Tokyo Olympics 2020 - Cycling

[Shebeen]

45 minutes ago, FootballingCyclist said:

I think in todays day and age with the way society is, You may have said something in which you genuinely meant no sexism/harm/derogatory way but from the other side of the fence it can be construed as such, Similar to comments(i'm speaking in general) in which zero racism is meant but it can be construed as such and taken that way from a "victim" of genuine racism, another 1 which comes to mind is on another thread a gentleman asked if people who call Spez "Spez" could perhaps stop as it's derogatory and offensive to people with special needs as that's a "teasing word", It may be said with the utmost innocents with no malice intended as that's what many have called the brand for years and years, But those who perhaps suffer from some form of special need will take offence to it. 

Again, This comment is not aimed at you, just merely replying to the last comment on the thread and using your post as an example. in todays society many can walk around and be defnsive and say "ah there's too many snowflakes around" etc etc but that doesn't change the fact that more and more people are suffering because of the pressures they're put under.

you mean Spez?

edit: for the avoidance of doubt, i spelt it with an a, but it got autocorrected. I'm not sure how many others did too, so I'm actually unsure if the four letter version of s.p.e.z with an e is ok.

I understand it has connotations, more likely to be an issue when we're discussing the next 2 week event in tokyo

https://www.cyberdefinitions.com/definitions/Spez.html

Edited July 29, 2021 by Shebeen
the A was an E, or the otherway round

[lechatnoir]

25 minutes ago, FootballingCyclist said:

I think in todays day and age with the way society is, You may have said something in which you genuinely meant no sexism/harm/derogatory way but from the other side of the fence it can be construed as such, Similar to comments(i'm speaking in general) in which zero racism is meant but it can be construed as such and taken that way from a "victim" of genuine racism, another 1 which comes to mind is on another thread a gentleman asked if people who call Spez "Spez" could perhaps stop as it's derogatory and offensive to people with special needs as that's a "teasing word", It may be said with the utmost innocents with no malice intended as that's what many have called the brand for years and years, But those who perhaps suffer from some form of special need will take offence to it. 

Again, This comment is not aimed at you, just merely replying to the last comment on the thread and using your post as an example. in todays society many can walk around and be defnsive and say "ah there's too many snowflakes around" etc etc but that doesn't change the fact that more and more people are suffering because of the pressures they're put under.

but If i say something that I deem to be innocent, yet I cause harm, I am still responsible for saying it and any outcomes that may arise. If I give you a push out of sheer fun, yet you somehow fall down the stairs, I am responsible and need to face the consequences. I can't just say 'don't be so sensitive' when you're injured.

stick and stones may break your bones, but my words can't harm you... until my words make you pick up sticks and stones.

eeeeennyway, that's a different of looking at it. YMMV

[Shebeen]

1 hour ago, DieselnDust said:

Correct but...

the athletes pay for the kit themselves. I believe Ashleigh had hers made by her regular supplier with the blessing of the Federation. i can't comment on everyone else as its BioRacer manufactured, MrPrice sponsored. How did the supply contract work? That i don't know. With most of these cyclign kit houses you give them a number of garments with sizes you want made. For speed suits and TT suits its usually a case of 5 measurements and they cut accordingly. Did Mr. Price handle the order or did CSA? Usually the sponsor handles the order using internal resources fo rthe design and rand placement exposure etc.

there's such a lot going to make all of this happen that its not a simple case of "the federation has failed".

What I'd like to see is more benefiting and promoting local suppliers. All this hooha about XX watts saved by a the cornucopial panel of the skin suit is just more golfers marketing. Simplify the supply chains.

We also don't know to what extent the deferment of the games to 2021 has had on contracts and activities. Then the personnel changes is another challenge

I don't think the athletes actually need pay for the kit themselves. They get kit, but it doesn't fit or is late, or both. The reason why they pay for their own kit is because they go direct to the manufacturer and order what they know they need because from past history CSA will stuff it up. I could be totally wrong about this, but it's not rocket science. All these cyclists have done everything on their own, all CSA needs to do is support them and not hinder them once on the big stage.  

This is probably a topic for it's own thread. There is history behind this happening at ,mtb worlds they had to share kit between u23 and elites. stefan dB was able to tweet about it because it is not isolated.

[Mountain Bru]

19 minutes ago, Shebeen said:

you mean Spez?

 

@FootballingCyclist,
In think in that case, it was actually calling Spez "Spez". My understanding after that discussion was that Spez is fine, but Spez can be seen as being insensitive. Could be wrong though. 

