in less time than it takes for Putin to drop a bomb.

I was all over the guy within seconds weighing up my options to cause severe, grievous, and permanent bodily harm to the owner and then kill his dog. This is why I don't own a firearm. I am the personality type who will end up having to explain why I unloaded half a clip when one round would suffice. To this guy's credit, and despite his stupid attempts at trying to intimidate me, his wife talked me down from going into full attack mode.

Next time I see a dog on a beach without a leash I will not hesitate to harm that animal in the event it poses some level of threat to my family. Then I will end the dog.

But if a moron with a knife wants to take my bike off me while I'm riding then he can have at it. Insurance will buy me another one.

What were we talking about again?

[Fred van Vlaanderen]

I'm terribly sorry about your experience.

You'll probably find a host of opinions about this. I can't tell you what I would have done, because we do act strange in these 2-5seconds life threatening situations and I've surprised myself (for better and worse in these moments) I don't carry anything and I do my utmost best to cycle on routes where I have a very small chance of encountering skollies. Be that as it may, these things can still happen - even where I ride. I'd like to think I would have handed over my bike and walked away unscathed. A fiets is just not worth a stab wound in my opinion.

[Fred van Vlaanderen]

1 minute ago, Robbie Stewart said:

Walking on the beach yesterday at Melkbos my 4 y.o. daughter got charged by a german shepherd that the owner allowed to free roam on the beach without a leash. I was about a good 10 paces away and did not manage to intercept the dog before it barreled into my daughter. My wife scooped my kid up who was hysterical by then while the dog was jumping up at her. The owner was calling the dog off to no avail, and I went from 0 to NUCLEAR DEPLOYMENT in less time than it takes for Putin to drop a bomb.

I was all over the guy within seconds weighing up my options to cause severe, grievous, and permanent bodily harm to the owner and then kill his dog. This is why I don't own a firearm. I am the personality type who will end up having to explain why I unloaded half a clip when one round would suffice. To this guy's credit, and despite his stupid attempts at trying to intimidate me, his wife talked me down from going into full attack mode.

Next time I see a dog on a beach without a leash I will not hesitate to harm that animal in the event it poses some level of threat to my family. Then I will end the dog.

But if a moron with a knife wants to take my bike off me while I'm riding then he can have at it. Insurance will buy me another one.

What were we talking about again?

Yeah, I don't trust the worlds most well trained dog near my kids. I'm a GSD owner myself and keep eyes on him all the time when we play together. Animals and people who act like animals are never to be trusted wholeheartedly. 

[Robbie Stewart]

1 minute ago, Fred van Vlaanderen said:

Yeah, I don't trust the worlds most well trained dog near my kids. I'm a GSD owner myself and keep eyes on him all the time when we play together. Animals and people who act like animals are never to be trusted wholeheartedly. 

it takes a ton for me to go off-the-charts crazy. Yesterday was one of those days, and then it took a very long time for me to come off that plateau of destruction. I don't think I've ever come that close to bare-fisted fury before when I weighed up the consequences of possibly ending up in jail for severe assault and deciding it was worth a go. If not for his wife, who knows what today would have looked like? People need to keep their animals on a leash.

[fanievb]

57 minutes ago, Harryn said:

Wow, so hectic. Sorry this happened to you.

i plugged the conundrum into chatGPt, who opines as follows:

 

”I'm sorry, but I cannot provide a statistical success rate for defending against a bike jacking attack by being armed and not scared to use it against one's assailant in Johannesburg, South Africa.

There are several reasons for this:

Reliable statistics on the success rate of such defense strategies are hard to come by as not all incidents are reported to the police, and even when they are reported, the outcome may not be recorded accurately.

Success rates can vary depending on many factors, including the skill of the defender, the type of weapon used, the specific circumstances of the attack, and the level of training and experience of the attacker.

It's important to note that the use of force, even in self-defense, is subject to legal restrictions and consequences, and there is no guarantee that a defender who uses a weapon will not face legal repercussions.

In general, it's best to prioritize prevention and situational awareness to avoid being targeted in the first place. This may include taking precautions such as avoiding high-risk areas or times of day, being aware of your surroundings, and having a plan in case of an attack.”

 

anyway, I think you did the right thing. You’re alive (physically) unhurt and should be shopping for a new bike.

so, where does one buy such a pepper ball pistol. And do you need a license to carry it? 

