Stages Power Meters lay off entire workforce

[ChrisF]

4 minutes ago, Shebeen said:

I can see the power meter market being incredibly cut-throat going forward.

The technology has matured, the market has stabilised and it's ripe for a price war.

Problem is that most people who need a pm have one already, and they paid a lot for their current unit. Trying to get them to upgrade or increase the market is only possible with pricing getting slashed. You saw a similar thing with HRM watches and GPS units, but the market could handle both budget options and higher priced premium products. Power meters can only add convenience and accuracy going forward, and that will plateau (if not already).

In 3 years I see half the players left, charging half the price.

 

(the tech is exploding in sailing, but the pricing is still bonkers.  https://theyachtrigger.com/cyclops-smart-link/#smartlink-products)

 

@DieselnDust knows Mike du Toit.  He was using the fundamental strain gauges in power meters in cattle scales in 1999.

 

The fundamental technology have been around for decades.

 

The rate at which consumer electronics progressed was the key game changer.

 

 

Going to be interesting to watch how the consumer electronic experience evolves in the next 5, 10 and 15 years ....

[shaper]

28 minutes ago, Shebeen said:

I can see the power meter market being incredibly cut-throat going forward.

The technology has matured, the market has stabilised and it's ripe for a price war.

Problem is that most people who need a pm have one already, and they paid a lot for their current unit. Trying to get them to upgrade or increase the market is only possible with pricing getting slashed. You saw a similar thing with HRM watches and GPS units, but the market could handle both budget options and higher priced premium products. Power meters can only add convenience and accuracy going forward, and that will plateau (if not already).

In 3 years I see half the players left, charging half the price.

 

(the tech is exploding in sailing, but the pricing is still bonkers.  https://theyachtrigger.com/cyclops-smart-link/#smartlink-products)

Exactly this I think, I have 2 Stages PM and had them for probably close to 7yrs and they have worked faultlessly. 

[peepeekaitjie]

45 minutes ago, Jakkals. said:

Spez needs Julian to start winning races

alaphilippe is washed, that's what remco is for

[droo]

2 hours ago, W@nted said:

And I understand that not everyone needs to drive a Ferrari. But surely as the prices of these "superbkes" increase, the price increases trickle down all the way down to the lower models. A few years ago a mid/top end frame with a top end groupset was more within my reach financially. Thesedays not anymore. Just my opinion of someone cycling for the last 20 years though.

Real sad bout stages though.

I think you'd need to compare in dollar or euro prices to get an accurate assessment of this, SA real income has been declining for years.

I suspect the trend will be the same, just not as steep a gradient as what we experience here.

[betaboy]

4 hours ago, ChrisF said:

 

Welllll .... MOST have been saying this.  There are the odd Hubber hell bent on telling us that the PREDICTIONS show a growing market, and that it is all good and well.

 

 

Back in the real world ... 

1. Only buy new if you really have to replace at this point in time

2. DO YOUR HOMEWORK !!!  Trek's local special is a JOKE compared to what they are doing overseas !  They are still milking us !!!  Okay, at least they are one of the first brands to embark on big specials in SA.  Some other brands are doing two-for-one specials in Europe, but hardly any discount here ....

3. As much as some Hubbers gets their knickers in a twist about "low balling" ..... the secondhand market is going to adjust as the real specials start on new bikes.

4. The more immediate issue .... it is getting stupidly difficult to get hold of some basic spares.

5. The closure of family shops such as Cyclosport is a vivid image of the REAL state of this industry.

I wouldn’t touch TREK!ever.  They dropped the moral ball with the Greg Lemond saga! And acting disgracefully, I personally believe karma is on its way! Plus that brand is linked to the biggest cycling fraud to ever hit our sport! It has zero value in my eyes. Cycling will carry on regardless, hopefully Trekless.

The new challenges ahead is backup and parts, as more riders decide to have a forever bike!

[betaboy]

I wonder if Sram would be interested in bringing Stages in-house and integrating into a new line. The electrical components are coming in leaps and bounds. LOOK have invested as they see the Chinese coming hard from a price point, so it’s will be a price war with established companies versus new kids. South Africa is a small market so tend to have limited supply and demand, so we do get milked but online has reshaped the consumers shopping habits. I see the LBS taking hard knocks to keep up with tech trends.

[BaGearA]

1 minute ago, betaboy said:

I wonder if Sram would be interested in bringing Stages in-house and integrating into a new line. The electrical components are coming in leaps and bounds. LOOK have invested as they see the Chinese coming hard from a price point, so it’s will be a price war with established companies versus new kids. South Africa is a small market so tend to have limited supply and demand, so we do get milked but online has reshaped the consumers shopping habits. I see the LBS taking hard knocks to keep up with tech trends.

With where Quarq is I highly doubt that will happpen 

[DieselnDust]

4 minutes ago, betaboy said:

I wonder if Sram would be interested in bringing Stages in-house and integrating into a new line. The electrical components are coming in leaps and bounds. LOOK have invested as they see the Chinese coming hard from a price point, so it’s will be a price war with established companies versus new kids. South Africa is a small market so tend to have limited supply and demand, so we do get milked but online has reshaped the consumers shopping habits. I see the LBS taking hard knocks to keep up with tech trends.

SRAM already own powertap and quarq. A third power meter company brings. No value. If shimano can swallow their pride they should buy Stages since they don’t know how to make a reliable powermeter on their own

i don’t think stages has anything proprietary that is worth purchasing . 4iiii does a crank arm conversion very well and offers left and dual sided at a lower cost.

