Tokyo Olympics 2020 - Cycling

[Jewbacca]

I think that sexism has been so ingrained in society that people 'don't mean' to be sexist but are then sexist. 

Because they 'don't realise' they then think it's other people who need to change or are at fault, not them.

Like the German coach being openly racist in the ITT, whatever the reason, it's not acceptable. It may have been funny or acceptable in the past, but now it isn't. I can understand that things can be misconstrued, but to be fair, most of the time it IS us and our perceptions that need to change.

HTFU is NOT the same as people taking responsibility for how they think and what they perceive as being acceptable. 

Sexism is so ingrained in our culture that slang and colloquialisms used every day and were deemed 'acceptable' 10 years ago by a man run, man driven culture are no longer ok. It's not a question of women being soft, it's a case of men having to understand that they need to change the way they think and act.

It's deeeeep in our culture. 

Edited July 30, 2021 by Jewbacca

[DieselnDust]

18 minutes ago, J Wakefield said:

Comments from management being that they not there to babysit. That environment and of athlete is exactly what you doing in order to make sure they perform optimally.

When this is managements view you know that they are totally incapable of the job expected to be done and should never be there in that environment. 
 

as said in a previous post - same old same old every year and until athletes band together and take a stance and make sure people are held accountable, can’t see anything change going forward.
 

 

so herein lies opportunity John.

The chicken or egg scenario. Something has to break the duck. I see this style of management everywhere in SA, the do as I say crowd. We need to shift to a Do as I do style. But also the level of competency in terms of the athlete psychology also needs to be addressed. Is anyone out there offering these services to CSA?

I see the athletes have quite a few people attending to them so I'd also like to understand in what areas does the environment need improvement and how does CSA facilitate these changes?

[Eugene Oppelt]

If you haven’t been in the arena in any way or form, it’s hard to understand what it takes to be the man or woman in the arena. 
Management and team support must be far from being a distraction. Management and team support must be so efficient that they become ‘invisible’ to the athlete’s journey. 
 

Respect to the men and women in the arena. 

[J Wakefield]

13 minutes ago, 'Dale said:

If you haven’t been in the arena in any way or form, it’s hard to understand what it takes to be the man or woman in the arena. 
Management and team support must be far from being a distraction. Management and team support must be so efficient that they become ‘invisible’ to the athlete’s journey. 
 

Respect to the men and women in the arena. 

This.

[J Wakefield]

43 minutes ago, DieselnDust said:

so herein lies opportunity John.

The chicken or egg scenario. Something has to break the duck. I see this style of management everywhere in SA, the do as I say crowd. We need to shift to a Do as I do style. But also the level of competency in terms of the athlete psychology also needs to be addressed. Is anyone out there offering these services to CSA?

I see the athletes have quite a few people attending to them so I'd also like to understand in what areas does the environment need improvement and how does CSA facilitate these changes?

Send people who know what they doing in that level of environment and have a proven track record with the required qualifications for it. 

[The Ouzo]

1 minute ago, J Wakefield said:

Send people who know what they doing in that level of environment and have a proven track record with the required qualifications for it. 

and that is the problem, in sport and in business. The people getting sent are not the ones that should be there, but they are sent as the guys that should be there are lower down the food chain and are not deemed worthy of being sent on the trip.

[DieselnDust]

8 minutes ago, J Wakefield said:

Send people who know what they doing in that level of environment and have a proven track record with the required qualifications for it. 

Ok but this then applies to both the Athlete and Supporting staff.

Who are the people that are light on experience and qualifications and what positions do they hold?

What are the key positions that need to be filled by these people?

And then how does CSA grow the capability within the organisation if at some point inexperience isn't given the opportunity to fail?

 

Sorry to be probing into this so deeply but I'm genuinely interested. There are people in SA with experience but I don't see them offering to fill positions at CSA so detail around where these gaps are and how to fix them is important to having an educational discussion. I'm willing to learn as much as I can and asking questions everywhere.

