Are cyclist just too superior to keep their masks/buffs on

[ChrisF]

It seems sit-down restaurants etc might be opening soon.

 

Looking ahead, 'should' (hypothetically!) the requirement to wear masks while exercising falls away, what are (some) of the participants on this this tread going do if it is not compulsory anymore?

 

Skip restaurants / hair cuts etc, as well as exercising outside eg?  (As risk management has suddenly take on a new dimension.) 

 

I CAN confirm what happened when a friend contracted Covid ... suddenly all the "wise ones" saw the need to to social distance, wash hands, AND to start wearing masks in office ....  

 

Talk is cheap .... people change their behaviour when it starts impacting THEM ....

 

 

As for your question - sadly the "requirement" has a 2% impact to the riders on the Tygerberg MTB trails .... so if the 2% stops wearing their masks it would hardly make any difference.

 

So the answer to your question - The sad reality is that the behaviour of fellow club members means that "I" can ALREADY not ride on these trails ....  Their are MANY club members that are older/diabetic/immune compromised/other medical conditions ..... and these members are being shown the middle finger by each and every one of the mask less riders.

 

 

Let's not forget .... on the Tygerberg trails the REQUEST for masks came from the Club and the land owners.  

 

 

 

and we wonder why Meerendal keeps their trails closed ....

[Eldron]

I think you've misunderstood. This is not people who do suffer form Asthma but people who don't have a history of asthma that are now showing symptoms of it. My GP told me at the start that this was a risk and that I need to consider how and when I use it while out riding. To date I'm not having any issues but I can feel how breathing in wet air through a sweat soaked mask is going to cause problems.

The fundamental issue is don't ride or run or surf or golf, or yoga in groups. If you fall into a high risk group think about how you lower your risk of exposure and thus your risk of transmitting it.

Asymptomatic transmission is proving to be rare (comments made by WHO head of Virology and other medical researchers and practitioners). 

Yes a mask is helpful in reducing transmission when you're in a confined space or around a lot of people. Its not helpful if using it in a manner that changes your own risk profile from low risk to high risk.

Other than that the rest is fear mongering. Morally the right thing to do is everyone stay home and lock yourselves away for 2 years.

However fortunately the authorities realise that risk management is the only viable course of action

 

I understood fine - what I meant was that exercising outside (where there is a mask requirement) is optional. If you start getting MaskEIA then either cycle slower (these isn't any racing going on so no need for intervals training) or switch to indoor where you don't need the mask.

 

Hopefully the SA government takes note of the WHO guidelines and replaces the mask guidelines with "exercise alone or side by side" style advice. That said - us saffers are not good at following guidelines, rules or laws!

 

Agreed 100% on taking responsibility for your own actions based on your risk status - it does get a bit murky when common sense, public entitlement and local law don't line up.

[The Ouzo]

I understood fine - what I meant was that exercising outside (where there is a mask requirement) is optional. If you start getting MaskEIA then either cycle slower (these isn't any racing going on so no need for intervals training) or switch to indoor where you don't need the mask.

 

Hopefully the SA government takes note of the WHO guidelines and replaces the mask guidelines with "exercise alone or side by side" style advice. That said - us saffers are not good at following guidelines, rules or laws!

 

Agreed 100% on taking responsibility for your own actions based on your risk status - it does get a bit murky when common sense, public entitlement and local law don't line up.

and somebody will come up with a reason why the government is taking away our freedom by asking us to ride alone or side by side.

[TNT1]

Amongst all this talk of what's good, and right, and legal, has anyone been arrested/fined/sent to the naughty corner/whatever for riding in a group or not wearing a mask?

 

Further to that, is there any (even anecdotal) evidence of anyone getting infected with corona by a group on a bike ride, in SA or anywhere in the world?

Edited June 17, 2020 by TNT1

[Vetplant]

But have it handy (or around your neck to pull up when social distancing isn't possible

Sometimes it matters who says something. Thanks for your balanced post DnD and specifically this last line.

 

I tried to reason with Pyga that having a mask on your person is important, but was accused of just creating unlikely scenarios for the sake of arguing. Maybe because I was viewed as someone from the "other side".

 

Anyone of us that cannot change our stance when provided with sufficient evidence from reliable sources is way too arrogant for their own good. So from a risk-balance perspective I am happy for people who exercise to be doing so without a mask, with the caveat that they do everything possible to social distance, AND then have a mask handy for those scenarios if they can't.

 

As for myself, I will continue exercising with a mask during low-intensity portions. For high intensity intervals I will only do them without a mask when there is no-one around.

 

PS. To previous posters who threw in the Karen's remarks: There is no way I can have a meaningful discussion with people that just throws anyone on the pro-mask side(Or any other differing opinion)  of the spectrum into the KAREN box. So feel free to hit "IGNORE" on my profile tab.