Edited July 29, 2021 by Mountain Bru
My word, if your put an "a" in spez, it auto-changes to spez. I feel violated. Suddenly it makes a lot more sense why your post seemed to make no sense.

[TheoG]

3 minutes ago, Mountain Bru said:

@FootballingCyclist,
In think in that case, it was actually calling Spez "Spez". My understanding after that discussion was that Spez is fine, but Spez can be seen as being insensitive. Could be wrong though. 

I recall "Sp a z" being the issue, I might be wrong!

Edit:  "Sp a z" are being autocorrected to Spez consistently.

Edited July 29, 2021 by TheoG

[Shebeen]

2 hours ago, 'Dale said:

@Slowbee

Working in high-performance, there are a variety of reasons; here's a few (excluding the luxury prison living that comes with Covid19 biosecure ‘bubbles’):

- public scrutiny are at its highest point ever, especially through social media and its scathing commentary, trolling and toxicity

- depression and suicide rates for athletes were underreported; less so now

- the sports science, the margins between 1st and 2nd are as narrow as I've seen, therefore pressure to win and/or fear of failure is exorbitant. 

- high performers are mostly in their 20s and they have different levels of emotional maturation. Imagine being on the global platform at the age of 22.

 

I am very vocal about the olympics being way too elite. It has become a chequebook race, and 10%* of the people have got a chance of even coming home with a medal.

The gold, silver, bronze is an idea from a chainsmoking french aristocrat** in 1896 whose event was done with mostly amateurs, some even on holiday coincidentally in the area.. Coming 4th in the olympics is bloody amazing, making an olympic final is a mindblowing achievement, yet we still measure this circus using the 1896 method. Many people snigger at the 5 podium we see in mtb as the cadel exception, but it's already better.

I'd keep the gold, silver bronze but open up the table to actually acknowledge all up to 8th (or 10th).

I'd also reduce (as a stepping stone to throwing away) most of the silly sports. I'm talking to you shooting, archery, equestrian et al. Dropping a lot of weightlifintg for Paris24 was a good move.

 

*made up stat

**made up too

[Mountain Bru]

1 minute ago, TheoG said:

I recall "Spez" being the issue, I might be wrong!

Did you try say Spez or spez?

[Shebeen]

2 minutes ago, Mountain Bru said:

@FootballingCyclist,
In think in that case, it was actually calling Spez "Spez". My understanding after that discussion was that Spez is fine, but Spez can be seen as being insensitive. Could be wrong though. 

ok well that solves it, calling them with an A is very old, like helmut. Sp@z works?

ps. i currently have two Specialized bikes in my garage

[TheoG]

Just now, Mountain Bru said:

Did you try say Spez or spez?

"Sp a z" but it get auto changed to "Spez".

[FootballingCyclist]

23 minutes ago, lechatnoir said:

but If i say something that I deem to be innocent, yet I cause harm, I am still responsible for saying it and any outcomes that may arise. If I give you a push out of sheer fun, yet you somehow fall down the stairs, I am responsible and need to face the consequences. I can't just say 'don't be so sensitive' when you're injured.

stick and stones may break your bones, but my words can't harm you... until my words make you pick up sticks and stones.

eeeeennyway, that's a different of looking at it. YMMV

Agree 300%

[Mountain Bru]

Just now, TheoG said:

"Sp a z" but it get auto changed to "Spez".

Personally, I think auto changing messages is flippen ridiculous. My word ????‍♂️. 

It's not that I'm in favour of saying derogatory things. In fact, after reading that post about not saying Spez, I've intentionally only said spez. (yes that makes no sense. Thank the admins). What's next? It's bad enough that we, as a group of adults, are getting told what we're allowed to and not allowed to speak about, but now our words are even being changed by the overlords. 

To discord! 
 

[Sid the Sloth]

2 minutes ago, Mountain Bru said:

Personally, I think auto changing messages is flippen ridiculous. My word ????‍♂️. 

It's not that I'm in favour of saying derogatory things. In fact, after reading that post about not saying Spez, I've intentionally only said spez. (yes that makes no sense. Thank the admins). What's next? It's bad enough that we, as a group of adults, are getting told what we're allowed to and not allowed to speak about, but now our words are even being changed by the overlords. 

To discord! 
 

It takes so little effort to be nice instead of using words people don't like or find triggering. In fact admin even put in the effort to make sure you have to make zero effort. Thanks guys. Anyway, make sure you don't join the queue to give MVDP a hug as it is probably longer if all these comments have nothing to do with gender.

[Matt]

2 minutes ago, Mountain Bru said:

Personally, I think auto changing messages is flippen ridiculous. My word ????‍♂️. 

