Do eBikes belong on the mountain?

[Steady Spin]

42 minutes ago, Goosebay said:

I would like to hear from trail builders.  Tokai and most of Stellenbosch's trails are blessed with clay.  We are not, and you can see an e-bike's damage even after one or two have passed through.  After December's holiday funriders on ebikes I would be happy not to ever see one again.  Alas there are now one or two resident here. 

Would it be an idea to charge e-bikers an additional levy if at all practical?

What would you say causes the damage? Weight, torque? 

If weight, then us fatties will need to be charged more than the racing snakes. 

Next you will want to ban aggressive tyre tread or riders that put down big numbers on climbs. 

eh eh you cant tax ebikes just like that  

 

Edited February 27, 2022 by Steady Spin

[ChrisF]

18 minutes ago, BaGearA said:

that ia very subjective 

 

with the ebikes i rode the package weighed about 110kg with fairly fast rolling small xcish tyres and i ride light ( as little as possible dragging , cut through every possible rock gap )  , I know guys that weigh more than 110kg that ride 160mm enduro bikes with DHF's and DHR's and drag their brakes through almost every berm , even on my Santa cruz my downhill speed were way faster and i slid the rear wheel more while also having chuncky tyres on 

 

The way you ride has much more of an influence than just weight 

 

Couple of high school kids on light bikes doing the roost thing causing lots of damage on our trails ..... very deliberatly so ...

[Steady Spin]

10 minutes ago, ChrisF said:

 

Couple of high school kids on light bikes doing the roost thing causing lots of damage on our trails ..... very deliberatly so ...

Little do they know that the latest Anthill Films edit they watched had the berm filled with loose dirt to get that roast just perfect for the camera. 

Eeeedjits

[Goosebay]

Difficult discussing on forums - but my comment is not subjective relating to our trails.  We have to repair and are trying to work out how why what as we are volunteers and can only build when time allows.

1 - Fair amount of damage on rain damage prevention sections on short steep up trails.  Heavier guys and unskilled riders tend to walk these.  The increased torque def is an issue, as well as riders getting to places they shouldn't be.  So wheel spin on these short steep sections are becoming an issue.

 2 - Trails are quite techy so most unfit and unskilled riders would not do them - if they did they would push a fair bit and go slow on the downs. 

3 - On the downs we expect damage - we have some roosters but that can be fixed - damage mostly to the corner entry.  Back wheel draggers are the biggest problem - and we have found more damage recently.  Tyres are wider and chunkier on e-bikes, and where most fairly skilled riders would have let go of brakes or not braked at all we find rocks being pulled out.

3 - I have also had fun on an e-bike - spez levo I think.  Top end suspension and 2.6 minions.  Low low centre of gravity - You can do things you would not normally be able to do - arrive at corners faster, brake harder, accelerate harder etc.  Sure it's fun, but not necessarily your skill or bravery.  Again on trails designed for ripping that's ok and those trails often have a maintenance team.  But not all facilities have that luxury and I sometimes wonder if some people can distinguish that.

Again would like to hear from guys who actually work on trails how they feel - if it is the way things will go then maybe we in difficult soil conditions need to design trails differently or close those that don't cope. 

So I raised a comment hoping for some helpful advice - but maybe wrong place.

Cheers

[herrowpreeze]

10 hours ago, Goosebay said:

Difficult discussing on forums - but my comment is not subjective relating to our trails.  We have to repair and are trying to work out how why what as we are volunteers and can only build when time allows.

1 - Fair amount of damage on rain damage prevention sections on short steep up trails.  Heavier guys and unskilled riders tend to walk these.  The increased torque def is an issue, as well as riders getting to places they shouldn't be.  So wheel spin on these short steep sections are becoming an issue.

 2 - Trails are quite techy so most unfit and unskilled riders would not do them - if they did they would push a fair bit and go slow on the downs. 

3 - On the downs we expect damage - we have some roosters but that can be fixed - damage mostly to the corner entry.  Back wheel draggers are the biggest problem - and we have found more damage recently.  Tyres are wider and chunkier on e-bikes, and where most fairly skilled riders would have let go of brakes or not braked at all we find rocks being pulled out.

3 - I have also had fun on an e-bike - spez levo I think.  Top end suspension and 2.6 minions.  Low low centre of gravity - You can do things you would not normally be able to do - arrive at corners faster, brake harder, accelerate harder etc.  Sure it's fun, but not necessarily your skill or bravery.  Again on trails designed for ripping that's ok and those trails often have a maintenance team.  But not all facilities have that luxury and I sometimes wonder if some people can distinguish that.

