Coronavirus lockdown and exercising outdoors

[mazambaan]

Eish, the pitchforks are being sharpened as "rules are rules and any fool can see". I have read of a few people being fined and detained on seemingly flimsy, maybe even spurious grounds. No one I know; yet.

 

So I have downloaded my essential services dompas just in case, mask is ready, more ordered from Anatomic. What else?

[Jbr]

yea unless they thought they meant this

:

sub councils.png

 

the ambiguity is just crazy though...

 

EDIT....but but i can exercise right out of my sub council/ward  during 6-9am

 

just dumb.

Yes that is stupid, especially if you live right in between two districts, the one shop in the next district could be closer to you than the one within your district.

 

Anyways, when my wife told me she wanted to drive all the way from table view to canal walk to buy some makeup from dischem when we have at least 2 clicks and 2 dischem I can think of next door (that apparently don't sell the one thing she wanted), I thought she was crazy. Maybe that woman had a valid reason to go all the way down to the V&A and maybe she was within her rights, then I'm an asshole. But I doubt it, because I'm an asshole regardless

 

The day CWC tells me my powermeter is available for collection I'll obviously go fetch it, and if I get fined R3000 on the way, you guys can tell me it's karma and I deserved it, you'll be absolutely right !

[Duane_Bosch]

seeing as you are so vocal about it. What have you done to change it?

 

I'm not spreading fake news. 

[SuperDS]

It is quite interesting to see how passionate people become over what they believe is the "right" thing to do with regards to all the regulations, whether well-intended or ill-planned.

 

Say now, for instance, in a hypothetical/fantasy turn of events the current government gives up and downs tools and repeal all the pandemic-related regulations all at once and we return to status quo, what would all the experts on the Hub propose as regulations to keep as many people as possible alive, healthy, employed or enabled to earn a liveable income and content?

 

I am not saying that the current ones are correct, sensible or even logical. I honestly would like to know what those against (or for) some of the regulations would propose as alternatives. I assume many peeps on here have by now finished reading the internet with all the time available during lockdown, so the suggestions should be based on fact and research.

 

Maybe we could forward the best proposals to the upper echelons of our leaders and try to give sight to some of those leading the rest of the blind...

[Jbr]

It is quite interesting to see how passionate people become over what they believe is the "right" thing to do with regards to all the regulations, whether well-intended or ill-planned.

 

Say now, for instance, in a hypothetical/fantasy turn of events the current government gives up and downs tools and repeal all the pandemic-related regulations all at once and we return to status quo, what would all the experts on the Hub propose as regulations to keep as many people as possible alive, healthy, employed or enabled to earn a liveable income and content?

 

I am not saying that the current ones are correct, sensible or even logical. I honestly would like to know what those against (or for) some of the regulations would propose as alternatives. I assume many peeps on here have by now finished reading the internet with all the time available during lockdown, so the suggestions should be based on fact and research.

 

Maybe we could forward the best proposals to the upper echelons of our leaders and try to give sight to some of those leading the rest of the blind...

I think whatever the rules, there will always be some cases where they appear completely stupid and impossible to enforce or irresponsible.

What we have at the moment is okay-ish at least for my personal case but I understand it can be dramatic for some other people, the small business owners that can't operate as well as the poorest who can't put food on the table because their job isn't labeled as "essential". Sounds like an impossible choice, they will eventually have to chose for us between choking or starving to death... not a good time to be a leader !

[Underachiever]

I agree completely with your points.

 

This one, however, how do you prove you are in the circle of death (even if you are) if you are stopped whilst out riding? There's no requirement (yet) to carry dompas style of proof of who and what you are is there?

I'm also on the East Rand

 

Would love to go as far as Baps or Kempton, but my fear to have an argument which a cop drunk on power and low on EQ/IQ is too high.  So I try to keep inside the circle of death, perhaps massaging it to about 6km, just to get a decent route.

 

Also their maffs aren't that great, so to argue 6km vs 5km is way easier than 25km vs 5km.

[ChrisF]

.....

 

Ride with a form of identification (Id card in my case) 

 

.....

 

OOOOPS !!!

 

 

I have been riding without my Tygerberg card, as the trails are closed ..... but ALL my details are on the back of it .... if something happens, there is NO other way to identify me, nor to contact the Boss ....

 

 

 

Thanks for the reminder.

[splat]

Okay, so COCT is a single District municipality, and the cop was acting outside of the guidelines. 

 

Cool. I was wrong. Amended my posts accordingly. She should be able to get it squashed.

 

I reckon that the courts are going to be very busy sorting out cases like this - those fines equate to criminal records.

Not to mention the wrongful arrests and police brutality cases.

[Duane_Bosch]

Okay, so COCT is a single District municipality, and the cop was acting outside of the guidelines. 

 

Cool. I was wrong. Amended my posts accordingly. She should be able to get it squashed.

