Held up at gunpoint on the Spruit this morning - 7/11/2019

[King_Crispy]

And do what?

I hate comments like these.

I'm one of the okes you have never met. You don't know me. You don't know what I'm prepared to do to keep what's mine.

I ride the spruit weekly. I'm NOT going to let that get taken away from me.

 

Watch the vrot spruit water flow down and dilute the wasted blood of the attackers.

What do you think I'm going to do?

Edited November 11, 2019 by King_Crispy

[King_Crispy]

This is a lovely notion, but you live in South Africa - life is cheap here, being a cowboy is not going to change that anytime soon... if you want to be a Cowboy, make sure you are a very good one and you know what you are doing.

 

I'll tell you a little story... last year I was in Cape Town for the Argus, on the Friday evening before, I went with a friend to Long Street for a few drinks for my birthday - it was a short walk from our spot in Sea Point, so we skipped catching an Uber in. As we got to the bottom of Long Street, three gents bumped into us, one ripping my Garmin Fenix off my arm. Two bolted, but I grabbed the third guy and refused to let him go until my watch was returned. It's a busy street and very soon we had bouncers and every Tom, Dick and Harry in a big scrum on the side of the road. I would not let this guy go, no matter how many times he told me he did not have my watch... (something he was shouting from the moment I grabbed him, and even before I had a chance to say what was missing)

 

After a couple minutes my watch made a miraculous return and everyone left 'happy'

 

Fast forward a year or so, and I caught a post on Facebook from a women who had lost her child... her son had tried to defend some girls from a mugger on Long Street and got stabbed for his efforts, and sadly died as a result.

 

That could so very easily have been me, a husband, a father of two beautiful girls... and for what? A watch I have insured?

 

I 'happily' handed my bike over to gun wielding bike-jackers a decade plus back...

I don't know what changed since - it was a moment of instinct I guess, but luckily it ended well

 

I won't make the same mistake again.

 

Either be a good Cowboy who can control a situation like this and come out on top 9 times out of 10, or be insured and remember that your possessions are replaceable - to your loved ones, you are not.

I had the same story.

One of the punks ran away with his own knife in his back.

I didn't get my wallet back though, his mate was too quick

[Skylark]

Both of those stories are horrific. That is vigilantism and lawlessness. Not something commendable.

Live by the sword die by the sword.

It's a process known as consequences.

[BigDL]

I hate comments like these.

I'm one of the okes you have never met. You don't know me. You don't know what I'm prepared to do to keep what's mine.

I ride the spruit weekly. I'm NOT going to let that get taken away from me.

 

Watch the vrot spruit water flow down and dilute the wasted blood of the attackers.

What do you think I'm going to do?

What, you’re going to walk around with your AR randomly shooting people or specific people? There’s a bit of a difference between self defence and going looking

[arabsandals]

If 5 guys attack you and your wife in your home, and you shoot two of them, how is that vigilantism and not self defense?

The cops' behaviour in both stories is very troubling

[Kranswurm]

I hate comments like these.

I'm one of the okes you have never met. You don't know me. You don't know what I'm prepared to do to keep what's mine.

I ride the spruit weekly. I'm NOT going to let that get taken away from me.

 

Watch the vrot spruit water flow down and dilute the wasted blood of the attackers.

What do you think I'm going to do?

Nothing..

[nathrix]

The cops' behaviour in both stories is very troubling

Criminal behavior in both stories much more troubling

[MudLark]

The cops' behaviour in both stories is very troubling

It's a function of "criminality overload". If you regularly have to deal with the robbed, raped and murdered, you eventually get to a point. Any human will. In the end policemen are also just people. Edited November 12, 2019 by MudLark

[Gen]

Actually, you can. The police are remarkably unsympathetic towards criminals who get injured in self defence. Two incidents involving close friends will illustrate the point, both events having occurred in Johannesburg:

 

Incident 1: A good friend of mine shoots and kills an armed would-be hijacker in his driveway. I arrive shortly after while the deceased is still lying there. The police arrive. The local station commander calls the cop on the scene and says to him "Please congratulate Mr [my friend's name] on a job well done". They take the deceased away. End of story.

 

Incident 2: Five guys try to jump a friend of mine and his wife in their home late on a weekend evening. He shoots three of them. Two are dead, one is bleeding out. The police arrive. The one cop walks over to the wounded criminal and gives him a hefty kick in the ribs. The paramedics arrive. The police tell them to leave the wounded guy alone. Everyone sits on the lounge furniture having coffee while they wait for number three to expire. They take the three deceased away. Again, end of story.