Again would like to hear from guys who actually work on trails how they feel - if it is the way things will go then maybe we in difficult soil conditions need to design trails differently or close those that don't cope. 

So I raised a comment hoping for some helpful advice - but maybe wrong place.

Cheers

Well our main trail builder (Patric) at TMC rides an ebike and always has, so i think that answers your question.

 

[Hairy]

7 hours ago, herrowpreeze said:

Well our main trail builder (Patric) at TMC rides an ebike and always has, so i think that answers your question.

 

Nope, he was on a normally aspirated bike before. The e-bike is an invaluable tool for him to efficiently do his job.

[herrowpreeze]

14 hours ago, Hairy said:

Nope, he was on a normally aspirated bike before. The e-bike is an invaluable tool for him to efficiently do his job.

everyone road a normal bike before ebikes. and he doesnt use his bike to build trails, he has a bakkie...

 

so false, ive ridden in the group rides for 5+ years now and never seen him ride anything else

 

so no, just no

Edited March 1, 2022 by herrowpreeze

[Hairy]

7 hours ago, herrowpreeze said:

everyone road a normal bike before ebikes. and he doesnt use his bike to build trails, he has a bakkie...

 

so false, ive ridden in the group rides for 5+ years now and never seen him ride anything else

 

so no, just no

I recall a Tygerberg email when he received his first e-bike, and the talk about how this will help him survey the trails and inspect them due to the network being so extensive.

I can refer back to when he was still riding his black YT.

[Hairy]

7 hours ago, herrowpreeze said:

everyone road a normal bike before ebikes. and he doesnt use his bike to build trails, he has a bakkie...

 

so false, ive ridden in the group rides for 5+ years now and never seen him ride anything else

 

so no, just no

No no no, just wait a moment.

 

 

 

[ChrisF]

7 minutes ago, Hairy said:

I recall a Tygerberg email when he received his first e-bike, and the talk about how this will help him survey the trails and inspect them due to the network being so extensive.

I can refer back to when he was still riding his black YT.

 

He most certainly DOES use the e-bike on the trails.

 

Weekdays he is typically with his bakkie, running around getting materials for his teams.  But you often see the bike on the back of the bakkie, probably to try out a newly fixed section of the trails.

 

 

I have seen, and chatted to him, on the ebike during weekend rides.

 

 

 

(NOT aimed at Hairy)

Did Patrick "always" have an ebike ... duh ....

 

Does he "always" use the ebike ... double duh ....

 

Does he use it - HECK YES !

magtag maar die mense kan pedantic raak ....

Edited March 1, 2022 by ChrisF

[PhilipV]

On 2/28/2022 at 8:12 AM, herrowpreeze said:

Well our main trail builder (Patric) at TMC rides an ebike and always has, so i think that answers your question.

 

No it doesn't answer his question at all. 

Tygerberg and the Gansbaai trails are worlds apart ito soil. The Gansbaai trails are very sandy. It's not called the Sandveld for nothing. And Patrick is also a better bike handler than the guy with limited skills who is riding an ebike. His example isn't applicable to Goosebay's question. 

 

But I don't see an easy answer for the Gansbaai trails. Ebikes aren't going away, so trail construction methods  might need to adapt to help trails stay lekker for longer. 

[OVERDRIVE]

I wonder how I can delete e-bike threads from my threads. 

[marko35s]

On 2/27/2022 at 7:35 PM, Goosebay said:

I would like to hear from trail builders.  Tokai and most of Stellenbosch's trails are blessed with clay.  We are not, and you can see an e-bike's damage even after one or two have passed through.  After December's holiday funriders on ebikes I would be happy not to ever see one again.  Alas there are now one or two resident here. 

Would it be an idea to charge e-bikers an additional levy if at all practical?

Tokai isn't really blessed with clay, it's mostly sandy soil. There are one or two bands of clay and any that ends up as run off or clogging drainage on the jeep track gets gathered up and used to line the trails in high wear areas.

Areas of trail that take a lot of strain are mostly rock lined or a combination of rock and clay is used. 

I honestly can't say that e-bikes have added to the wear and tear in any significant way,

[Robbie Stewart]

23 hours ago, ChrisF said:

magtag maar die mense kan pedantic raak ....

... oor nonsins

[Hairy]

4 minutes ago, Robbie Stewart said:

... oor nonsins

No no no

[aquaratza]

I was on the mountain yesterday, it felt right 😂

I wouldn't have been able to do it without an ebike due to life.

(It was a low fat Levo SL)

Edited March 2, 2022 by aquaratza