PM me if thats more comfortable. My only interest in this topic is understanding the gaps

Edited July 30, 2021 by DieselnDust

[splat]

2 hours ago, justinafrika said:

It's not complicated, federation management and support staff should do EVERYTHING it takes to optimise performance. DO YOUR JOBS!  

I can't imagine allowing oversights (add tardiness) and incompetence and excuses in business endeavours, I'd have lost large numbers of clients.

 

2 hours ago, Duane_Bosch said:

You don't need to try very hard to see that our entire country is infected with a chronic case of don'tgiveaf%ckitis. It just  becomes much more apparent at an event like the Olympics where the parasites are in close proximity to the tiny handful of extremely talented and hard working individuals.

It comes down to accountability.
It's clear that there is none.
No fall-out or repercussions or consequences for not doing your job properly.
Being a fat cat and a leech seems to be applauded from within the club.
Anyone who says anything against it is vilified, so it takes a very brave person to stand up and try to make a difference.
They are out there, so lets support them where and how we can.

[lechatnoir]

1 hour ago, Jewbacca said:

I think that sexism has been so ingrained in society that people 'don't mean' to be sexist but are then sexist. 

Because they 'don't realise' they then think it's other people who need to change or are at fault, not them.

Like the German coach being openly racist in the ITT, whatever the reason, it's not acceptable. It may have been funny or acceptable in the past, but now it isn't. I can understand that things can be misconstrued, but to be fair, most of the time it IS us and our perceptions that need to change.

HTFU is NOT the same as people taking responsibility for how they think and what they perceive as being acceptable. 

Sexism is so ingrained in our culture that slang and colloquialisms used every day and were deemed 'acceptable' 10 years ago by a man run, man driven culture are no longer ok. It's not a question of women being soft, it's a case of men having to understand that they need to change the way they think and act.

It's deeeeep in our culture. 

there are several examples of little boys surrounded by bikini models in various poses/scenarios and everyone has a fat laugh and it flies around the web. Swap the boy for a girl and women for men and people get arrested. It's messed up, not being a snowflake

[Patchelicious]

2 hours ago, Shebeen said:

I missed the whole thing, but I think it's actually getting better.

Yes it is. The majority is becoming more inclusive and equal. This needs to be acknowledged. 

But there will always be hate on both sides at the fringes, some misogynists and racists masquerading as rationalists, and the retribution seeking woke leftists masquerading as progressives. 

[Shebeen]

2 hours ago, J Wakefield said:

Send people who know what they doing in that level of environment and have a proven track record with the required qualifications for it. 

I am separated far far away enough from this not to have any vested interests apart from seeing our athletes achieve their best.

so who is the support staff actually? With a quick google i found this, totally understand that there could be a lot more behind these people and this is hardly exhaustive. 

Elton Davids - SG of cycling sa (i guess he had a big hand in selecting the support staff, including himself) I guess CSA salaried

Carl Pasio - Ash's husband, former pro cyclist and the support behind everything she does to be easily the best female cyclist we've ever had.

Ian Goetham - various CSA committees, probably volunteer

Gary Blem - one of the best world tour mechanics on the planet - he does/did Froome's bike

Brigitte Mileson - dunno uk based physio 

JP Jacobs - mechanic for spez, cannondale etc pro mtb teams

Tyrone Johns - kzn based bmx rider and coach, probably volunteer

Moosa claasen - apart from the team announcements, can only find this on him covering saddles

 

 

[Pure Savage]

12 minutes ago, Shebeen said:

I am separated far far away enough from this not to have any vested interests apart from seeing our athletes achieve their best.

so who is the support staff actually? With a quick google i found this, totally understand that there could be a lot more behind these people and this is hardly exhaustive. 

Elton Davids - SG of cycling sa (i guess he had a big hand in selecting the support staff, including himself) I guess CSA salaried

Carl Pasio - Ash's husband, former pro cyclist and the support behind everything she does to be easily the best female cyclist we've ever had.

Ian Goetham - various CSA committees, probably volunteer

Gary Blem - one of the best world tour mechanics on the planet - he does/did Froome's bike

Brigitte Mileson - dunno uk based physio 

JP Jacobs - mechanic for spez, cannondale etc pro mtb teams

Tyrone Johns - kzn based bmx rider and coach, probably volunteer

Moosa claasen - apart from the team announcements, can only find this on him covering saddles

 

 

Well....

