Do eBikes belong on the mountain?

[aquaratza]

I love the SL. It gives you the flexibility of having a battery (sun's going down, someone got hurt, etc.) but it's so light it feels like a Stumpy.

Only bad thing about the SL is that it's super noisy compared to the full Levo. I haven't tried yet but I suspect I'd struggle to keep up with a normal Levo on an SL.

You can also remove the internal battery from an SL and take the extender battery in hand luggage on an aircraft (what are those anyway). The SL will run off the extender battery solely so this makes it air transportable.

Edited March 3, 2022 by aquaratza

[Headshot]

I think the damage caused by eBikes is probably quite hard to separate from that caused by normal bikes on most trail systems. Tokai is one of the busiest in the country for all types of bikes which makes it even harder. The Gansbaai tracks see a very low usage and its probably easier to pinpoint how and why damage occurred. 

By the way, an eBike rider was pushing his bike up a mildly technical section of trail on my last ride. Messed up a fun run for me. Not even trying to ride it up. Isn't it illegal to push an eBike with all that power on tap? 🙂 

[rorydewet]

I battle to understand how anyone can say that damage was e-bike that damage wasn't. Also not sure why people say e-bike will cause more damage than a normal bike.

To my mind riders mode of riding stuffs up trails, not what bike is ridden.

[Headshot]

30 minutes ago, rorydewet said:

I battle to understand how anyone can say that damage was e-bike that damage wasn't. Also not sure why people say e-bike will cause more damage than a normal bike.

To my mind riders mode of riding stuffs up trails, not what bike is ridden.

Last time I looked eBikes put out anything up to 80nm of torque. People like to ride up stuff on them they would not be able to ride on a  normal bike (just watch those twits on EMBN) - same as enduro moto people do. With torque and fat nobbly tyres comes trail damage I imagine. They are also quite heavy so I reckon if I was on a 25kg eBike vs my 16kg enduro bike, I'd do a little more damage on the way down too. So its not very hard to see  that's why people say and think this. The real question is whether its worth worrying about or not. I tend to think not. 

[rorydewet]

43 minutes ago, Headshot said:

Last time I looked eBikes put out anything up to 80nm of torque. People like to ride up stuff on them they would not be able to ride on a  normal bike (just watch those twits on EMBN) - same as enduro moto people do. With torque and fat nobbly tyres comes trail damage I imagine. They are also quite heavy so I reckon if I was on a 25kg eBike vs my 16kg enduro bike, I'd do a little more damage on the way down too. So its not very hard to see  that's why people say and think this. The real question is whether its worth worrying about or not. I tend to think not. 

okay lets break down your points one at a time

torque

since an e-bike just adds to the effort the legs put in how does the motor increase the torque torque is sum of legs and motor so regardless of torque source both e-bikes and non e-bikes need same power to go up a hill

fat knobby tires

most e-bikes don't have fat knobby tires they have normal bike tires, and non e-bikes can also have fat knobby tires

bike weight

the thing here is person weight not bike weight 9 kg difference in bike weights can be nullified by 15 kgs of extra body weight. so not an e-bike specific issue

 

still don't see any hard scientific facts that say e-bikes do more damage

[DuncanDoughnuts]

7 hours ago, aquaratza said:

I love the SL. It gives you the flexibility of having a battery (sun's going down, someone got hurt, etc.) but it's so light it feels like a Stumpy.

Only bad thing about the SL is that it's super noisy compared to the full Levo. I haven't tried yet but I suspect I'd struggle to keep up with a normal Levo on an SL.

You can also remove the internal battery from an SL and take the extender battery in hand luggage on an aircraft (what are those anyway). The SL will run off the extender battery solely so this makes it air transportable.

Seriously considering trading my Full fat in for a SL ...  

I struggle to do trials on the full fat ... gettiing up on the back wheel is easy enough, but then peddle kicking over stumps and rocks is where they weight really messes me up. I suspect a SL will be easier. 

 

[Tatt]

1 hour ago, Headshot said:

Last time I looked eBikes put out anything up to 80nm of torque. People like to ride up stuff on them they would not be able to ride on a  normal bike (just watch those twits on EMBN) - same as enduro moto people do. With torque and fat nobbly tyres comes trail damage I imagine. They are also quite heavy so I reckon if I was on a 25kg eBike vs my 16kg enduro bike, I'd do a little more damage on the way down too. So its not very hard to see  that's why people say and think this. The real question is whether its worth worrying about or not. I tend to think not. 

Howdy All

For me, the combined weight of myself and my ebike is less than my previous combined weight of me and my non-ebike (I realised I was a fat-****and decided that pies and chips shouldn't be my staple diet anymore). So in my previous buffalo weight category I guess I would have been damaging the trails more!!

The other interesting thing that I find is how I use the power on the ebike.. Sure you can turn it onto turbo mode, but on technical track, all this does is just get you to the accident you're going to have much quicker. So my approach is exactly the same as on my standard bike, which is slow and steady. Would like to hear other ebikers thoughts on this.

Tom

[Headshot]

39 minutes ago, rorydewet said:

okay lets break down your points one at a time

torque

since an e-bike just adds to the effort the legs put in how does the motor increase the torque torque is sum of legs and motor so regardless of torque source both e-bikes and non e-bikes need same power to go up a hill

fat knobby tires

most e-bikes don't have fat knobby tires they have normal bike tires, and non e-bikes can also have fat knobby tires

bike weight

the thing here is person weight not bike weight 9 kg difference in bike weights can be nullified by 15 kgs of extra body weight. so not an e-bike specific issue

 

still don't see any hard scientific facts that say e-bikes do more damage

I suspect you fo not debate honestly and raise straw man arguments as you've done in the past on this thread.

