TMNP Activity Card system - there has to be a better way

[Danger Dassie]

15 hours ago, Robbie Stewart said:

I've ridden all over the Cape in the decade I've been on my MTB, yet I still haven't ridden Tokai. I'm just not convinced yet that the effort is worth it. let it be known I absolutely detest any form of waiting or bureaucracy, so that has been the main driving factor (of course, I'm probably building this huge obstacle in my head of driving all the way south from the upper parts of the west coast Blouberg side, potentially for nothing). That said, I'd probably end up that side this weekend if the weather permits. Let's hope it was worth it.

This is the most Capetonian post yet .... 😋

[DieselnDust]

On 6/13/2023 at 7:54 PM, Zebra said:

I am a ‘payer’. Regularly. Not sanctimonious, but feel it is the right thing to do.

guys photoshopping dates? Then likely bitching about corrupt govt officials!

Much ‘ink’ spilt on these pages of how hard it is; how their systems are outdated, how this or that rider would do it differently…

I have a contrarian view; toughen the f@ck up, spend 20 minutes ONCE per year to get the permit, pay R1.04 per day (R380 per annum), ride some truly amazing trails, and SIMULTANEOUSLY write/lobby the authorities - well- TRY and lobby - for some of our fees to be re-invested in developing/maintains our trails…

There may be well a few on here who will ‘drop’ R5k -without hesitation - on incremental gains by buying an accessory, or replacing a part, but boy, do they WHINE about the fee…

Pay the once-off annual fee / ride the trails for 12 months / enjoy / the end.

Chris

 

 

I agree, its a small cost BUT it should be more convenient to acquire and it MUST be administered in a more efficient and user friendly manner. Why the need for a Wild card + Activity Card. There should be one card with different activity permits loaded.

On 6/13/2023 at 8:41 PM, Hairy said:

I think the initial gripes here is that it was always free to ride the mountain, then it became a "wonder" and SANPARKS got involved, started asking for money to ride the mountain and then gave nothing back for the money.

But that is going back into my deep dark memory banks.

When was it free? I don't recall it ever being free even in the early 90's it was about R5-00 then it crept up to about R15 by 2000. MTO also had a permit system since it was a working plantation back then

On 6/13/2023 at 9:30 PM, NC_lurker said:

Wild card doesn't allow you cycling access. One needs a level 3 activity permit for that.

What's really special is that I can access Silvermine west with just my activity card if I'm on my bike or with my dog. But if neither of those two are with me, then the activity card doesn't grant access....  Impressive thinking by the SANParks team in Pretoria who came up with this stuff.

LOL, yes it takes an impressive mind to come up with this level of inefficiency

On 6/13/2023 at 10:20 PM, Anthem24 said:

And if you happen to lose your activity card and somebody hands it in at the Tokai boom, they will stick it in the window of the booth, but they won't call or e-mail to let you know it's there, despite making you fill in all those details on the application form.

There is no communication between the booth and the office that issues the card a km up the road. I was given all sorts of excuses about them being in different sections when I pointed this out a month or two ago, and suggested they up their service delivery game. 

Its kind of weird because they see themselves as the card owner while you are the permit holder.....I don't really understand because when I lost mine I called the office to check if it had been picked up and sure enough it was and the good Samaritan handed it in. When I asked why they hadn't called me, firstly i was given a lecture on not losing your card after which  all I heard was blah blah blah while she explained. I just popped around to collect mine. It was less painful ths way

On 6/14/2023 at 9:15 AM, Jewbacca said:

Is one of the issues not the fact that the card has multiple uses?

I mean, climbers, dog walkers, paragliders all apply for the same card.

TMNP grants permission to Takai MTB to use that section of the land FOR MTB, but nowhere does it say 'we are going all in for MTB'

They maintain most of the walking paths brilliantly, they catch poachers often, they do a fantastic job preserving and rehabilitating parts of the mountain DESPITE people not following/obeying the No Entry signs etc

I'm not happy that it's a pay twice system, but in reality, the MTB/cycling part of the contract as well as the actual Cyclists part is a headache for them.

If they then said 'OK, we will sell a MTB only' card, would they then use that money to maintain the trails/roads to and from the Block house AND Tokai and other state owned trail land? The Glen?

Or would they need to separate Tokai? Then you would still need another permit to ride to Block House etc

Looking at it as an overall, my takeaway (aside from the mismanagement and fund appropriation in HQ) is priority of what a National Park actually is.

It isn't a MTB park, but it has one in it which they allow.

 

I think the overarching sentiment here is that the management of activities could be much more efficient yet decades later we're still on a laminated card with a mug shot stuck to it with Pritt....

Then again what has out present government actually fixed in the last 29 years of "Rule" as they call it? We all know what happened to the last guy who mess up relations with Poland

[tubed]

Seems to me the Activity Card is going the way of the TV licence - zero benefit from the funds spent, but you are forced under certain circumstances to buy one.

On the positive side, I have been fortunate to visit both Kruger and Kalagadi in the last 2 years and Sanparks are still doing a great job there. In Kalagadi, the rangers and staff are particularly pleasant. 

[Shebeen]

On 6/14/2023 at 12:14 PM, Robbie Stewart said:

ahem, Jonkershoek owns that title.

I would consider Jonkers to be in Stellenbosch, but they do have an 021 dialing code if you want to be fussy.

