Tokyo Olympics 2020 - Cycling

[Jewbacca]

2 minutes ago, Mountain Bru said:

Is this referring to the "injury" Simone Biles had? 

Personal well being is crazy important. These gymnasts have dedicated everything since they could walk. Young young kids doing hours of intense training. Gymnasts and ballet specialists are crazy. The dedication is all consuming. 

For someone of her calibre to pull out o even contemplate such a thing is massive. Her whole childhood was probably spent not being a childhood.

I am gutted for her but super proud of her for choosing her future over the now. 

[Shell Belle]

1 hour ago, TheoG said:

If it is this, it was really innocent imho, "join a que to hug a pretty lady", really!  Unless there were posts after this that digressed into something unacceptable, I didn't see those, probably deleted before I could ....

There was nothing innocent about that comment, or the others that followed.  The extent to which the sexualisation of female athletes has become normalized is really quite astounding.  The mere fact that you think that you can “queue* to hug a pretty lady” and consider it an innocent comment shows just how normalized it has become. 
 

That whole “discussion” was off-base and deserved to be deleted. 

[Mountain Bru]

Just now, Jewbacca said:

Personal well being is crazy important. These gymnasts have dedicated everything since they could walk. Young young kids doing hours of intense training. Gymnasts and ballet specialists are crazy. The dedication is all consuming. 

For someone of her calibre to pull out o even contemplate such a thing is massive. Her whole childhood was probably spent not being a childhood.

I am gutted for her but super proud of her for choosing her future over the now. 

Sorry I didn't mean "injury" in a negative way or in a demeaning way. Just not quite sure what the correct term is for whatever issue she had.

[lechatnoir]

12 minutes ago, Jewbacca said:

Personal well being is crazy important. These gymnasts have dedicated everything since they could walk. Young young kids doing hours of intense training. Gymnasts and ballet specialists are crazy. The dedication is all consuming. 

For someone of her calibre to pull out o even contemplate such a thing is massive. Her whole childhood was probably spent not being a childhood.

I am gutted for her but super proud of her for choosing her future over the now. 

this topic has been in the main stream media for a while now (Dumoulin, Osaka etc). Mental health is just as important as physical health. yet how many times does a stigma arise when someone needs to see a psychologist or similar? if I cannot function, I cannot function, it doesn't matter if i have a boken leg or a broken mind (for want of a better analogy)

[Jewbacca]

10 minutes ago, Mountain Bru said:

Sorry I didn't mean "injury" in a negative way or in a demeaning way. Just not quite sure what the correct term is for whatever issue she had.

'Circumstances'?

It's similar to the 'Gee Atherton is an idiot' thread at it's core. In order for an athlete like Simone to stay 'the best' she has to keep pushing the boundaries of risk/reward and in her case, the pressures of having to risk life and limb to stay ahead of the competition caught up with her.

I think a whole extra year of anxiously waiting, practicing and subconscious pressure also didn't help

[DieselnDust]

8 minutes ago, Underachiever said:

Ah. I thought as much

So the quality and type of clothing, technical support, etc, etc, etc, should the be specified and costed by the Federation, and then funded by SACOC.

Should be pretty simple to ensure excellence across the board, but then.....

Correct but...

the athletes pay for the kit themselves. I believe Ashleigh had hers made by her regular supplier with the blessing of the Federation. i can't comment on everyone else as its BioRacer manufactured, MrPrice sponsored. How did the supply contract work? That i don't know. With most of these cyclign kit houses you give them a number of garments with sizes you want made. For speed suits and TT suits its usually a case of 5 measurements and they cut accordingly. Did Mr. Price handle the order or did CSA? Usually the sponsor handles the order using internal resources fo rthe design and rand placement exposure etc.

there's such a lot going to make all of this happen that its not a simple case of "the federation has failed".

What I'd like to see is more benefiting and promoting local suppliers. All this hooha about XX watts saved by a the cornucopial panel of the skin suit is just more golfers marketing. Simplify the supply chains.

We also don't know to what extent the deferment of the games to 2021 has had on contracts and activities. Then the personnel changes is another challenge

[TheoG]

53 minutes ago, Shell Belle said:

There was nothing innocent about that comment, or the others that followed.  The extent to which the sexualisation of female athletes has become normalized is really quite astounding.  The mere fact that you think that you can “queue* to hug a pretty lady” and consider it an innocent comment shows just how normalized it has become. 
 

That whole “discussion” was off-base and deserved to be deleted. 

Cant speak on behalf of the other guys who posted on this, but my post was definitely not meant to be sexist.  BTW, I didn't get any warning so .... ????