[DieselnDust]

I understood fine - what I meant was that exercising outside (where there is a mask requirement) is optional. If you start getting MaskEIA then either cycle slower (these isn't any racing going on so no need for intervals training) or switch to indoor where you don't need the mask.

 

Hopefully the SA government takes note of the WHO guidelines and replaces the mask guidelines with "exercise alone or side by side" style advice. That said - us saffers are not good at following guidelines, rules or laws!

 

Agreed 100% on taking responsibility for your own actions based on your risk status - it does get a bit murky when common sense, public entitlement and local law don't line up.

 

 

Broadly I agree. What I don't agree with is the prescriptiveness of the suggestions on how people should exercise or where. People who are fit enough to be doing interval training aren't necessarily an at risk group.

WHO suggests 75min minimum of High intensity exercise per week to maintain a health body or 3hrs of low to medium intensity. Should that 75min then be on an IDT if that's the only time available? What if person does not have an IDT? 

I think being in a largely socialist environment alters ones perspective on freedoms. The USA provides us a clear difference of perspective between the more Socialist leaning left and the more freedom/ freemarket oriented right. The left calls for everyone comply to "our" thinking while the right says "we'll chose". The left puts lots of socialist grants in place while the right still requires people to fend for themselves to a large degree. Each perspective is based on each sides requirements for themselves.

The common ground is the basic requirements that both sides can do. Social distance and hygiene (including wearing of masks when in the presence of a large number of the same people). The rest is arguing about whether their system is better than the other which ultimately is semantics.

The key issue is to avoid groups. Interval training alone isn't the issue as having no mask on is not going to increase anyones risk.

 

If we stick to the guiding principals of what we're being asked to do which is keep your distance, don't go out if you're ill, stay healthy and out of the hospital and discuss within that framework that we'd have less 44page debates.

[Wayne pudding Mol]

I have a major problem with this. I've just ordered my Oakley branded mask and headband to match my Oakley (exercise only) glasses.

 

 

What now?

wear them on your runs  - get the mask made into a speedo for your triathlons

[ChrisF]

Amongst all this talk of what's good, and right, and legal, has anyone been arrested/fined/sent to the naughty corner/whatever for riding in a group or not wearing a mask?

 

Further to that, is there any (even anecdotal) evidence of anyone getting infected with corona by a group on a bike ride, in SA or anywhere in the world?

 

Of the six people I personally know that got infected with Corona, only ONE has a reasonable degree of certainty where he contracted it .... one of his collegues had it 10 days earlier, and he was the first of another 120 people in their company to test positive.

 

 

The others not so clear cut.  Most likely either  1 of 2 that first contracted it, but absolutely no idea where they got it .....

 

The last one was asymptomatic, and only got tested due to other medical issues.  Again, absolutely no idea where he contracted it.  His family was very vocal about the total lack of tracing attempts .... NO idea where he got it, and even less of an idea how many people he might have infected.  He was in Hospital 1, old age home, hospital 2, back at the old age home before the test results came back ....

 

 

So realistically, it would be virtually impossible to pin point if you got it when rubbing shoulders passing another rider along Protea corridor .....

 

 

 

Let's for one second consider the possibility that the WHO (and most other governments) have a point with "social distancing" and "use a mask when you cant maintain a safe distance" .... it IS so easy to pull up your buff when passing others along the few dual direction trails.  It is EASY to adhere to the spirit of "safe distance" and "use a mask" as realistically applicable to your ride/run/walk .... 

 

 

 

It really is EASY.

[Eldron]

Broadly I agree. What I don't agree with is the prescriptiveness of the suggestions on how people should exercise or where. People who are fit enough to be doing interval training aren't necessarily an at risk group.

WHO suggests 75min minimum of High intensity exercise per week to maintain a health body or 3hrs of low to medium intensity. Should that 75min then be on an IDT if that's the only time available? What if person does not have an IDT? 

I think being in a largely socialist environment alters ones perspective on freedoms. The USA provides us a clear difference of perspective between the more Socialist leaning left and the more freedom/ freemarket oriented right. The left calls for everyone comply to "our" thinking while the right says "we'll chose". The left puts lots of socialist grants in place while the right still requires people to fend for themselves to a large degree. Each perspective is based on each sides requirements for themselves.

The common ground is the basic requirements that both sides can do. Social distance and hygiene (including wearing of masks when in the presence of a large number of the same people). The rest is arguing about whether their system is better than the other which ultimately is semantics.

The key issue is to avoid groups. Interval training alone isn't the issue as having no mask on is not going to increase anyones risk.

 

If we stick to the guiding principals of what we're being asked to do which is keep your distance, don't go out if you're ill, stay healthy and out of the hospital and discuss within that framework that we'd have less 44page debates.

 

Like I said - cycling outdoors is optional.

