Motorists vs Cyclists.... again

[Vetplant]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GneRo08cADc

Advocating for Self-Driving cars might be the best way to make it safe for us all to ride our bikes to work. I for one never thought the tech could be beneficial to getting people on bicycles..

[Jewbacca]

1 hour ago, eala said:

This thread can just stop hear .This is the truth and will stay the truth until Government takes cyclists seriously and changes laws and applies them diligently and that will eventually change road use culture .You only need one idiot to kill you on the road 

The issue is that it works both ways.

Almost none of our bikes are lawfully compliant to be used on the road under current regulations. Instituting laws and policing them means that both motorists and cyclists will be complicit. At the moment, unfortunately, both parties DO behave like plonkers.

The biggest problem with 'road use culture' is people, their attitude and years and years of this now being ingrained in our culture. A breakdown in human contact, mistrust and victim feeling over the last 18 months has also definitely made things worse. 

When Fortuners and white bakkies are caught and fined for breaking any cycling related law, they will blame the cyclist, feign ignorance and shout at the cop because 'real criminals' are running around free and all they did was nudge a cyclist. 

Recreational cyclists will have exactly the same response.

This does not even include the massive amounts of commuters who have absolutely no formal education or instruction on road use and rely on instinct and trust to get to and from work. 

In SA our respect for life and respect for each other is non existent. Laws won't change that. In fact, I think it will sour the relationship and fuel the resentment even more.

Edited August 23, 2021 by Jewbacca

[jackievs]

21 hours ago, ChrisF said:

What a lovely morning to ride .... LOTS of cylists out riding.  With large sections of the Tygerberg trails even more MTB's on the road than normal.

 

One constant ... both roadies and MTB's riding equally bad on the roads ....

 

 

Two cyclists next to each other, just after a blind turn .... thank heavens the 18 wheeler didnt flatten them ....

 

 

LONE cyclist owning the lane in Durbanroad, entering Durbanville .... pulling away at the next robot he nearly side swipes an Eskom bakkie .... the bakkie was already next to him when he swerved to the right ....

 

 

Another couple of near incidents along Adderly ...

 

 

Nee wat, fiets ryers gooi naam weg .... 

I agree, not enough daylight to respond to the attitude of intolerance towards cyclists you displaying... why can't motorists not accept to share the road with cyclists? Especially on a weekend day.. why can't we as motorists not try and change our aggressive driving behaviour towards other users of the road..?  

My simple attitude when I drive and encounter cyclists riding abreast is to slow down and be careful, give them space... it doesn't cost me anything except for a few sounds or a minute a most... !

As far as I know not all motorists can be classified as a FAF! 

Go to Youtube and watch a channel called Cylingmikey ... aggressive behaviour to other users of the road is a major problem, world wide.. but on a micro scale we can try and contribute when we are drivers .. !

[eala]

39 minutes ago, Jewbacca said:

The issue is that it works both ways.

Almost none of our bikes are lawfully compliant to be used on the road under current regulations. Instituting laws and policing them means that both motorists and cyclists will be complicit. At the moment, unfortunately, both parties DO behave like plonkers.

The biggest problem with 'road use culture' is people, their attitude and years and years of this now being ingrained in our culture. A breakdown in human contact, mistrust and victim feeling over the last 18 months has also definitely made things worse. 

When Fortuners and white bakkies are caught and fined for breaking any cycling related law, they will blame the cyclist, feign ignorance and shout at the cop because 'real criminals' are running around free and all they did was nudge a cyclist. 

Recreational cyclists will have exactly the same response.

This does not even include the massive amounts of commuters who have absolutely no formal education or instruction on road use and rely on instinct and trust to get to and from work. 

In SA our respect for life and respect for each other is non existent. Laws won't change that. In fact, I think it will sour the relationship and fuel the resentment even more.

You are correct on all said .I am in the medical ,ophthalmological business. Driving licenses can be bought at the back of the license offices next to the dustbin for R200 cash .This i know for a fact ! I see people on a daily basis with a valid license that will not come close to getting one legally due to this fact .So you are sharing the road with drivers with no training ,license or ability in many cases .Then you add the bakkie brigade that think they own the road and was pissed off at the previous crossing by the taxi and now comes across you and your mates holding said driver up ,and takes it out on the least vulnerable .Us in this case .The problem is deep and complex and there is no solution imo .I am the master of my own safety and try and ride accordingly . I often see cyclists wearing black kit on dark bikes in winter .YOU ARE NOT VISIBLE MY FELLOW RIDER ! Start wearing the not so cool ugly multicolored laughable silly kit .At least you will be noticed    

[TNT1]

2 minutes ago, eala said:

. I often see cyclists wearing black kit on dark bikes in winter .YOU ARE NOT VISIBLE MY FELLOW RIDER ! Start wearing the not so cool ugly multicolored laughable silly kit .At least you will be noticed    

I often see black cyclists on black bikes riding to work. I doubt they are on this forum to catch your advice though.