Edit:  "The mere fact that you think that you can “queue* to hug a pretty lady”, I definitely didn't "think I can", that would be delusional, last time I checked, that was not the case. 

Edited July 29, 2021 by TheoG

[FootballingCyclist]

1 hour ago, TheoG said:

Cant speak on behalf of the other guys who posted on this, but my post was definitely not meant to be sexist.  BTW, I didn't get any warning so .... ????

I think in todays day and age with the way society is, You may have said something in which you genuinely meant no sexism/harm/derogatory way but from the other side of the fence it can be construed as such, Similar to comments(i'm speaking in general) in which zero racism is meant but it can be construed as such and taken that way from a "victim" of genuine racism, another 1 which comes to mind is on another thread a gentleman asked if people who call Spez "Spez" could perhaps stop as it's derogatory and offensive to people with special needs as that's a "teasing word", It may be said with the utmost innocents with no malice intended as that's what many have called the brand for years and years, But those who perhaps suffer from some form of special need will take offence to it. 

Again, This comment is not aimed at you, just merely replying to the last comment on the thread and using your post as an example. in todays society many can walk around and be defnsive and say "ah there's too many snowflakes around" etc etc but that doesn't change the fact that more and more people are suffering because of the pressures they're put under.

Edited July 29, 2021 by FootballingCyclist

[TheoG]

3 minutes ago, FootballingCyclist said:

I think in todays day and age with the way society is, You may have said something in which you genuinely meant no sexism/harm/derogatory way but from the other side of the fence it can be construed as such, Similar to comments(i'm speaking in general) in which zero racism is meant but it can be construed as such, another 1 which comes to mind is o another thread a gentleman asked if people who call Spez "Spez" could perhaps stop as it's derogatory and offensive to people with special needs as that's a "teasing word", It may be said with the utmost innocents with no malice intended, But those who perhaps suffer from some form of special need will take offence to it.

Again, This comment is not aimed at you, just merely replying to the last comment on the thread and using your post as an example. in todays society many can walk around and be defnsive and say "ah there's too many snowflakes around" etc etc but that doesn't change the fact that more and more people are suffering because of the pressures they're put under.

Absolutely true, but at what point are we getting too sensitive over the smallest of things, just asking, no need to answer.  That being said, however, to avoid provoking any enraged responses, in future I will refrain from saying a lady is pretty even though she might obviously be for the entire world to see.

[Shebeen]

45 minutes ago, FootballingCyclist said:

I think in todays day and age with the way society is, You may have said something in which you genuinely meant no sexism/harm/derogatory way but from the other side of the fence it can be construed as such, Similar to comments(i'm speaking in general) in which zero racism is meant but it can be construed as such and taken that way from a "victim" of genuine racism, another 1 which comes to mind is on another thread a gentleman asked if people who call Spez "Spez" could perhaps stop as it's derogatory and offensive to people with special needs as that's a "teasing word", It may be said with the utmost innocents with no malice intended as that's what many have called the brand for years and years, But those who perhaps suffer from some form of special need will take offence to it. 

Again, This comment is not aimed at you, just merely replying to the last comment on the thread and using your post as an example. in todays society many can walk around and be defnsive and say "ah there's too many snowflakes around" etc etc but that doesn't change the fact that more and more people are suffering because of the pressures they're put under.

you mean Spez?

edit: for the avoidance of doubt, i spelt it with an a, but it got autocorrected. I'm not sure how many others did too, so I'm actually unsure if the four letter version of s.p.e.z with an e is ok.

I understand it has connotations, more likely to be an issue when we're discussing the next 2 week event in tokyo

https://www.cyberdefinitions.com/definitions/Spez.html

Edited July 29, 2021 by Shebeen
the A was an E, or the otherway round

[lechatnoir]

25 minutes ago, FootballingCyclist said:

I think in todays day and age with the way society is, You may have said something in which you genuinely meant no sexism/harm/derogatory way but from the other side of the fence it can be construed as such, Similar to comments(i'm speaking in general) in which zero racism is meant but it can be construed as such and taken that way from a "victim" of genuine racism, another 1 which comes to mind is on another thread a gentleman asked if people who call Spez "Spez" could perhaps stop as it's derogatory and offensive to people with special needs as that's a "teasing word", It may be said with the utmost innocents with no malice intended as that's what many have called the brand for years and years, But those who perhaps suffer from some form of special need will take offence to it. 