 

You can get your WHO recommended exercise without leaving your house if you want. Cycling is purely a choice you make.

 

The mask thing I'm more or less with you. Riding alone is best. Like someone else said - keep it with you round your neck in case you encounter other people - both for infection and social reasons. 

 

Without getting into the binary them/left/us/right debate - I mostly agree with you. We should have all the freedoms we want in the world but there are situations where those freedoms have to be curtailed to ensure the health of the collective.

 

The example I like to use is vaccines. Things like HPV and Tetanus vaccines etc it is your choice - you can decide whether to have one or not because your choice will not affect others. Polio, MMR etc then you should be forced to have one because if enough don't we go back to the dark ages of iron lungs and disabled children.

[Eldron]

and somebody will come up with a reason why the government is taking away our freedom by asking us to ride alone or side by side.

 

It is interesting how your echo chamber changes your views.

 

Denmark has been amazing during #coronaworld. The government has been (largely) clear, consistent and transparent and the people have been (largely) compliant, engaged and involved. Nobody rode more than 2 at a time when it was advised (not law - just advised), people didn't gather in crowds, social distancing was observed etc.

 

I trust the government highly and have seen the benefits of social reponsibility (not socialism!). I get more and more pained when I see the South African attitude of f*ck you mate I'm ok. It is completely understandable of course but once one has seen that benefits of working together seeing people divide into groups to try ad slay the "other" is hugely frustrating.

 

Easy for me to say as I live in an almost homogenous society where poverty and unemployment are unheard of. SA is a massively heterogenous society where you're forced to look after number 1.

 

Wow. Where did that mini rant come from???

[Duane_Bosch]

wear them on your runs  - get the mask made into a speedo for your triathlons

What I do could hardly be considered running. It's more shuffling. I look forward to the day where I can call myself a jogger.

[Duane_Bosch]

Of the six people I personally know that got infected with Corona, only ONE has a reasonable degree of certainty where he contracted it .... one of his collegues had it 10 days earlier, and he was the first of another 120 people in their company to test positive.

 

I heard on the radio the other night a guy saying that he had contracted it but had no idea how. He and his wife were PROPERLY locking down. No going out. Deliveries and disinfecting those.

 

I do think we all have blind spots where we inadvertently expose ourselves to risk. My coffee habit for example. The barista isn't wearing gloves. He hands me the coffee... Etc etc.

['Dale]

Don't be filled with hysteria and follow the clickbaiting media headlines blindly.

Don't be filled with bravado and follow your reactive ego blindly.

Apply common sense generously.

 

Stay strong, healthy and safe, Peoples.

 

[Shebeen]

It is interesting how your echo chamber changes your views.

 

Denmark has been amazing during #coronaworld. The government has been (largely) clear, consistent and transparent and the people have been (largely) compliant, engaged and involved. Nobody rode more than 2 at a time when it was advised (not law - just advised), people didn't gather in crowds, social distancing was observed etc.

 

I trust the government highly and have seen the benefits of social reponsibility (not socialism!). I get more and more pained when I see the South African attitude of f*ck you mate I'm ok. It is completely understandable of course but once one has seen that benefits of working together seeing people divide into groups to try ad slay the "other" is hugely frustrating.

 

Easy for me to say as I live in an almost homogenous society where poverty and unemployment are unheard of. SA is a massively heterogenous society where you're forced to look after number 1.

 

Wow. Where did that mini rant come from???

Denmark compared to SA, you might as well be on mars.

I know it's well intentioned, but it only really shows us what could be possible in dreamland.

I'd love to see what a service delivery protest looks like in Kobenhaven?

[Shebeen]

I heard on the radio the other night a guy saying that he had contracted it but had no idea how. He and his wife were PROPERLY locking down. No going out. Deliveries and disinfecting those.

 

I do think we all have blind spots where we inadvertently expose ourselves to risk. My coffee habit for example. The barista isn't wearing gloves. He hands me the coffee... Etc etc.

and it is on the radio because it is a rare story!

[DieselnDust]

It is interesting how your echo chamber changes your views.

 

Denmark has been amazing during #coronaworld. The government has been (largely) clear, consistent and transparent and the people have been (largely) compliant, engaged and involved. Nobody rode more than 2 at a time when it was advised (not law - just advised), people didn't gather in crowds, social distancing was observed etc.

 

I trust the government highly and have seen the benefits of social reponsibility (not socialism!). I get more and more pained when I see the South African attitude of f*ck you mate I'm ok. It is completely understandable of course but once one has seen that benefits of working together seeing people divide into groups to try ad slay the "other" is hugely frustrating.

 

Easy for me to say as I live in an almost homogenous society where poverty and unemployment are unheard of. SA is a massively heterogenous society where you're forced to look after number 1.

 

Wow. Where did that mini rant come from???

 

 

but a good one and worthwhile evolving the debate toward