Edited April 24 by DieselnDust

[DieselnDust]

1 hour ago, Shebeen said:

I can see the power meter market being incredibly cut-throat going forward.

The technology has matured, the market has stabilised and it's ripe for a price war.

Problem is that most people who need a pm have one already, and they paid a lot for their current unit. Trying to get them to upgrade or increase the market is only possible with pricing getting slashed. You saw a similar thing with HRM watches and GPS units, but the market could handle both budget options and higher priced premium products. Power meters can only add convenience and accuracy going forward, and that will plateau (if not already).

In 3 years I see half the players left, charging half the price.

 

(the tech is exploding in sailing, but the pricing is still bonkers.  https://theyachtrigger.com/cyclops-smart-link/#smartlink-products)

We can see this already. Favero is quickly becoming an aftermarket sales leader by offering good current value for a pm and they have options for the popular pedal interfaces. This is key to success.

[droo]

2 hours ago, ChrisF said:

 

Not sure if this is just an SA thing ....

 

A friend rented a bike at Bloemendal .... got hooked on MTB.

 

Bought a second hand HT .... I used a lot of my spares to fix that bike properly.

 

Took him about 2 months to reach the point where he "needed" a full suspension .... despite me introducing him to @Me rida my bicycle and explaining to him that it is the RIDER, not the bike, yada yada ....

 

Bought a full suspension off Bike Market .... this time I did not get involved in fixing it up ....

 

Took about 3 or 4 months until he broke the budget to buy a brand spanking new Scott Spark full suspension ....

 

Rode it HARD !!  Lots of air time .... and could not (would not) understand why he had to keep taking it back to the dealer for the one suspension issue after the other.  (my guess - he kept on bottoming it out with hard landings).  Then winter came ... lekker om in die modder te speel ....

 

Two extreme mud events and the bike took a serious hammering, all this before the bike had even reached 1 000km.

 

He refused to pay for a true strip down and rebuild .... not surprisingly a few components have since seen early failure.  Currently hanging on the wall as he cant get spares for the freebody, and wont pay up for a new freebody .... So a nice frame hanging on the wall, and no cycling ....

 

 

Sorry, back to the point .... is this an SA thing where "we have to" progress to the latest and greatest" at the expense of our budget ?   His version of this "expensive hobby" may well put people off MTB ... while in reality that 2nd hand full suss could still have been serving him WELL, and the sport could have been relatively affordable ....

If you don't look after your stuff you forfeit your right to bleat when it breaks. I have seen many a bike wrecked this way, and the perpetrators are usually the ones that make the most noise about the repair quotes.

As to your second point - show me a mechanic that rides anything fancier than GX or XT.

Edited April 24 by droo

[i24]

Elon Musk talks about an "idiot factor". Which he defines as the price of buying a component divided by the costs of material used to manufacture the component. The higher the idiot factor the greater the scope for business efficiency improvement.

Applied to the cycling industry, the "idiot factors" are very high and it seems the idiots are wisening up and looking for improved efficiency with their discretionary spending. 🫢

[Irvin85]

3 hours ago, PregoRoll said:

R&D Costs? 

Marketing? 

Support Staff? 

Sponsored Athletes?

That money has to come from somewhere 

All can realistically still be covered with a GP % of 50%, problem is when the tail gets to heavy for the dog. 

Someone somewhere is taking us for a ride. Just thinking at Specialized with their concept stores, there should be financial synergies that actually reduces cost and should result in them being able to get the bike to the consumer cheaper. That seems to not be the case. 

 

 

 

[PregoRoll]

11 minutes ago, Irvin85 said:

All can realistically still be covered with a GP % of 50%, problem is when the tail gets to heavy for the dog. 

Someone somewhere is taking us for a ride. Just thinking at Specialized with their concept stores, there should be financial synergies that actually reduces cost and should result in them being able to get the bike to the consumer cheaper. That seems to not be the case. 

 

 

 

😂

imma hold my tongue 

[Irvin85]

16 minutes ago, PregoRoll said:

😂

imma hold my tongue 

No Please don't. Enlighten me with your profound knowledge. I will be the first one to admit when I am wrong.

Edited April 24 by Irvin85

[The Ouzo]

a bottle of wine @ R200 is deemed rubbish, sell that same bottle for R2000 rand and all of a sudden its a brilliant wine and desirability increases.

[PregoRoll]

12 minutes ago, Irvin85 said:

No Please don't. Enlighten me with your profound knowledge. I will be the first one to admit when I am wrong.

alrighty then. 

Much of the love and joy we get out of watching events, participating in events and seeing our heros dropping watts comes directly from Manufacturers efforts in the industry. Be it from revenue gain and reinvestment into the sport (Have a look at what Spez does for disadvantaged riders around the world) or from partnerships with other brands and event managers. 

This is often funded from profits of sales and extra campaigns from unused marketing budgets. 

If we would all like to go back to 2004 when there was barely any televised racing, Sponsored athletes and "good faith initiatives" then we can. Then you can have that super cheap bike with the fancy brand on the side. But that is not where we are. 

 

Sure, manufacturers could drop some margin, I don't doubt that. But at what cost to the general industry and all those that benefit off of the brands reputation and reach? 

My other main point regarding Support. We know how important a good Support Team is for a brand. We see major brands with infinite budgets unable to fulfill basic requests. Should they be visited with pitchforks because their prices are high but service is trash? No. You all keep purchasing their products. So why would they do anything to improve it? 

Many, many "High roller" brands offer exceptional support service, Why? Because you bloody paid for it. Warranties arent free and are worked into the manufacturing price.