Cyclists with a "Running" Problem

[Mudsimus]

A lot of people are dismissing wrist based heart as being unreliable and inaccurate. This morning I wanted to put it to a test and did a 13km run with my Garmin 735xt (Wrist HR) and Suunto Ambit (Chest HR)

 

I ran a hill or two to see how fast each responded to input as well.

From the pics you can see that the Suunto went all haywire the first 7 minutes, and I did wet the belt. The Garmin responded perfect from the start.

 

On the hills both heart rates responded more or less the same, but the chest heart rate recorded the recovery a little faster, about a 5 second delay from the wrist.

 

Through out most of the run the heart rates corresponded almost 100%. Taking comfort into consideration the Garmin won hands out, and I consider it to be more accurate because of the start of the chest HR.

 

Interesting the Suunto lost 10m for every 1km on the Garmin, thats huge. It also recorded my average pace 4s slower.

Edited February 28, 2019 by Mudsimus

[Jackes]

http://www.rhodesrun.za.net/route/route-information

 

It says 13km and 2 hours in the race info?

 

That is the Mavis Bank Farm Check point (soft cut-off)

Mavis Bank Farm (‘Soft’ Cut-off)

There is a ‘soft’ cut-off at the Mavis Bank Farm Check Point (approx. 13km). Anyone arriving there after 2 hours from race start (9:00am) could be required to abandon the race. The Check Point Chief’s decision is final.

 

21km, Mavis Bank Top, 4.5 Hours is the first cut-off and if you miss that it is bye bye race entry.

Mavis Bank Top

The cut-off at the top of Mavis Bank (approx 21km) is 4½ hours from race start

Runners who arrive at the Check Point after the cut-off must abandon the race

 

...or if a runner does not make the border Check Point cut-off then the invitation is ‘lost’ and allocated to the waiting list

Edited February 28, 2019 by Jackes

[Dirkitech]

A lot of people are dismissing wrist based heart as being unreliable and inaccurate. This morning I wanted to put it to a test and did a 13km run with my Garmin 735xt (Wrist HR) and Suunto Ambit (Chest HR)

 

I ran a hill or two to see how fast each responded to input as well.

From the pics you can see that the Suunto went all haywire the first 7 minutes, and I did wet the belt. The Garmin responded perfect from the start.

 

On the hills both heart rates responded more or less the same, but the chest heart rate recorded the recovery a little faster, about a 5 second delay from the wrist.

 

Through out most of the run the heart rates corresponded almost 100%. Taking comfort into consideration the Garmin won hands out, and I consider it to be more accurate because of the start of the chest HR.

 

Interesting the Suunto lost 10m for every 1km on the Garmin, thats huge. It also recorded my average pace 4s slower.

That is an interesting comparison! I've heard the same rumours and what not about wrist HR, but I'm of the opinion that a reliable unit is okay for anyone that wants to track wrist HR and isn't Chris Froome or going to space.

 

Just wondering here, but did the suunto chest strap report to the garmin watch? If not, perhaps they have different stride lengths recorded? Or maybe suunto metrics reeds strides differentl and are losing out/garmin is gaining 1cm per stride?

[Jewbacca]

 

That is the Mavis Bank Farm Check point (soft cut-off)

Mavis Bank Farm (‘Soft’ Cut-off)

There is a ‘soft’ cut-off at the Mavis Bank Farm Check Point (approx. 13km). Anyone arriving there after 2 hours from race start (9:00am) could be required to abandon the race. The Check Point Chief’s decision is final.

 

21km, Mavis Bank Top, 4.5 Hours is the first cut-off and if you miss that it is bye bye race entry.

Mavis Bank Top

The cut-off at the top of Mavis Bank (approx 21km) is 4½ hours from race start

Runners who arrive at the Check Point after the cut-off must abandon the race

 

...or if a runner does not make the border Check Point cut-off then the invitation is ‘lost’ and allocated to the waiting list

 

Yeah.... But pretty sure that is the point Paddaman is talking about?

 

Being 'right' in this case is finding the relevant information to correlate with the initial input.

 

You might be 'right', but are arguing a moot point? Dunno..... It just seems that way.

 

Anyhoo, barring a pretty majour catastrophe I should be through both cut off points well ahead of time.

