WTF CSA?

[River Rat]

Not everything in life presents a strong enough business case for the whole community to buy into.

You want to be brought on board but you only want to ride your bike. So then why do you want to be on board?

Only you can answer that! Once you know the answer then there is a discussion.

But if you want a sales pitch I strongly suggest finding a club in your area that is trying to get young underprivileged children off the streets and into sport to assist with developing options for them. go for a few rides with this club and get to know the people and understand what they are trying to do.

Look at the work Quebeka is trying to do.

Then ask yourself would these kids have an option of becoming pro cyclists if something like CSA didn't exist?

 By simply stating "i just want to ride my bike!" is a valid choice but don't try and tear down houses that are trying to do something.

Part of the problem or part of the solution?

Which side of the fence do you want to be?

I'm not sure what role you play at CSA if any. But here's the problem you guys / CSA don't listen! So 90% (my estimate) of the cycling community really only want to ride their bikes and you would rather ignore them? So you don't need us? Really? If you're trying to promote CSA to someone like me you need to point out what CSA is doing right. You need to change my perception from CSA being a corrupt, incompetent and heavy handed organisation. My experience of CSA as someone who is forced to interact with them on the odd occasion that I do a race sanctioned by them, has left me with a very bad taste. I have watched them pull a lady out of the start chute in F batch because she was wearing a top without sleeves at Babbas Lodge race. I have personally been pulled aside and asked to produce my CSA license at the start of Sani by overzealous officials wanting to make an example of me, by the way CSA I'm still waiting for that apology. You quote Qhubeka as a good exmple of what CSA does, really I shudder to think what this wonderful initiative would be like if MTN was not involved. And by the way I have happily donated money to them and I will do so into the future as long as CSA keeps it's grubby hands off the money. So from my perspective CSA is the problem and if you care to read what I have written I don't sit on fences. 

[DieselnDust]

I'm not sure what role you play at CSA if any. But here's the problem you guys / CSA don't listen! So 90% (my estimate) of the cycling community really only want to ride their bikes and you would rather ignore them? So you don't need us? Really? If you're trying to promote CSA to someone like me you need to point out what CSA is doing right. You need to change my perception from CSA being a corrupt, incompetent and heavy handed organisation. My experience of CSA as someone who is forced to interact with them on the odd occasion that I do a race sanctioned by them, has left me with a very bad taste. I have watched them pull a lady out of the start chute in F batch because she was wearing a top without sleeves at Babbas Lodge race. I have personally been pulled aside and asked to produce my CSA license at the start of Sani by overzealous officials wanting to make an example of me, by the way CSA I'm still waiting for that apology. You quote Qhubeka as a good exmple of what CSA does, really I shudder to think what this wonderful initiative would be like if MTN was not involved. And by the way I have happily donated money to them and I will do so into the future as long as CSA keeps it's grubby hands off the money. So from my perspective CSA is the problem and if you care to read what I have written I don't sit on fences. 

 

 

It would appear that YOU are not listening.

I'm not CSA.

I'm not Quebeka.

I don't quote Quebeka as an example of what CSA does. I merely relate that Quebeka is an example of someone doing something!

CSA is a government body so if you want change YOU have to get involved within the structures it administers and make the change.

Soapboxing CSA's incompetence and lack of a plan whilst telling everyone they don't listen to you isn't going to change CSA. If youhave a plan then join a club, volunteer for the committee, attend you regional meetings, get onto the regional body and then start selling your plan. Maybe you'll be the next president. There's clearly enough passion, channel it

[shaper]

It would appear that YOU are not listening.

I'm not CSA.

I'm not Quebeka.

I don't quote Quebeka as an example of what CSA does. I merely relate that Quebeka is an example of someone doing something!

CSA is a government body so if you want change YOU have to get involved within the structures it administers and make the change.

Soapboxing CSA's incompetence and lack of a plan whilst telling everyone they don't listen to you isn't going to change CSA. If youhave a plan then join a club, volunteer for the committee, attend you regional meetings, get onto the regional body and then start selling your plan. Maybe you'll be the next president. There's clearly enough passion, channel it

Seems you don't listen.... he is not interested and just wants to ride his bike!!

[River Rat]

It would appear that YOU are not listening.

I'm not CSA.