[DieselnDust]

50 minutes ago, Shebeen said:

I am separated far far away enough from this not to have any vested interests apart from seeing our athletes achieve their best.

so who is the support staff actually? With a quick google i found this, totally understand that there could be a lot more behind these people and this is hardly exhaustive. 

Elton Davids - SG of cycling sa (i guess he had a big hand in selecting the support staff, including himself) I guess CSA salaried

Carl Pasio - Ash's husband, former pro cyclist and the support behind everything she does to be easily the best female cyclist we've ever had.

Ian Goetham - various CSA committees, probably volunteer

Gary Blem - one of the best world tour mechanics on the planet - he does/did Froome's bike

Brigitte Mileson - dunno uk based physio 

JP Jacobs - mechanic for spez, cannondale etc pro mtb teams

Tyrone Johns - kzn based bmx rider and coach, probably volunteer

Moosa claasen - apart from the team announcements, can only find this on him covering saddles

 

 

Moosa (Mellie) is known to me. He's the head wrench at Bridge Cycles. He's been on various SA Cycling teams as mechanic at the request of athletes I'm told by people other than the man himself. Has built wheels foe me in the past and they haven't fallen apart. IME a very good mechanic.

Elton has been around a long time, from Secretary at Elfin Cycling Club, ACSIS Cycling (From which Velokhaya sprang IIRC. also the formative years of what is now BikeHub(Matt can correct me)) past PPA Exco vicechair, Cycletour trust board member,  Holds a qualification in Sports  Admin from UWC IIRC, super passionate bloke and landed current role at CSA a few months back. Probably the newest onto the scene here.

JP, Head wrench at CFR, Lefty Wizzard

Gary is known as Pro tour wrench.

So with the innuendo being thrown around I'm struggling to see where the lack of competency lies or what the expectation of competency is. 

Without specifics these are just revolving conversations. The people appear to be plug and play. Whoever gets the job also carries the labels of the people they replace.

So where specifically are the issues?

Edited July 30, 2021 by DieselnDust

[Sharkie 2]

36 minutes ago, DieselnDust said:

Moosa (Mellie) is known to me. He's the head wrench at Bridge Cycles. He's been on various SA Cycling teams as mechanic at the request of athletes I'm told by people other than the man himself. Has built wheels foe me in the past and they haven't fallen apart. IME a very good mechanic.

Elton has been around a long time, from Secretary at Elfin Cycling Club, ACSIS Cycling (From which Velokhaya sprang IIRC. also the formative years of what is now BikeHub(Matt can correct me)) past PPA Exco vicechair, Cycletour trust board member,  Holds a qualification in Sports  Admin from UWC IIRC, super passionate bloke and landed current role at CSA a few months back. Probably the newest onto the scene here.

JP, Head wrench at CFR, Lefty Wizzard

Gary is known as Pro tour wrench.

So with the innuendo being thrown around I'm struggling to see where the lack of competency lies or what the expectation of competency is. 

Without specifics these are just revolving conversations. The people appear to be plug and play. Whoever gets the job also carries the labels of the people they replace.

So where specifically are the issues?

Brigitte has helped and managed Jean since he started his journey for Olympic qualification nearly 5 years ago. She is well qualified and deserved to be selected and has the experience to manage the team.

 

[dsw]

 

If I must rate the performances (out of 10) of the SA cyclists so far at the games my not very refined ratings would be as follows:

Ashleigh- 7,5

Alan- 6

Stefan-6

Candice- 5

Nic- 3

Carla- 2

Ryan-  1

Alex- 1

 

For reference , I would give Tatjana a 10+ and Bianca a 9. 

 

Whether better support staff/clothing/requipment would have made a difference to the performances is unknown but I doubt very much .  

 

[JA-Q001]

TBH, Alan deserves a 7,5 at least too, if not an 8.

Bigger competition that AMP and if it wasn't for a poor start, he could have been very close to that podium.