 

I'm sorry, but I cannot provide a statistical success rate for defending against a bike jacking attack by being armed and not scared to use it against one's assailant in Johannesburg, South Africa.

There are several reasons for this:

1. Reliable statistics on the success rate of such defense strategies are hard to come by as not all incidents are reported to the police, and even when they are reported, the outcome may not be recorded accurately.

2. Success rates can vary depending on many factors, including the skill of the defender, the type of weapon used, the specific circumstances of the attack, and the level of training and experience of the attacker.

3. It's important to note that the use of force, even in self-defense, is subject to legal restrictions and consequences, and there is no guarantee that a defender who uses a weapon will not face legal repercussions.

In general, it's best to prioritize prevention and situational awareness to avoid being targeted in the first place. This may include taking precautions such as avoiding high-risk areas or times of day, being aware of your surroundings, and having a plan in case of an attack.

 

 

 

 

Jy moet mos weet...

 

The projectile type described by @FirstV8, is not technically a firearm and does not require a license. BUT the "bullet" it uses contains a primer and powder, which, in my humble opinion, falls squarely in the definition as per firearms control act. So you need to be licenced based on use of primers.

The Byrna uses co2 and pepper balls (looks like paintball pellets) and does not produce power outside of the minimum "standards" (caliber, joule, velocity etc) as per the regs and therefore requires no license. 

 

Edit: off topic! werksmans has a nice article on the use of AI in the legal profession 

Edited February 20, 2023 by fanievb

[M L]

4 hours ago, V18 said:

Reviving an old thread.

The other day, as some of you may know, I was bike-jacked at knife point (insured bike). From the moment the guy appeared to be up to no good to the point at which I could have reacted was about 3s. I have a decent first shot on target time when I carry (standing-appendix carry). That being said. So many factors come to mind in odd situations like this. Mainly the attackers intent (theft primarily), the backstop (traffic/civilians) and legal repercussions (likely jail time if I could not prove my life was in danger or I injured anyone in the process). Reaction time more like 5s then. 

I feel having a situation ender (firearm) readily available is important in situations where we are met with dangerous assailants. I just feel that there should be something in between "f#**#f" and ruining two people's lives. Thats why I am opting for a less lethal (pepper/nylon ball launcher) option as my primary response from now on. For when I'm not  convinced I'm getting stabbed/chopped or have some distance. 

That being said, is giving the bike away and not escalating the situation not a better approach in general? 

I'd like to hear from you all what your approach is to the armed robber. Note, not panga swinging cray-cray man. That's obvious. 

Do you, like myself, completely appease his majesty, or do you have a few tricks up your sleeve to increase chances of bike retention at the potential cost of escalating the situation?

Yours truly. 

A guy second guessing giving his bike away. 

Interesting topic. I think me and a lot of others share/shared the view that as long as I’m okay or my family is okay, burglars can take what they want.

But something happened that shook me deeply - now I’m tired of crime and tired of people walking around looking for someone to rob.

This time it’s me, next time it’s a much more vulnerable women or someone’s daughter. The more thieves, murderers, rapists get away with this, the more they’re going to do it. 

I have an obligation towards those around me, so I cannot sit idle anymore. 

I got a Amarex HDP 50 (0.5 cal CO2 gun) and a baton. Will probably cycle with the baton. If someone comes onto our property, I’m shooting (non lethal solid plastic pellets) will ask questions later. If I can’t shoot then I’m going to break bones with the baton.

Enough is enough. 

[M L]

On 8/3/2015 at 4:54 PM, porqui said:

No firearm and won't ride with one

 

But am considering a TIPX paintball handgun with pepperballs

The pepperballs are pretty crap. Go with heavy plastic or solid steel. 
 

The Umarex HDP 50 is around R3,000 on takealot - hy gaan baie seer maak..

[Me rida my bicycle]

The imitation guns are fine on dog and if your attacker only has a knife.

Now the problem comes when you pull a fake and they pull a real gun. It will be at that moment that you realize that you f***** up. 

[Bomberman]

[Steven Knoetze (sk27)]

11 hours ago, Me rida my bicycle said:

I have not been bike jacked but I have been hi jacked the main difference is we tend to think and if you think and try something your hurt or dead. They don't think of any consequences and don't care about your life so their reactions will be quicker 90% of the time. I don't gamble but the odds of coming out on top is slim. 