I'm not Quebeka.

I don't quote Quebeka as an example of what CSA does. I merely relate that Quebeka is an example of someone doing something!

CSA is a government body so if you want change YOU have to get involved within the structures it administers and make the change.

Soapboxing CSA's incompetence and lack of a plan whilst telling everyone they don't listen to you isn't going to change CSA. If youhave a plan then join a club, volunteer for the committee, attend you regional meetings, get onto the regional body and then start selling your plan. Maybe you'll be the next president. There's clearly enough passion, channel it

Thank you for clearing up your role for me. So here's the double edge sword I have decided that CSA is not my priority but it is yours. So what are YOU doing?

[DieselnDust]

Thank you for clearing up your role for me. So here's the double edge sword I have decided that CSA is not my priority but it is yours. So what are YOU doing?

 

 

Participating

[gtr1]

So lots of bitching and moaning about CSA, but my question is, who is doing anything to try and change it. Bitching here is not going to change anything.

 

How many of you belong to a cycling club, and are part of the 'management' of said club ? And as a result, how many then attend their regional association meetings to have a say, as you are allowed as a registered club. And maybe even get elected or volunteer to be part of the 'management' And so on up to provincial level and even SA level at CSA.

 

I can answer that, almost nobody.

 

So if you want to effect change become part of the solution, and then implement all these great ideas and be involved in running the sport.

 

Or at the least, be involved in electing the right members to be involved in the running of the sport.

[Patchelicious]

So lots of bitching and moaning about CSA, but my question is, who is doing anything to try and change it. Bitching here is not going to change anything.

 

How many of you belong to a cycling club, and are part of the 'management' of said club ? And as a result, how many then attend their regional association meetings to have a say, as you are allowed as a registered club. And maybe even get elected or volunteer to be part of the 'management' And so on up to provincial level and even SA level at CSA.

 

I can answer that, almost nobody.

 

So if you want to effect change become part of the solution, and then implement all these great ideas and be involved in running the sport.

 

Or at the least, be involved in electing the right members to be involved in the running of the sport.

Another way of looking at it, is that if CSA did their job in the first place, nobody would be bitching.

 

But...

 

Some easy changes that don’t need more people sticking their fingers in the CSA pie.

 

Stop forcing fines, start encouraging membership.

 

Publish and apology for the insurance problem, an apology goes a long way in fixing a relationship.

 

Engage with licensed riders in an open forum with the intent of using that info to improve, like a user forum.

 

Engage with people who have tried to make contact, I know several! ( see Gerald’s post )

 

Publish a turnaround plan.

 

Use social media for positive engagement, not threats.

 

Undertake to see your membership fees as something to be earned, not something you are entitled too like a tax.

 

None of this needs any structural change if the people there who run EXCO want to make a change.

[milky4130]

I would Personally like to follow up on this.

Are you at nationals this year?

So this would have been round this time last year?

 

Please PM me the details, his name as well as CSA registration number.

 

 

Hi. Will PM you when back in town. Unfortunately no, not going to be in PMB this weekend. I walked away from BMX after the Alrode NAGS earlier this year.

Just for clarity & for my own understanding.

The claim is actually with Hollard Insurance or Road Accident Fund & not CSA per se?

Even if CSA was paid up at the time & there was funds available with either, you cannot legally claim from both i.e. Road Accident Fund\Hollalrd Insurance, at least this is what I was lead to believe, can anyone confirm this for me? Thanks

[gtr1]

Another way of looking at it, is that if CSA did their job in the first place, nobody would be bitching.

 

But...

 

Some easy changes that don’t need more people sticking their fingers in the CSA pie.

 

Stop forcing fines, start encouraging membership.

 

Publish and apology for the insurance problem, an apology goes a long way in fixing a relationship.

 

Engage with licensed riders in an open forum with the intent of using that info to improve, like a user forum.

 

Engage with people who have tried to make contact, I know several! ( see Gerald’s post )

 

Publish a turnaround plan.

 

Use social media for positive engagement, not threats.

 

Undertake to see your membership fees as something to be earned, not something you are entitled too like a tax.

 

None of this needs any structural change if the people there who run EXCO want to make a change.