The torque  and power allows an ebike to ride up slopes a normal bike would not be able to and possible spin  the wheels damaging the trails. Next you'll be saying an mx bike pushed along the ground does the same damage as one ridden at full throttle.

[DuncanDoughnuts]

1 hour ago, Tatt said:

Howdy All

For me, the combined weight of myself and my ebike is less than my previous combined weight of me and my non-ebike (I realised I was a fat-****and decided that pies and chips shouldn't be my staple diet anymore). So in my previous buffalo weight category I guess I would have been damaging the trails more!!

The other interesting thing that I find is how I use the power on the ebike.. Sure you can turn it onto turbo mode, but on technical track, all this does is just get you to the accident you're going to have much quicker. So my approach is exactly the same as on my standard bike, which is slow and steady. Would like to hear other ebikers thoughts on this.

Tom

Yea, when I first started out I wanted to power up everything, only to realize that coming hot into switchbacks is a sure way to end up on the side of the trail ...  takes a few rides and once the novelty wears off its back to riding normal speed up and down ... only difference I can now do it multiple times. 

[vanniri]

https://www.singletracks.com/mtb-trails/usfs-releases-new-emtb-ruling-requiring-reclassification-of-non-motorized-trails-to-motorized-for-access/

A USA perspective. The comments section is most interesting!

Since it is Friday, I might add I really, really dislike Dirt bikes on the trails (any trails) and motor bikes on the road (in particular the W/Cape passes).  

[Jewbacca]

On 3/3/2022 at 5:05 PM, Headshot said:

I suspect you fo not debate honestly and raise straw man arguments as you've done in the past on this thread.

The torque  and power allows an ebike to ride up slopes a normal bike would not be able to and possible spin  the wheels damaging the trails. Next you'll be saying an mx bike pushed along the ground does the same damage as one ridden at full throttle.

I'm not trying to get into an argument, but by this reasoning wouldn't single speeds be even more damaging as the torque through the rear wheel pushing a big gear is way higher than a normal bike?

Are e-bikes really doing burn outs? Or is there just better traction as its easier to turn the cranks over with assistance?

I'm firmly in the 'I don't care' category as I like riding my bikes and couldn't care a hoot who rides what where because I'm too busy living my life, but most of the weight/torque arguments seem to be hearsay.

 

[Mitch21]

Riders braking in corners is what wreaks total havoc on trails. Regardless of the weight of the bike or torque being applied to the rear wheel (which is irrelevant unless you're pedalling through a corner downhill).

Comparing the impact a bikes weight and rear wheel torque has on the condition of an incline/flat section of a trail is infinitesimal in comparison to the damage of braking in corners, or overusing the rear brake and not braking properly.

 

[Steady Spin]

2 hours ago, Mitch21 said:

Riders braking in corners is what wreaks total havoc on trails. Regardless of the weight of the bike or torque being applied to the rear wheel (which is irrelevant unless you're pedalling through a corner downhill).

Comparing the impact a bikes weight and rear wheel torque has on the condition of an incline/flat section of a trail is infinitesimal in comparison to the damage of braking in corners, or overusing the rear brake and not braking properly.

 

Roosting those berms and skidding the corners. 
Another thing is cutting corners and making your own line. Riding around puddles or plowing through muddy trails that shouldn't be ridden to begin with. 

eBikes don't damage trails, inconsiderate riders do. 

[vanniri]

23 minutes ago, Steady Spin said:

Roosting those berms and skidding the corners. 
Another thing is cutting corners and making your own line. Riding around puddles or plowing through muddy trails that shouldn't be ridden to begin with. 

eBikes don't damage trails, inconsiderate riders do. 

I do all of the above. Mostly since I am clueless and brake when I shouldn't, don't break when I need to and end up making my own (unintended) line, getting stuck in puddles, etc.  

At least I don't plow through muddy trails since I dislike any mud on my bike, instead I push my bike and swear at the rain gods.  

[Mamil]

24 minutes ago, vanniri said:

I do all of the above. Mostly since I am clueless and brake when I shouldn't, don't break when I need to and end up making my own (unintended) line, getting stuck in puddles, etc.  

At least I don't plow through muddy trails since I dislike any mud on my bike, instead I push my bike and swear at the rain gods.  

Ha ha .... Me too. I'm told I ride like a dentist and I'd register except my bike isnt expensive enough.

[LazyTrailRider]

I've given in and got a Levo SL.

Man, it's such an awesome machine. The biggest thing for me when we spent a few days riding in Karkloof was how 4 riders of very varying fitness levels could do lap after lap of the most amazing tech trails without anyone having to wait for anyone else on the climbs. Just pure bliss with energy left to spare for every berm, lip, boostable roller and drop. I'm sold.

Also, I tried riding with power off for about 8km across a combination of tech, climbing and DH, and really couldn't feel a huge difference between the feel of it and the 2019 Stumpy I had.

I'm still going to primarily smash the pedals on my gravel bike for mileage and strength, but what remains to be seen is whether I'm going to ride this or my Stumpy EVO more. It's going to be interesting...