[Duane_Bosch]

On Saturday I was the oke in the double cab kukking on a cyclist for jumping the lights at Llandudno. To be fair he was on a TT bike so he doesn't really count as a cyclist. Plus being on a TT bike means he has no friends to point out the error of his ways.

Edited August 23, 2021 by Duane_Bosch

[jackievs]

Just now, Duane_Bosch said:

On Saturday I was the oke in the double cab kukking on a cyclist for jumping the lights at Llandudno. To be fair he was on a TT bike so he doesn't really count as a cyclist.

Kudos to an Oke like you on behalf of the TT rider.. spread your attitude of tolerance to your mates!

[jackievs]

13 minutes ago, eala said:

You are correct on all said .I am in the medical ,ophthalmological business. Driving licenses can be bought at the back of the license offices next to the dustbin for R200 cash .This i know for a fact ! I see people on a daily basis with a valid license that will not come close to getting one legally due to this fact .So you are sharing the road with drivers with no training ,license or ability in many cases .Then you add the bakkie brigade that think they own the road and was pissed off at the previous crossing by the taxi and now comes across you and your mates holding said driver up ,and takes it out on the least vulnerable .Us in this case .The problem is deep and complex and there is no solution imo .I am the master of my own safety and try and ride accordingly . I often see cyclists wearing black kit on dark bikes in winter .YOU ARE NOT VISIBLE MY FELLOW RIDER ! Start wearing the not so cool ugly multicolored laughable silly kit .At least you will be noticed    

So sad but so true.. I have said this before, we are a strange nation and becoming stranger by the day....!

[DieselnDust]

14 minutes ago, TNT1 said:

I often see black cyclists on black bikes riding to work. I doubt they are on this forum to catch your advice though.

I recall a few years ago the PPA ran an awareness campaign where they handed out pamphlets explaining the 1m by-law and a set of lights that worked with AAA batteries. I see many bicycles with these lights but they no longer function most likely because the batteries are long dead...

I'm yet to witness an awareness campaign directly at the target market for the 1m by-law, namely motorists.....

[Duane_Bosch]

29 minutes ago, jackievs said:

Kudos to an Oke like you on behalf of the TT rider.. spread your attitude of tolerance to your mates!

I was being facetious. But since you opened the door.

 

• He rode though the red light.
• The lane coming out of Llandudno was green and the car coing out of the intersection had to jump on their brakes to not hit Mr Ironman
• When he got hooted at he did a little dismissive wave. I guess he was asking for "tolerance"
• Oh and his gabba rode around the back of the same car. Light still red for him and green for the car.

 

How should the motorists have been more tolerant in this particular interaction?

Edited August 23, 2021 by Duane_Bosch

[Jewbacca]

Just now, Duane_Bosch said:

I was being facetious. But since you opened the door.

 

• He rode though the red light.
• The lane coming out of Llandudno was green and the car coing out of the intersection had to jump on their brakes to not hit Mr Ironman
• When he got hooted at he did a little dismissive wave. I guess he was asking for "tolerance"

 

 

The other part is then when he gets hit the cyclists all bay for blood because someone needs to be accountable....

It's definitely both sides.

The problem for me is that the commuters are lumped in with us lycra clad idiots and get mowed down just trying to get to work because 'dumb cyclists' 

Imagine how awesome it would be if more people just put their hands up and said 'yoh, sorry guys and gals. You are 100% right. I was in the wrong and I really apologise' instead of getting uppity and rubbish?

People should try it. The IronMan should definitely try it.

[Duane_Bosch]

1 minute ago, Jewbacca said:

 

People should try it. The IronMan should definitely try it.

Okes like that make it very difficult to defend cyclists around the braai when I have my surfer mates around.

[DieselnDust]

10 minutes ago, Duane_Bosch said:

Okes like that make it very difficult to defend cyclists around the braai when I have my surfer mates around.

not really, especially when they start with "cyclists don't belong on the road..."