My idea would be to pretend to comply and get of my bike and then use the bike as a weapon. I think if I take my +-10kg bike by the fork and swing it full force with the crank or cassette as the impact zone it could do some serious harm worst case scenario he connectes the tyre but even that should put him on his a$$. 😂 Please don't try this it's just my over active immigration when I'm riding on my own and talking to myself 😂😂

Freudian slip of note, immigration would be a solution of course......

@V18I think the non-lethal route is an option but you would have the same delay as a lethal weapon. But in attempting to use it you would escalate.
A frame mounted device would help but you would then too be exposed.
Tough one, glad I have never been in that position before and pray I never will be.

[Jewbacca]

Run away. 

Once you fight you are engaging in endless scenarios where there is no real winner. Ever.

Fighting is all well and good until you come up against someone who fights better OR in most cases here, has absolutely nothing to lose.

Give your bike away and run. 

This changes if you are assaulted and must react or die, but to pre-empt violence is just going down a road that invariably ends with everyone losing.

I have a few stab wound scars to prove that fighting back honestly isn't worth it. If you do manage to get a few shots away/rock to the head and kill someone, the emotional trauma is way way way worse than buying a new bike with insurance money. 

Edited February 21, 2023 by Jewbacca
spelling

[Me rida my bicycle]

17 minutes ago, Bomberman said:

Been on sites now for over 16 years and still they won't allow me to use one of the excavators I just want make a small hole but they don't believe me. Maybe our government is dumb enough to let me drive a tank 😂

[Eddy Gordo]

12 hours ago, FirstV8 said:

I carry a 9mm pepper spray pistol in my right back pocket  ( holds 6 blank 9mm cartridges ). When fired the sound is of a firearm so its frightening to the criminal  as well as hopefully will scare them into running off . I had a Germán Shepard come out of a open gate a few weeks ago chasing me . It was on a slight down hill so had the advantage of some speed but it stayed trying to bite me . I carry it with one up , safety off but not cocked . In one move movement i took it out , while pulling the hammer back ( i have practiced this many times ) and fired a shot at the snarling demon who immediately yelped and ran onto the pavement . The owner was coming out his driveway in his car and had followed the dog . The confrontation with the owner was almost worse than with the dog as he thought i had shot and wounded his dog . When i had convinced and shown him that it was a pepper spray blank that the gun shoots he immediately asked where i had bought it and if one needs a license to own one . It saved me that day and a trip to the hospital for stiches and  a tetanus  shot . 

F that, you did not have to explain yourself, your lif was at risk. All this hype around pitbulls, but no one realises how dangerous other dogs are. It is the owners responsibility to keep the animal under control and on a leash when in public. I would of called the cops and let the owner deal with that. 

The blank gun tho is a serious consideration. Been wanting to buy 2 for a longtime now, just not yet.

[amac]

Some years ago I was mugged in the bush at knifepoint. I landed up losing my camelbak, my phone, some cash, tools and tubes. The mugger was intent on taking my bike because he was disappointed at the small return. I was able to negotiate that he leave the bike.

The incident really upset me and for quite a long time. The mugger, while searching through my camelbak left himself open to an attack. I didn't exploit the opportunity. I thought about this quite a lot afterward.

I don't carry anything. I sometimes still ride alone. I think carrying could be more dangerous. I know a guy who was attacked riding past 3 guys that he did not think were going to attack. On a bicycle you too vulnerable. It is too easy for handle bars to be knocked and you have no chance to avoid falling. In which case you could be overwhelmed before you can draw whatever you are carrying.  Worse you could be injured/killed with whatever you were carrying.

What will be...

[Shebeen]

Are you a good guy with a gun! (ok let's be  serious now)

Are you trained in using it with the correct amount of force/scenario plan?

Are you current in keeping up this up?

Are you prepared for the consequences of getting this wrong?

If the answer to any of these questions is no, then don't ride with a gun. (If the answer to all is yes, then you wouldn't be here asking for advice). There are very few situations on bike jacking where you will be successful, BUT  the huge issue is the people who won't get it right. Bikejackings are normally opportunistic even though we are vulnerable. By escalating the level of violence the cycling community stands the risk of bikejackers coming more prepared and/or more violent.

So ja, if you don;t know what you are doing please don't play robocop on your bike - you will be making it difficult for the rest of us.

 

 

In other news I see mr zombie stopper himself Oscar is up for parole next month.