Does doping exist in SA?

[ChrisF]

That's the weird thing about dopers... they all only started doing it just before they got caught!

Always just such a big co-incidence

 

Back in the 80's and 90's a friend was a good cyclist.  Came close to Springbok colours a few times.

 

Time pass .... younger riders get faster .... it was suspected that he started doping.  Co-incendentally back then dope-testing was only done at specific events ... none of which he rode in ....  DONT know for a fact if he actually did dope or not, but either way he still was not competative.

 

 

 

As Gen says, simply not enough testing.  As long as there is a chance you will get away with it ... 

 

 

Do at least ONE podium (prize level) level test per event, for males and females.  After the podium, draw straws to see who gets tested ....

 

If you cant win money without getting caught out the use of dope will marginally decrease ....

 

 

 

 

Once caught - BAN !!  The ban should be sufficient to be a real deterent. 

 

 

Once the ban is served ... even a murderer gets to carry on with life after serving their time (unfortunately) 

 

 

When I go to a "bike shop, painter, etc", I dont care if he won a single race, nor if he served out a ban .... can he do the job I am about to pay him for ?  YES, the impact of a doper on the lives of others IS very real, and potentially long lasting, but this comes back to the need for REGULAR testing.

 

 

 

Wait  a minute ..... I dont have a dog in this fight ..... where is my popcorn ?

[J Wakefield]

 

 

Now we start looking at the many many records that have been broken in the last few months and rethink our heroes...

 

 

Have you looked at it from the point that during lockdown and no racing for a very long period that athletes did just that: Trained and recovered which created a super adaptation to form. Instead of consistently being fatigued by training, race, train, race, race etc. 

 

What lockdown and no racing created is basically a perfect recipe for load and adaptation. 

[wattnow]

Have you looked at it from the point that during lockdown and no racing for a very long period that athletes did just that: Trained and recovered which created a super adaptation to form. Instead of consistently being fatigued by training, race, train, race, race etc. 

 

What lockdown and no racing created is basically a perfect recipe for load and adaptation. 

 

Load, adaptation, drugs, repeat = Perfect recipe.

 

No fear of being tested = even more perfect.

Edited April 14, 2021 by wattnow

[stringbean]

I can’t wait for the next person that gets caught to use the “I got it from the vaccine”excuse

[ChrisF]

Well, only some guys.

 

 

I personally don't want him to get off  that lightly....

 

Come on .... what did Lance do wrong ?

 

He passed the "tests of the time" ....

 

 

The scary part is that he (and his fellow dopers) may be a big part of why testing has evolved to test for "systemic doping" ..... 

 

 

 

(bad) jokes aside - at what point was the term "systemic doping" coined ?  Somehow I got the impression that rules were applied after the fact to punish him .... 

[TNT1]

Have you looked at it from the point that during lockdown and no racing for a very long period that athletes did just that: Trained and recovered which created a super adaptation to form. Instead of consistently being fatigued by training, race, train, race, race etc. 

 

What lockdown and no racing created is basically a perfect recipe for load and adaptation. 

Colonel, in your opinion, is it necessary for an Elite rider to dope to win in SA?

 

I'm not asking if you think (or know) they do just if you think one would need to.

[Andrew Steer]

If Lance was just another doper we might well all forgive him... 

But he also tried to, and was pretty successful in destroying quite a few peoples lives and careers. 
That in my books, kind of elevates him from your regular Doping Douche Bag, to Mega Doping Douche Bag with extras fries on the side. 

No doubt about it, he was a great bike rider, even if he didn't win much in the end, but as a decent human being, he's barely passing, even by ANC pass rates

[dave303e]

Have you looked at it from the point that during lockdown and no racing for a very long period that athletes did just that: Trained and recovered which created a super adaptation to form. Instead of consistently being fatigued by training, race, train, race, race etc. 

 

What lockdown and no racing created is basically a perfect recipe for load and adaptation. 

 

 

I have looked at it that way- I personally came out of hard lockdown stronger than going in. I think there are also a few who have gained a lot and some big losers.

Look at motocross/ enduro locally and abroad- a few riders caught in lock downs could do nothing but fitness training or riding their bikes in their back yards(Jarvis destroying his shed). Others made hay while the sun shone and got surgeries done and niggling injuries sorted when there was a gap in racing. The guys who have their own personal tracks spent weeks churning out motos and putting in perfect training plans to gain a massive advantage.

 

Same was seen in many sports, some lockdowns were tough, others didn't have them. Look at development runners locally- stuck in a small house/shack/commune locked down, no treadmills, no wahoo's etc. They lost out big time to the more wealthy athlete's who could train perfectly.

 

But I am almost certain that there were a few adding some extra sauce to the mix during lockdowns knowing they had a gap in testing and racing and knowing there was a gain to be made.

[DieselnDust]

My sympathy for her ends when she says she has a full time job and kids.

