Dopers suck

[rock]

how many world titles did he win while all this juicing was going on?

 

we've had lots a guys sanctioned but no major international results come to mind????

[DrRichard]

Surely we have moved beyond the: "I was test X million times and that proves I am innocent?"  I for one, do not know the details and the circumstances  of the races/tests etc, but using the:  "tested negative = clean" argument is not a good starting point in disputing doping charges IMO. I forget how many tests LA passed and also used this as "proof that he did not dope".  

 

Remember a negative pregnancy test - does not 100% mean you are not pregnant! It just might not be detectable...  (Yet)

[splat]

Bradley Wiggins is back on the mike: Lance Armstrong has been singled out, I see the human side

 

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/bradley-wiggins-lance-armstrong-has-been-singled-out-i-see-the-human-side/

 

 

http://cdn.media.cyclingnews.com/2018/02/21/2/gettyimages_624633496_670.jpg

[Skubarra]

Aaaand going with the whole..your tests are flawed ..but not appealing to the CAS..remember Kreuziger went with that same argument and UCI and WADA eventually dropped the case against him

 

Did a quick google on the whole "altitude training confused for EPO" thing - interestingly a full study on this was done by a Dr Bosch from UCT. The same Dr Bosch was on the disciplinary committee for Max. So Max probably clutching at straws with this defence.

[Shebeen]

Aaaand going with the whole..your tests are flawed ..but not appealing to the CAS..remember Kreuziger went with that same argument and UCI and WADA eventually dropped the case against him

I'm no expert on blood doping, maybe it would be better if Max didn't claim to be one either.

Max doesn't appear to be the sharpest tool in the shed, and he's throwing big stones at the reports, essentially rubbishing them. I doubt they make these claims without being really certain of the charges.

 

 

I think the EXPERTS gathered might be pretty clued up.

 

let's start with the Prof\

 Professor Giuseppe d’Onofrio is one of the world’s leading haematologists working as an expert in the field of the Athlete Biological Passport with considerable experience in reviewing approximately 10,000 blood screening profiles since the early 2000s and having given expert evidence in over 25 disciplinary cases before the Court of Arbitration for Sport and national tribunals. As to the dangers of comparing pre and post-2009 data, Professor D’Onofrio commented: “The Athlete Biological Passport is a new paradigm in the fight against doping, very different to the positive or negative outcome of the traditional detection in urine test. The ABP is a highly technical and complex concept and blood screening data in the context of the ABP must be handled with extreme care, only under a strict regulatory framework and processes established by the World Anti-Doping Agency, failing which it creates a great confusion in the public mind as to what is doping and what is not.”

“The ABP scientific solidity and effectiveness as an anti-doping tool firmly stands on the collection over years of series of longitudinal data in WADA accredited laboratories and on the identification by experts of particular variations of the athletes’ blood picture according to specific patterns that scientists have studied and learnt to recognize in athletes who are manipulating their blood. The process has required several years to be developed. It was possible to start, after several years of meticulous preparation, thanks to the information on doping prevalence that had been scientifically collected in the previous years by IAAF and is currently so solid that not a single athlete has been unfairly accused and sanctioned.”

“In particular, one should refrain from making any authoritative conclusion on individual cases on the basis of a one-off value, let alone when this value has been collected before the formal introduction of the ABP in 2009, when no harmonised and quality control standards were in place to ensure the reliability of the data and no information was collected to ensure any proper interpretation of this data.”

“Ethically, I deplore public comments coming from colleagues on blood data that has been obtained and processed outside of the strict regulatory framework established by WADA which is designed to ensure a complete and fair review of ABP profiles. There is no space for shortcuts, simplistic approaches or sensationalism when athletes’ careers and reputations are at stake”.

then there's Dr Morkeberg, who has been doing this for a while

Armstrong’s blood values from the Tour de France deviate from the normal pattern of blood values. This type of pattern can stem from blood doping, says one of Denmark’s leading blood researchers

Jakob Mørkeberg, blood researcher at Bispebjerg Hospital in Denmark has been looking thoroughly at Lance Armstrong’s blood values during this year’s Tour de France where he came in third.

According to the Danish researcher, Armstrong’s blood values show a highly unusual pattern during the Tour. 

 

“What we know from previous test results from  the Tour de France, hard exercise will cause a decrease  in these blood values, this is not what we see when looking at Armstrong’s tests values,” Mørkeberg explains.

 

 

a/prof Andrew Bosch

http://www.essm.uct.ac.za/ESSM/Andrew_Bosch is a C rated scientist.

 

and then we all know dr Jeroen.

[Mousea]

Sharp tool or not.

 

Why did it take so long for them to pull the plug?

[Patchelicious]

Sharp tool or not.

 

Why did it take so long for them to pull the plug?

Does that make him any less guilty?

[Andrew Steer]

I see Max is not taking this lying down.

 

There is a letter posted on his FB profile from his Lawyers.

 

I say Go for it MAX

I remember you believed and backed BS too... 

 

Can I sell you some of this?

 

 

This stuff is so good it's banned in 69 countries, has been known to take hours off your Argus time and can even prevent cracking on a Canyon top tube no matter how much you try to tuck it up...

[Skubarra]

Sharp tool or not.

 

Why did it take so long for them to pull the plug?

 

Because he did not test positive for a substance that makes it an easy guilty verdict?

 

Clearly anomalies in your blood passport takes time to emerge and takes skilled scientists to identify. And the whole process would have to stand up in court if the athlete decide to go that route.

 

We should actually give SAIDS some credit for pulling off a catch like this, have you read the transcripts from the hearing? So techinical I couldn't understand 3/4's of it... 

[Mousea]

I remember you believed and backed BS too... 

 

Can I sell you some of this?

 

snake oil.png

 

This stuff is so good it's banned in 69 countries, has been known to take hours off your Argus time and can even prevent cracking on a Canyon top tube no matter how much you try to tuck it up...

Yes Andrew.

And I still say BS got screwed by a badly run system

[Mousea]

Does that make him any less guilty?

I haven't got a clue.

But if someone is guilty Pull the plug.

Why keep it going on and on ?

Can they actually prove that he was doping other than the Passport BS.

[Velouria]

This section:

 

reminds me of this:

 

Lawyers trying to do science.

[Patchelicious]

I haven't got a clue.

But if someone is guilty Pull the plug.

Why keep it going on and on ?

Can they actually prove that he was doping other than the Passport BS.

Perhaps it’s due process? Perhaps Max appealed and fought it hard? If they rushed it wouldn’t you be upset about that too?

[Patchelicious]

I haven't got a clue.

But if someone is guilty Pull the plug.

Why keep it going on and on ?

Can they actually prove that he was doping other than the Passport BS.

The passport anomalies is the proof. Edited October 19, 2018 by Patchelicious

[Pure Savage]

Could it also be that one of those 'whistle blowers' was one of his suppliers that admitted to supplying or assisting in the doping? Would then explain the variations in the passport.

[Mousea]

Perhaps it’s due process? Perhaps Max appealed and fought it hard? If they rushed it wouldn’t you be upset about that too?

Patch you have me wrong.

If you find something abnormal get a second EXPERT opinion.

Then fire his ass.

But this took 32/34 Sample to get it correct.

Naaa

Edited October 19, 2018 by Mousea