All true, and some valid points, but the issue is that they are not doing this. So the only way to effect the change is to change the management. A bit like government. We can complain as much as we want but only by voting out the party and voting in a new one, can things really change.

 

So if the current management is not doing a good enough job, interested parties should be getting involved to change.

 

A bit like bitching about the ANC, but at the same time saying I don't vote as it's not going to change anything. Then you can't bitch about it. You have to accept what you get.

[Shebeen]

If there are any riders out there whom have been suspended or fined for riding in non sanctioned events and would be looking at taking CSA head on - I am prepared to do the following:

 

1) Pay for the first consultation with a legal team that has experience and success regarding this matter.

2) Contribute R20K to a legal fund,

that is an amazing gesture.

 

I would look at world wide precedent. it is a global directive/rule, surely we're not the only country that has an issue of it actually being enforced?

[River Rat]

Participating

After all that :huh:

[River Rat]

Another way of looking at it, is that if CSA did their job in the first place, nobody would be bitching.

 

But...

 

Some easy changes that don’t need more people sticking their fingers in the CSA pie.

 

Stop forcing fines, start encouraging membership.

 

Publish and apology for the insurance problem, an apology goes a long way in fixing a relationship.

 

Engage with licensed riders in an open forum with the intent of using that info to improve, like a user forum.

 

Engage with people who have tried to make contact, I know several! ( see Gerald’s post )

 

Publish a turnaround plan.

 

Use social media for positive engagement, not threats.

 

Undertake to see your membership fees as something to be earned, not something you are entitled too like a tax.

 

None of this needs any structural change if the people there who run EXCO want to make a change.

You make my point but with so much more eloquence.

[gogo@]

The question is asked, and I don't know why i just don't feel like being bothered to answer it.  It feels like being asked to justify your criticisms when you are not the one at fault.  Start at the beginning of this thread and focus on what people are saying about their problems with CSA then start addressing those instead of beating the messenger (who, let's face it, is also expected to pay CSA's bills).

But, since it's an issue and there is the insinuation that no one here is actually involved, I suppose I should answer. I have been on a club committee for 5 years (2013-2017) and on an event organizing committee for 6 going on 7.  And now I just want to ride my bike...

But I can't help myself because if no one organizes anything, nothing happens.

In our area, there have been a number of clubs. They come and go, mostly when the focus shifts from participation to racing.  Our neighbors in East London, FunTrax, haven't had that fate, I think because they've got the focus right.

Some CSA commissaires have been helpful to us in making suggestions about our event but on the whole we could have done things just as well without them. In the end they are only there to add stress, tick boxes, and cause issues with our sponsor.  Some of the things I've seen are not ethical at all, because commissaires also come from cycling communities and are not always impartial.  It makes sense to have a national body overseeing races to make sure that they are run safely and properly.  But when the commissaires leave before the end of the event (as some have) because the sharp point of the field have got their prizes, then you have to wonder.

I can go on but I won't.

I can say though that no small event can pay the people who voluntarily put in the time to make it happen.  And I can say that costs of services INCLUDING CSA to run the event are much higher than people think and sponsorships hard to come by and small when you do.  It's also a huge challenge to find enough people to do the committee work and marshall on the day.

So hats off to those who put on an event like K2C.  I have some idea of what's involved behind the scenes and do wish more people would get behind their clubs but fully understand why they don't.  For one thing, where's the buck going to stop if things go wrong?  You give rider briefings, in writing, via email, Facebook, on the start line, over and over and people still don't head the safety warnings, some as simple as keep left of the middle line on an open road.  What happens if they connect a car? Sure, you can say, it's their own fault, but we as organizers feel personally involved, so you don't just walk away from accidents and problems like everyone else.

I've moved away from CSA a bit here, but, actually, the point is made -- there is so much that volunteers are expected to do to make cycling as a sport (for participation AND competition) happen but you don't get much support in this process.  ASA has managed to keep clubs going by insisting people have club membership to get their licenses.  CSA has a "membership" category that no longer requires club affiliation.  So, why belong to a club?  To pay your subs so you can be on the committee??

If there's one thing CSA can look at, it's how to support clubs more and that means encouraging membership, encouraging and promoting small and big events alike and encouraging participation.  What we had, instead, besides the big stick to follow rules for sanctioning was a notice saying clubs MUST get involved in cycling development, i.e. growing the sport in "non traditional" (yes, poor, black) communities.  How??  We can hardly find people to time-keep and post results at trials and hill climbs.