[Mudsimus]

That is an interesting comparison! I've heard the same rumours and what not about wrist HR, but I'm of the opinion that a reliable unit is okay for anyone that wants to track wrist HR and isn't Chris Froome or going to space.

 

Just wondering here, but did the suunto chest strap report to the garmin watch? If not, perhaps they have different stride lengths recorded? Or maybe suunto metrics reeds strides differentl and are losing out/garmin is gaining 1cm per stride?

No I ran with two watches. I have no idea where the difference comes from, that is too technical for me.

[Jackes]

Yeah.... But pretty sure that is the point Paddaman is talking about?

 

Being 'right' in this case is finding the relevant information to correlate with the initial input.

 

You might be 'right', but are arguing a moot point? Dunno..... It just seems that way.

 

Anyhoo, barring a pretty majour catastrophe I should be through both cut off points well ahead of time.

 

 

I'm not arguing anything, just giving the info as I have it.  I have not heard about anyone cut-off at that first one yet.  However the top is the major one and even the only one that the organizers also always refer to and that is a definite not to be missed.

 

Anyways, have a great run, it's a special race. 

[Frosty]

A lot of people are dismissing wrist based heart as being unreliable and inaccurate. This morning I wanted to put it to a test and did a 13km run with my Garmin 735xt (Wrist HR) and Suunto Ambit (Chest HR)

 

I ran a hill or two to see how fast each responded to input as well.

From the pics you can see that the Suunto went all haywire the first 7 minutes, and I did wet the belt. The Garmin responded perfect from the start.

 

On the hills both heart rates responded more or less the same, but the chest heart rate recorded the recovery a little faster, about a 5 second delay from the wrist.

 

Through out most of the run the heart rates corresponded almost 100%. Taking comfort into consideration the Garmin won hands out, and I consider it to be more accurate because of the start of the chest HR.

 

Interesting the Suunto lost 10m for every 1km on the Garmin, thats huge. It also recorded my average pace 4s slower.

I agree that the wrist-based isn't as inaccurate as many perceive. I've found the position on my arm and the buckle position that gives a consistent level of recording.

 

I've run and cycled with my 735XT (wrist-based), my Apple Watch 3 (wrist-based) and my 310XT (connected to a Garmin HR strap), all at the same time. The average HR were 1bpm out, while the delay/lag at the peaks (upper and lower) were only for a few seconds (probably about 10-15 seconds on Anaerobic zone efforts. Distance was the same (when rounded to the nearest 0.1Km). I've also done a few MTB rides to confirm if the extra movement of the device over rougher terrain affects the wrist-based Hr readings... very similar trends on the graph.

 

The only time there was a discrepancy was on the treadmill... the pace on the wrist-based was faster when the stride length was shorter, and vice-versa for a longer stride (slower pace).

 

My initial test is here - https://community.bikehub.co.za/topic/161729-wrist-based-hr-vs-chest-strap/

I wasn't able to copy the Apple Watch data, as it only shows on the Health data, but the heart rate was visible at a time stamp so plotting it on a graph was possible.

 

The very first test:

 

A MTB ride, when doing 2x 10min intevals at threshold.

 

Intervals, on a crit race

[Roguemeister]

Size 11 are not big feet[emoji3097]

[emoji56]

I wish I had size 11 feet

 

Sent from my VTR-L09 using Tapatalk

[Wayne Potgieter]

I am heavily tattooed on the wrists (full sleeves) and the wrist HR does not work so lekker for me.

 

To be fair, Garmin do warn you about tattoos.

 

On a seperate note, I am trying to run exclusively by Heart rate lately. I am completely ignoring distance and pace and only running at a comfortable Z3 (as low in Z3 as possible) for as long as i am enjoying myself. 

 

It has completely changed my feelings about running. I absolutley am falling in love with it.

[SwissVan]

A lot of people are dismissing wrist based heart as being unreliable and inaccurate. This morning I wanted to put it to a test and did a 13km run with my Garmin 735xt (Wrist HR) and Suunto Ambit (Chest HR)

 

I ran a hill or two to see how fast each responded to input as well.