[Jewbacca]

11 minutes ago, Duane_Bosch said:

Okes like that make it very difficult to defend cyclists around the braai when I have my surfer mates around.

I don't even try. 

I came close to taking out a whole group of semi pro's the other day at the Muizenberg/Main road interchange. I often park outside the Synagogue up the hill and it was green for me, had been for a while as I was rolling down. I pulled half a meter into the intersection before hearing screaming and shouting as a bunch of idiots came screaming straight at me through a red light. 

Despite obviously blowing through a red they all threw their arms up like I should have anticipated them being morons.

4 minutes ago, DieselnDust said:

not really, especially when they start with "cyclists don't belong on the road..."

No.... Many of my non cycling friends fully acknowledge that BOTH cars and bikes are idiots and both spend their time on the road in utter disdain of the other. 

Many cyclists I know also start rants with 'most of the drivers shouldn't be on the roads!'

Cyclists are ridiculous. The outfit, the kit, the seriousness of it all.... Ridiculous. We are a bunch of absolute twats. So are a heap of motorists.

Let's not try to blame one more than the other. I LOVE riding my bike but fully acknowledge that we, as a group, are idiots. 

[jackievs]

30 minutes ago, Jewbacca said:

I don't even try. 

I came close to taking out a whole group of semi pro's the other day at the Muizenberg/Main road interchange. I often park outside the Synagogue up the hill and it was green for me, had been for a while as I was rolling down. I pulled half a meter into the intersection before hearing screaming and shouting as a bunch of idiots came screaming straight at me through a red light. 

Despite obviously blowing through a red they all threw their arms up like I should have anticipated them being morons.

No.... Many of my non cycling friends fully acknowledge that BOTH cars and bikes are idiots and both spend their time on the road in utter disdain of the other. 

Many cyclists I know also start rants with 'most of the drivers shouldn't be on the roads!'

Cyclists are ridiculous. The outfit, the kit, the seriousness of it all.... Ridiculous. We are a bunch of absolute twats. So are a heap of motorists.

Let's not try to blame one more than the other. I LOVE riding my bike but fully acknowledge that we, as a group, are idiots. 

Hmm... you don't have to be an idiot...

[DieselnDust]

34 minutes ago, Jewbacca said:

I don't even try. 

I came close to taking out a whole group of semi pro's the other day at the Muizenberg/Main road interchange. I often park outside the Synagogue up the hill and it was green for me, had been for a while as I was rolling down. I pulled half a meter into the intersection before hearing screaming and shouting as a bunch of idiots came screaming straight at me through a red light. 

Despite obviously blowing through a red they all threw their arms up like I should have anticipated them being morons.

No.... Many of my non cycling friends fully acknowledge that BOTH cars and bikes are idiots and both spend their time on the road in utter disdain of the other. 

Many cyclists I know also start rants with 'most of the drivers shouldn't be on the roads!'

Cyclists are ridiculous. The outfit, the kit, the seriousness of it all.... Ridiculous. We are a bunch of absolute twats. So are a heap of motorists.

Let's not try to blame one more than the other. I LOVE riding my bike but fully acknowledge that we, as a group, are idiots. 

These fools running the red ight, were they wearing Lifeschmyle kit??? Just this morning a few of them tested Darwin's theory at Uxbridge. I nearly took one out. It was green for me and I still checked for motorists running the red but the cyclist took me by surprise.

if as a cyclist, you run a red light you get no sympathy form me. You deserve the accident because you went looking for it. Had it been green for him and red for me then I would have been the twat.

But lets agree that the one with the missile of death does carry a greater responsibility to not be a twat. Twats will be, but greater the responsibility  is when twat behind a wheel we will be.

A cyclist being a twat hurts only himself, a motorist being a twat has the ability to hurt many many people. I've never sat in a lounge watching the telly and then have this moment of bliss interrupted by a cyclist crashing through the lounge wall because they were so drunk they missed the corner. 

We don't often see cyclists wrapping themselves around a pole, smashing traffic lights, etc.

Being a twat on a bicycle is high risk to self lifecycle.

Being a twat behind the wheel is a high risk to others. 

Being a cyclist means that the motoring behaviour change we want to see means that we lead by example and not being a bigger twat than the other motorists because we have a bicycle on the back. to me cycling courtesy starts behind the wheel of the wheel of the motor car. Darwin will sort out the rest.

Edited August 23, 2021 by DieselnDust