So, why would you want to belong to a club?? Do you?  If so, what are the benefits and how do you get other people to join?

Or, what???

I challenge CSA "fans" (you guys want a fence) to have a good look at the situation and tell us what they are doing to grow the sport, not just for those who have racing licenses, but for everyone.  And don't be so sensitive if you aren't responsible for past problems, just accept that they exist and need dealing with.

PS: I am an upcountry PPA member and have been for years but dropped my CSA membership in 2016 when I couldn't renew it because although I'm on their system apparently I don't have a valid email address, so cannot register or have my password reset or get it done by their staff.

[gogo@]

Another way of looking at it, is that if CSA did their job in the first place, nobody would be bitching.

 

But...

 

Some easy changes that don’t need more people sticking their fingers in the CSA pie.

 

Stop forcing fines, start encouraging membership.

 

Publish and apology for the insurance problem, an apology goes a long way in fixing a relationship.

 

Engage with licensed riders in an open forum with the intent of using that info to improve, like a user forum.

 

Engage with people who have tried to make contact, I know several! ( see Gerald’s post )

 

Publish a turnaround plan.

 

Use social media for positive engagement, not threats.

 

Undertake to see your membership fees as something to be earned, not something you are entitled too like a tax.

 

None of this needs any structural change if the people there who run EXCO want to make a change.

Read this ^^^

Ignore my ramble above 

[Dirkitech]

I am only affiliated as a member so I can't comment on what happens at an executive management level. But if you're really interested then read here: https://www.cyclingsa.com/governance/

 

there's definitely a few people in the management structure that need to be removed. The organisation needs strong leadership from the top down. talkers need to be replaced with doers who can talk.

At a regional level, WPCycling is doing an admirable job even it is not without its own troubles. All the WPcycling events I've participated have been well run and good value for money.

 

You cannot have a good CSA without first building a strong regional body. What are you okes doing to support your regional bodies?

If memory serves and my understanding was correct, then this is what Rolling Stone was conveying about the relevance (?) of CSA- there is more support needed at regional levels. I assume stronger regional presences would allow for stronger influence for CSA to fix their incompetence. Since Rolling Stone's involvement with track cycling at HNP started, I've seen a drastic increase of communication and events at HNP. It is irrelevant whether people like him or not, but as far as my comprehension goes, he is an example of how one person is making a noticeable difference to the cycling of South Africa (not talking about the extents of differences being made, but if 20 people started making this difference, thats 20 people with pseudo-"authority" to influence CSA's incompetent management structure).

 

As much as I turned over my cents and regret paying my CSA membership this year, if any of that money made it to HNP's youth development, it would be money well spent.

 

edit: feel I should add this- as much as I despise CSA and would want to burn their structure down for competent people to rebuild it, as I understand it they are the evil gatekeepers sustaining the link allowing global uci participating. Severing that link, according to my understanding, would be damaging towards cycling development in South Africa, simply through loss of UCI participation.

Also adding- most of what I know about CSA comes from this thread and links within. If I made a mistake, point it out and ask me, I will reflect on it.

Edited October 5, 2018 by Dirkitech

[Eugene]

It would appear that YOU are not listening.

I'm not CSA.

I'm not Quebeka.

I don't quote Quebeka as an example of what CSA does. I merely relate that Quebeka is an example of someone doing something!

CSA is a government body so if you want change YOU have to get involved within the structures it administers and make the change.

Soapboxing CSA's incompetence and lack of a plan whilst telling everyone they don't listen to you isn't going to change CSA. If youhave a plan then join a club, volunteer for the committee, attend you regional meetings, get onto the regional body and then start selling your plan. Maybe you'll be the next president. There's clearly enough passion, channel it

You make some valid points, however I disagree with your contention that unhappy cyclists must get involved.

 

The point here is a simple one. Not every cyclist wants to or can join a club or sit on a committee or join any regional body. Not every cyclist has the means to do this.

 

Cyclists therefore pay an annual fee for someone to do this for them. When this annual fee is not being utilized properly or for the purpose it is intended, then they have every right to bitch and moan and call for someone else to manage what they have paid for.