From the pics you can see that the Suunto went all haywire the first 7 minutes, and I did wet the belt. The Garmin responded perfect from the start.

 

On the hills both heart rates responded more or less the same, but the chest heart rate recorded the recovery a little faster, about a 5 second delay from the wrist.

 

Through out most of the run the heart rates corresponded almost 100%. Taking comfort into consideration the Garmin won hands out, and I consider it to be more accurate because of the start of the chest HR.

 

Interesting the Suunto lost 10m for every 1km on the Garmin, thats huge. It also recorded my average pace 4s slower.

 

For running I've recently switched from chest strap to wrist based (Polar V800 with chest strap to Polar Vantage V being wrist based) and been wondering / making notes about the same thing. 

 

So far the biggest difference I've seen between the 2 (wearing them at the same time) are heart rate readings.

 

After various trouble shooting exercises I found that it is critical to have the watch strap as tight as possible (tight as in to tight), even one hole difference in the loose direction (on the watch strap) seems to cause a significant lower HR reading on the Vantage.

 

As for other metrics (gps measurements) there are some small differences which seem to be constant. This i think is due to polar using a different gps chip (Sony, which i believe Suunto also use) in the Vantage.

 

And some more proof that wrist based is not as good as chest based...

Polar have an orthostatic test which is used for gauging your state of recovery, with the Vantage you have to perform the test (4 minute test) using the chest strap...

[SwissVan]

I wish I had size 11 feet

 

Sent from my VTR-L09 using Tapatalk

 

They can work as flippers if you swim a lot and your feet are flexible...however running tends to negate that effect (= less flexible) and then they become like air brakes on an aircraft wing (lots of drag)...

[Roguemeister]

They can work as flippers if you swim a lot and your feet are flexible...however running tends to negate that effect (= less flexible) and then they become like air brakes on an aircraft wing (lots of drag)...

They are quite nice for swimming, but to get shoes, oh look, on cloud, is love to try some on, oh what's that, you don't have my size? Pity. Oh look, hokas, is love to try them on, oh what's that, you don't have my size? You get the point[emoji23]

 

Sent from my VTR-L09 using Tapatalk

[Lexx]

Little bit of topic. Since my Broken foot are now 100% healed up, I want to get back into the gym. But now I've been told to rather get a TRX Suspension System. Is this Home Training system actually better than going to the gym? Been reading up on it, and it seems that it does a pretty good job.

Edited March 1, 2019 by Lexx

[Chris_]

Little bit of topic. Since my Broken foot are now 100% healed up, I want to get back into the gym. But now I've been told to rather get a TRX Suspension System. Is this Home Training system actually better than going to the gym? Been reading up on it, and it seems that it does a pretty good job.

 

I've done a bit of rehab using it - shoulders and back. IF you get a solid program, it'll knock your socks off. Wife and I have actually considered getting one for home for just general strength stuff, its a surprisingly good tool.

[Mats]

Comrades subs are starting today!

 

I am split in two.

Originally I said that I will attempt Comrades for the first time in 2020.

 

And now I am bit confused as to if I should maybe give it a go this year or not.

 

I have already run a marathon within qualifying time so that is not a problem.

I know if I decide to give it a go my head will be strong enough.

 

However... I am missing my bike rides and training so far for this year had not been what it should be.

I am currently only on 248km running wise.

 

I am worried about this comrades because it is an up run, I have only been running for the last 1.5 years and my head says my body is not yet conditioned enough for comrades.

 

The last time I want to do is byte off too much too soon and kill the love for running

 

What do you guys think?

[Wayne Potgieter]

Little bit of topic. Since my Broken foot are now 100% healed up, I want to get back into the gym. But now I've been told to rather get a TRX Suspension System. Is this Home Training system actually better than going to the gym? Been reading up on it, and it seems that it does a pretty good job.

 

 

I've done a bit of rehab using it - shoulders and back. IF you get a solid program, it'll knock your socks off. Wife and I have actually considered getting one for home for just general strength stuff, its a surprisingly good tool.

As a piece of equipment its actually quite phenomenal.

 

If you buy a genuine one, it allows you access to an app that has daily workouts on it with videos and so on.

 

The downside is that like most home exercise equipment, you have to be particularly dedicated to use it,