 

She willingly takes PEDS and competes while it isn't her livelihood. There was no need besides her own drive to get back to competition, so PEDS are on her.

 

Blaming depression and PTSD for cheating is just a sympathy throw of the dice. Neither will make you cheat. There is even an argument that both are probably made worse by the pressures of competition and getting race ready.

 

Her accident was horrendous and I'm sure she struggles daily, but taking PEDS willingly is cheating. She deserves her sanction.

 

 

I don't think anyone is feeling that the sanction is misguided. Its fully deserved. Its just a sad situation frought with some bad choices and hence a wasted talent. (#fullstop)

 

Doping is doping. Getting caught is even worse.

[TNT1]

If Lance was just another doper we might well all forgive him... 

 

But he also tried to, and was pretty successful in destroying quite a few peoples lives and careers. 

That in my books, kind of elevates him from your regular Doping Douche Bag, to Mega Doping Douche Bag with extras fries on the side. 

 

No doubt about it, he was a great bike rider, even if he didn't win much in the end, but as a decent human being, he's barely passing, even by ANC pass rates

Constantly vilifying someone for the choices they made decades ago completely discounts the fact that people grow and evolve and change.

 

It's ironic that people will say shame poor Lynette, made a dumb choice out of a set of shitty circumstances, punish her and lets all move on and wish her luck, but the same empathy is lacking elsewhere.

 

Imagine the dumbest thing you did, or the worst mistake you made 20 or thirty years ago being constantly held as the yardstick against which your every single current decision is measured?

Edited April 14, 2021 by TNT1

[Legs4HillsWhereItsFlat]

This site is cool - why is it not more out there though.
Why are convicted dopers allowed to serve their ban and return to racing at events like nothing ever happened?
Tyrone White is a perfect example - on the site says served a 18 month sanction for an adverse analytical finding of Dexamethasone. 
Yet the chap runs a cycling shop and coaches the youth of today

It's just scary.
 

Link to the document can be found in the article... I don't know how to share that here[emoji23]

It will also be on SAIDS website.


https://drugfreesport.org.za/cases/

Just click on the drop down on her case outcome and it will pop up for download

[Andrew Steer]

Constantly vilifying someone for the choices they made decades ago completely discounts the fact that people grow and evolve and change. Of course, but has Lance changed, has he apologized to Betsy, Greg and the rest he screwed over and made amends? I've only ever got the feeling he still sees himself as a victim. 

 

It's ironic that people will say shame poor Lynette, made a dumb choice out of a set of shitty circumstances, punish her and lets all move on and wish her luck, but the same empathy is lacking elsewhere. I'm sympathetic to Lynettes situation, but there is no excuse for what she did and she must take her ban.

 

Imagine the dumbest thing you did, or the worst mistake you made 20 or thirty years ago being constantly held as the yardstick against which your every single current decision is measured? We've all done seriously stupid things in our lives, nobody is pretending to be perfect, but I've never lied and cheated on this sort of level to destroy other peoples lives. It wasn't a quick once off, it was years of vindictive actions fueled by his win at all costs attitude. The doping is one thing, I can live with that happily, it was part and parcel of the sport back then, it was the other stuff he did that show's his true colours to me. 

I'm not sure we're quite on the same page here.. but answered best I could above 

[FootballingCyclist]

Yet the chap runs a cycling shop and coaches the youth of today 

It's just scary.

 

He isn't the only one!!

[TNT1]

I'm not sure we're quite on the same page here.. but answered best I could above 

In answer to your first point. Listen here:

https://open.spotify.com/episode/2uGE94NYug3uBsuyDVtyeu

 

That is as open and honest as I've ever heard Lance.

 

I listen to him a lot on The Forward podcast. He's definitely not the same guy and has certainly reached out to all those people you mention. 

 

As to your last point, I can only suggest you try and identify with aspects of someone else's story, rather than compare it to your own. It's not the level of evil you did, but did you learn something and grow out of it?

[Andrew Steer]

In answer to your first point. Listen here:

https://open.spotify.com/episode/2uGE94NYug3uBsuyDVtyeu

 

That is as open and honest as I've ever heard Lance.

 

I listen to him a lot on The Forward podcast. He's definitely not the same guy and has certainly reached out to all those people you mention. 

 

As to your last point, I can only suggest you try and identify with aspects of someone else's story, rather than compare it to your own. It's not the level of evil you did, but did you learn something and grow out of it?

I'll have a listen... have made a point not to support Lance's post riding career (he loses a lot of sleep about this apparently!!!) - so I avoid podcasts etc of his, but I'll give it a try.

 

100% agree we all live and learn, but I also know there are certain things about people that don't change, and outside of someone who knows Lance personally, we all only see what they want us to see and what is best for their careers...

 

I'll get back to you on this

[J Wakefield]

Colonel, in your opinion, is it necessary for an Elite rider to dope to win in SA?

 

I'm not asking if you think (or know) they do just if you think one would need to.

No