 

I can quote other incidents too. But the point is that the police are fed up as well and in a clear self defence event, the odds of you having a problem with the police or the prosecution is very slim indeed. Issues only tend to arise when there's something pretty fishy going on.

 

Self-defence is not for everyone and submission is also a valid survival strategy. But if you do decide to go the self-defence route, there's no reason to be unduly worried about the legal consequences if you act in genuine self-defence.

 

But I have one question for one of the posters above: where on yourself and how do you carry the Glock?

We have a friend who was in the SAP his advice to us was, if you ever find yourself in a situation where you have to defend yourself.. shoot to kill, if the criminal survives you end up in such a legal battle and end up facing ridiculous charges as the criminals turn the story around so much.

[MudLark]

We have a friend who was in the SAP his advice to us was, if you ever find yourself in a situation where you have to defend yourself.. shoot to kill, if the criminal survives you end up in such a legal battle and end up facing ridiculous charges as the criminals turn the story around so much.

Your intention/desire should never be to kill anyone. Only to protect your own life or the lives of others.

[Gen]

Your intention/desire should never be to kill anyone. Only to protect your own life or the lives of others.

Well of course.. unfortunately a lot of people have lost faith in the legal system.

[scubes]

That is such a dumb comment. And maybe outta touch too (your profile says U'r in N Ireland).

 

What, you’re going to walk around with your AR randomly shooting people or specific people? There’s a bit of a difference between self defence and going looking

[RobertWhitehead]

One always have two options when confronted by a would be attacker: 

 

• Fight
• Flight

Giving your stuff over to the robber may seem cowardly and sad as you now have to go through the mission of all the paperwork and blah blah blah but, if you decide to go with the first option (which is your right to do) then you need to be willing to only stop once the threat is no longer there. That robber got up that morning ready to die and if you're not on the same level then you'll come short.

 

Expecting someone else (police) to handle the situation you find yourself in at that point in time will not resolve anything, it's action "after the fact". Be proactive not reactive. 

 

Unfortunately we all want to be able to ride on our ace and feel safe but unfortunately that's not the reality here in SA. So equip yourself physically and mentally to resolve the situation when it does present itself.  

[BigDL]

That is such a dumb comment. And maybe outta touch too (your profile says U'r in N Ireland).

Read it in the context of his original post. After years and years in the firearms business in SA, I got so sick and tired of people making throwaway comments like that and further harming the reputation of legal gun owners. Implying that you are going to take a semi auto rifle down to the spruit and the river is going to flow red, or some such nonsense, does not exactly scream responsible firearm owner, regardless of whether he was serious or not. I remember when it became incredibly difficult to buy semi auto rifles in the late eighties, all because some ******** converted a semi auto to full auto and emptied a mag at a shooting range where a cabinet minister happened to be. One stupid act made it more difficult for thousands of us to enjoy our sport.

[Robbie Stewart]

My old man owns a farm. He got threatened by one of the farms-hands once. The bloke was planning on attacking my dad with a fence dropper post of all things. My dad managed to disarm the idiot and proceeded to break the spar over his body and head. It was a "green" spar, i.e. hard as nails. After the perpetrator was dissuaded from his activity due to being in severe anguish and unconscious, my dad phoned the cops. About  an hour or so later the van pulls up, and the officer advises my dad to always ensure he is the first one to lay a charge in cases like this, as if the would be attacker laid the first charge, that would mean jail time for whomever put him in this condition.

Basically, when you find yourself having to shoot / moer / defend, always make sure you make the first charge against the other person. The burden of legal defence now lies with them.

 

{Edit} As a reward for the farm-hand's actions, he got booked into Valkenberg Psychiatric Hospital due to being severely mentally affected after his tirade, and getting the last of his common sense permanently bliksemed out of him.

Edited November 12, 2019 by Robbie Stewart

[Pieter1]

My old man owns a farm. He got threatened by one of the farms-hands once. The bloke was planning on attacking my dad with a fence dropper post of all things. My dad managed to disarm the idiot and proceeded to break the spar over his body and head. It was a "green" spar, i.e. hard as nails. After the perpetrator was dissuaded from his activity due to being in severe anguish and unconscious, my dad phoned the cops. About an hour or so later the van pulls up, and the officer advises my dad to always ensure he is the first one to lay a charge in cases like this, as if the would be attacker laid the first charge, that would mean jail time for whomever put him in this condition.

 

Basically, when you find yourself having to shoot / moer / defend, always make sure you make the first charge against the other person. The burden of legal defence now lies with them.

Is not automatically the case if you phone the cops or must you race to the station?