Again, This comment is not aimed at you, just merely replying to the last comment on the thread and using your post as an example. in todays society many can walk around and be defnsive and say "ah there's too many snowflakes around" etc etc but that doesn't change the fact that more and more people are suffering because of the pressures they're put under.

but If i say something that I deem to be innocent, yet I cause harm, I am still responsible for saying it and any outcomes that may arise. If I give you a push out of sheer fun, yet you somehow fall down the stairs, I am responsible and need to face the consequences. I can't just say 'don't be so sensitive' when you're injured.

stick and stones may break your bones, but my words can't harm you... until my words make you pick up sticks and stones.

eeeeennyway, that's a different of looking at it. YMMV

[Shebeen]

1 hour ago, DieselnDust said:

Correct but...

the athletes pay for the kit themselves. I believe Ashleigh had hers made by her regular supplier with the blessing of the Federation. i can't comment on everyone else as its BioRacer manufactured, MrPrice sponsored. How did the supply contract work? That i don't know. With most of these cyclign kit houses you give them a number of garments with sizes you want made. For speed suits and TT suits its usually a case of 5 measurements and they cut accordingly. Did Mr. Price handle the order or did CSA? Usually the sponsor handles the order using internal resources fo rthe design and rand placement exposure etc.

there's such a lot going to make all of this happen that its not a simple case of "the federation has failed".

What I'd like to see is more benefiting and promoting local suppliers. All this hooha about XX watts saved by a the cornucopial panel of the skin suit is just more golfers marketing. Simplify the supply chains.

We also don't know to what extent the deferment of the games to 2021 has had on contracts and activities. Then the personnel changes is another challenge

I don't think the athletes actually need pay for the kit themselves. They get kit, but it doesn't fit or is late, or both. The reason why they pay for their own kit is because they go direct to the manufacturer and order what they know they need because from past history CSA will stuff it up. I could be totally wrong about this, but it's not rocket science. All these cyclists have done everything on their own, all CSA needs to do is support them and not hinder them once on the big stage.  

This is probably a topic for it's own thread. There is history behind this happening at ,mtb worlds they had to share kit between u23 and elites. stefan dB was able to tweet about it because it is not isolated.

[Mountain Bru]

19 minutes ago, Shebeen said:

you mean Spez?

 

@FootballingCyclist,
In think in that case, it was actually calling Spez "Spez". My understanding after that discussion was that Spez is fine, but Spez can be seen as being insensitive. Could be wrong though. 

Edited July 29, 2021 by Mountain Bru
My word, if your put an "a" in spez, it auto-changes to spez. I feel violated. Suddenly it makes a lot more sense why your post seemed to make no sense.

[TheoG]

3 minutes ago, Mountain Bru said:

@FootballingCyclist,
In think in that case, it was actually calling Spez "Spez". My understanding after that discussion was that Spez is fine, but Spez can be seen as being insensitive. Could be wrong though. 

I recall "Sp a z" being the issue, I might be wrong!

Edit:  "Sp a z" are being autocorrected to Spez consistently.

Edited July 29, 2021 by TheoG

[Shebeen]

2 hours ago, 'Dale said:

@Slowbee

Working in high-performance, there are a variety of reasons; here's a few (excluding the luxury prison living that comes with Covid19 biosecure ‘bubbles’):

- public scrutiny are at its highest point ever, especially through social media and its scathing commentary, trolling and toxicity

- depression and suicide rates for athletes were underreported; less so now

- the sports science, the margins between 1st and 2nd are as narrow as I've seen, therefore pressure to win and/or fear of failure is exorbitant. 

- high performers are mostly in their 20s and they have different levels of emotional maturation. Imagine being on the global platform at the age of 22.

 

I am very vocal about the olympics being way too elite. It has become a chequebook race, and 10%* of the people have got a chance of even coming home with a medal.

The gold, silver, bronze is an idea from a chainsmoking french aristocrat** in 1896 whose event was done with mostly amateurs, some even on holiday coincidentally in the area.. Coming 4th in the olympics is bloody amazing, making an olympic final is a mindblowing achievement, yet we still measure this circus using the 1896 method. Many people snigger at the 5 podium we see in mtb as the cadel exception, but it's already better.

I'd keep the gold, silver bronze but open up the table to actually acknowledge all up to 8th (or 10th).

I'd also reduce (as a stepping stone to throwing away) most of the silly sports. I'm talking to you shooting, archery, equestrian et al. Dropping a lot of weightlifintg for Paris24 was a good move.

 

*made up stat

**made up too

[Mountain Bru]

1 minute ago, TheoG said:

I recall "Spez" being the issue, I might be wrong!

Did you try say Spez or spez?