Sorry for being so vociferous. Not aimed at you specifically. And I suppose we're all guilty of inadvertently accepting something that is not true to be the truth and going with that.

 

I predict that when this all ends there's going to be a blanket amnesty for these fines that the police hand out for rules that they seem to make up on the fly

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

Sorry for being so vociferous. Not aimed at you specifically. And I suppose we're all guilty of inadvertently accepting something that is not true to be the truth and going with that.

 

I predict that when this all ends there's going to be a blanket amnesty for these fines that the police hand out for rules that they seem to make up on the fly

It's all good, man. ???????????????? And likewise

 

Agreed on the last bit, too.

[Let's Ride]

Have a friend who was fined R5 000 as they were stopped by the police and they went to a PnP that wasn't the closest one to them. The officer actually google mapped it and all. Try pulling that trick on me.... 

 

[dave303e]

I reckon that the courts are going to be very busy sorting out cases like this - those fines equate to criminal records.

Not to mention the wrongful arrests and police brutality cases.

 

My real caution around this all is professional bodies and criminal records. A lot of professional bodies will take it seriously and revoke professional status/registration. In our house we are 2 professionals who could lose a fair amount so it is in our long term career interests to keep noses clean.

[ChrisF]

Have a friend who was fined R5 000 as they were stopped by the police and they went to a PnP that wasn't the closest one to them. The officer actually google mapped it and all. Try pulling that trick on me.... 

 

 

 

I will admit I also thought we were to use the shop closest to home ...

 

NOT sure if this part of the talks during the initial lock down.  May well be because of all the European rules\guidelines we were reading at the time .... 

 

But I DO recall the "concept" of shopping closest to home.  And it IS one of those concepts that do make sense.

 

Practically .... I go food shopping about every 10 days .... often I end up stopping at 3 or 4 stores, for no reason other than shops being out of stock of essential items.  Last week I stopped at 6 shops before getting any bread.  By that time I was at least two shops past my house ....

 

 

 

Arguing with a cop on a power trip ..... BAD IDEA !  I will show my receipts, point out I am driving further, and then sign whatever he wants - my dashcam IS recording it all, and it is safer to resolve later.

 

 

PS - NOT aimed at Let's Ride, as this reply is equally applicable to so many posts on the previous pages .....

[ChrisF]

Wearing of masks ....

 

To the best of my knowledge Gazette 43258 regarding Level 4 was the last published one regarding this.

 

The Police memorandum is an internal document only, and does NOT override the Gazette.

 

Three provinces have already published their fine structures for Covid related offences .... They have the OPTION to attach a fine to a transgression of the Gazetted items, or to make it a warning item only.

 

So what does the Gazette actually say about masks :

 

 

5(1) refers to a "public place" ..... NATIONAL BUILDING REGULATIONS AND BUILDING STANDARDS ACT NO. 103 OF 1977 refers to doors leading from buildings "to a street or public place..." It also provides this definition -

 

 

 

The Gazette caries on in 5(2) to speak of public transport and being inside a building place or premises .....

 

 

So basically this means you are in one of THREE "places" :

1) Public place ... wear a mask

2) Inside a building, place or premises .... wear a mask

3) in your own home or yard ... do as you please ....

 

 

The reality is, it is unenforcible law .... every second person will claim asthma or some lung condition that makes it impossible for them to wear the mask .... possibly why the police memo decided to not enforce it.

 

 

 

 

Let's for one moment forget the "letter of the law" .... is there truly anybody on the Hub as thick headed as Trump ? WHY would you want to not wear a mask ? Because it offers little to no protection to YOU ? PLEASE consider the fact that YOU wearing a mask offers protection to ME and the next person that would appreciate your consideration.

 

 

 

I sure as heck dont like the masks .... but out of respect for my fellow man and woman do wear a mask when walking out my front door. I dot need some arb laws guide me when it is this obvious how easy it is to protect others around me.

[tinmug]

Spot on Chris. 

[Pieter-za]

I reckon that the courts are going to be very busy sorting out cases like this - those fines equate to criminal records.

Not to mention the wrongful arrests and police brutality cases.

The recommendation is to NOT pay the fine but to get legal advice and to go to court, as correctly stated,paying might / will leave one with a criminal record.

 

Also see https://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/lockdown-fine-means-a-criminal-record-20200421

 

(My bold - that is apparently the principle of the matter which the court will have to decide on.)

 

 

Rogers advised that if one is issued with an admission of guilt fine, one should get legal advice before admitting to anything.

“I had a client who was stopped while going to the dentist. She told the officers where she was going and they confirmed her appointment. However, police said the dentist was not supposed to be open. My client was arrested”.

He added that some police officers seem to be misunderstanding their own regulations and the limits of their powers.

“The burden of proof in a criminal matter remains on the state, that is, the State must prove you breached the regulations without good cause or justification,” he said.