It's not that I'm in favour of saying derogatory things. In fact, after reading that post about not saying Spez, I've intentionally only said spez. (yes that makes no sense. Thank the admins). What's next? It's bad enough that we, as a group of adults, are getting told what we're allowed to and not allowed to speak about, but now our words are even being changed by the overlords. 

To discord! 
 

What seems ridiculous to you is also a very simple solution to something. It's unlikely that anyone meant offence with "s p a z", but it could be offensive to some. Bottom line, we knew it's a pretty ingrained habit so a simple auto-correct seems like a win-win.

On the issues that prompted this deviation from the topic after the Mod note: there was some conversation about queueing up to watch two female riders "kiss and make up". In other comments, the looks of female athletes were likened to other male athletes. 

All of these athletes are simply other humans, who also have access to the internet. We've seen before that what feels like a bit of "banter" on a forum can cause actual hurt to the target of the joke. It's just not necessary.

Let's get this back to Olympics discussion. Feel free to PM me or discuss in a separate thread.

[Mountain Bru]

6 minutes ago, Sid the Sloth said:

It takes so little effort to be nice instead of using words people don't like or find triggering. In fact admin even put in the effort to make sure you have to make zero effort. Thanks guys. Anyway, make sure you don't join the queue to give MVDP a hug as it is probably longer if all these comments have nothing to do with gender.

I suggested that people should hug MVDP first seen as his drama was first

Comment was deleted. ????‍♂️

[Shebeen]

6 minutes ago, Sid the Sloth said:

It takes so little effort to be nice instead of using words people don't like or find triggering. In fact admin even put in the effort to make sure you have to make zero effort. Thanks guys. Anyway, make sure you don't join the queue to give MVDP a hug as it is probably longer if all these comments have nothing to do with gender.

ok this SPEZ thing is a bit of a surprise to me. so i searched it

https://forum.bikehub.co.za/search/?q=Spez&quick=1

1703 mentions over 69 pages of results. it has been used EXTENSIVELY

including not that long ago, this topic

i guess it came from this. I understand, but it's not really the connotation at all.

but ja, seems the nickname for Richard works

 

 

[DieselnDust]

37 minutes ago, Shebeen said:

I don't think the athletes actually need pay for the kit themselves. They get kit, but it doesn't fit or is late, or both. The reason why they pay for their own kit is because they go direct to the manufacturer and order what they know they need because from past history CSA will stuff it up. I could be totally wrong about this, but it's not rocket science. All these cyclists have done everything on their own, all CSA needs to do is support them and not hinder them once on the big stage.  

This is probably a topic for it's own thread. There is history behind this happening at ,mtb worlds they had to share kit between u23 and elites. stefan dB was able to tweet about it because it is not isolated.

kit sizing is a real problem, especially when you get down to the level of the aero suits they're wearing for TT. Some of the suits are literally laser cut from a model of the athletes body. Super expensive and not your run of the mill speed suit off the shelf. I do my nut in with size curves. recently bought a new team replica kit. Size chart says S bib and S jersey should be the same as my Assos Small kit. Great order. arrival, fit WTF, bib is S and snug but not high pitched snug. It'll stretch. Top is longer than medium top from another brand and has the the volume of a large!!! ????

I'm all for the athletes being given a design template and go get the kit made by your regular vendor. But if the contracts state that the sponsor will provide then you're in a for a bit of a game of darts. Doesn't matter if CSA is involved. For Example, every year I  provide my kit size to my DC team and what I get either fits well or it doesn't, mostly not. The size chart doesn't change but the fit does. But hey... beggars can't be chosers (commonly used term and in no way infers that beggars should be viewed as not deserving of respect) so I wear it till it falls apart or donate after. Since it was paid for I wear it for a year then move it along.

Our federation does need to up its game but as I've said several times, there's a new captain and we have to give the person and the new admin team (note my no gender identification assumption) the opportunity to deliver. The timing under which they have taken up the task is not enviable so I'd rather slap em on the back,....oh wait sorry I cant do that as they may trip and fall and I'd be virtually responsible....applaud the work done thus far and look forward to the continued improvement that will be implemented to facilitate organisational performance goals

 

* Disclaimer: this post is my own view and does not reflect the views of the manufacturer of my laptop, my internet service provider, CoCT who so capitalistically provide the energy to power this post and is not intended to diminish the feelings of anyone who may disagree. No manufacturers were harmed in the compilation of this post. This post does reflect a willingness to give CSA a chance to turn the ship around and be respected representative body of cycling in SA.