 

The debate over tokai and management of it will never end. I've just realized I let my tokai mtb membership lapse, so this thread has spurred me on to renew it again.

[mazambaan]

On 6/18/2023 at 5:47 AM, tubed said:

Seems to me the Activity Card is going the way of the TV licence - zero benefit from the funds spent, but you are forced under certain circumstances to buy one.

On the positive side, I have been fortunate to visit both Kruger and Kalagadi in the last 2 years and Sanparks are still doing a great job there. In Kalagadi, the rangers and staff are particularly pleasant. 

Off topic here but I think the good outcomes are due to the individual, not any HO Sanparks management.

[Headshot]

My card has also lapsed so I've been forced to pay the crazy SANP Tokai gate fee of R100. The main reason I haven't renewed yet is the drive to Tokai - only about 20km round trip  and the hassles involved - photos and the form, completed and signed by both applicants. Last time they made me get my wife to sign the form at work and whatsap me a copy so they could see she'd signed the indemnity and issue the card to her. I still have flashbacks of utter frustration when I think about going back. 🙂 

[DJR]

2 hours ago, Headshot said:

............... I still have flashbacks of utter frustration when I think about going back. .......... 

Same here

[Shebeen]

2 hours ago, Headshot said:

My card has also lapsed so I've been forced to pay the crazy SANP Tokai gate fee of R100. The main reason I haven't renewed yet is the drive to Tokai - only about 20km round trip  and the hassles involved - photos and the form, completed and signed by both applicants. Last time they made me get my wife to sign the form at work and whatsap me a copy so they could see she'd signed the indemnity and issue the card to her. I still have flashbacks of utter frustration when I think about going back. 🙂 

have you heard of the Greencard*?

You need to be a cape town resident. It costs you R180, and you can get 12 entries to CPoint/boulders per year. Against R97** per single entry it's a bargain, but you'll have to go to tokai during office hours and fill in forms. and you'll need ID photos for some reason too.

https://www.sanparks.org/parks/table_mountain/tourism/access-cards-permits.php#green

 

* no, because it is such a mission to get one- it's not that widely known!

** if you have family/visitors from overseas, it costs a whopping R376 for them to visit cape point. or they can go in on your greencard and effectively pay R15. 

Edited June 19, 2023 by Shebeen

[Hairy]

On 6/17/2023 at 3:40 PM, DieselnDust said:

When was it free? I don't recall it ever being free even in the early 90's it was about R5-00 then it crept up to about R15 by 2000. MTO also had a permit system since it was a working plantation back then

I have always know Tokai and Silvermine to be a pay to enter ride, but the City face of the mountain I always understood to be free before SANPARKS took over?

[Tim Brink]

I only saw this today, on Vleisbroek, with objection window closing today, but one interesting line within it:

https://www.sanparks.org/assets/docs/parks_table_mountain/2023/revised-draft-implementation-plan-2023.pdf?fbclid=IwAR2zsV-_6CqGv2f92TzqX_87i50dOmuh0-L6ow4p3avoD4NF8jcodNyn38o

It should only take 13 years to implement, but at least they are aware it is needed!

[Headshot]

15 hours ago, Tim Brink said:

I only saw this today, on Vleisbroek, with objection window closing today, but one interesting line within it:

https://www.sanparks.org/assets/docs/parks_table_mountain/2023/revised-draft-implementation-plan-2023.pdf?fbclid=IwAR2zsV-_6CqGv2f92TzqX_87i50dOmuh0-L6ow4p3avoD4NF8jcodNyn38o

It should only take 13 years to implement, but at least they are aware it is needed!

Yes stated like it's some revelation that recently came to light... SANP is an excellent example of why SA is failing. Government is simply hopeless. I see it every day in the way state institutions are managed. They are rule bound and incapable of making practical efficient rules. The concept of cause and effect are lost on them.

[The Ouzo]

you see a problem, I see a tender opportunity.  

[Jewbacca]

I'm loath to start pointing all the fingers at all the things.

In reality, the important parts of TMNP/SANparks are done fairly well in the cape.

They preserve nature/plants, they maintain the hiking trails, they patrol and monitor activity in the fragile areas.

They catch a heap of poachers every year, they have really made some places brilliant to visit.

I hate to say it, but MTB is not particularly high up on their list of priorities. 

Could they improve their government run financials? Of course. 

We sit here in our castles throwing the baby out with the bathwater because they don't seem to care much for a hand full of 5%ers people who often struggle to follow the rules in place anyway.

As someone who uses the mountain and the sea/coastline almost daily for a number of activities, I can appreciate the effort and resources being used correctly to assist in completing the important parts of maintaining a nature reserve.

I do believe that MTB is a bit like hand soap in the bathrooms of the airport. It exists, people use it and some people will be really upset if it isnt there, but it isnt that important in the overall efficiency of the airports main criteria

[DieselnDust]

15 minutes ago, The Ouzo said:

you see a problem, I see a tender opportunity.  

First you must set up a commission of inquiry to understand the problem.

then you must hire consultants to tell you how many opportunities to carve up the problem exists. Make sure this consultant is a family member cos you know children gotta eat. 
Identify how many family meme bees need to benefit.then go out to tender for same number of contracts as there are family members.

main outcome of the tender is to identify how many subcontracts are required for the grandchildren 

[The Ouzo]

11 minutes ago, DieselnDust said:

First you must set up a commission of inquiry to understand the problem.

then you must hire consultants to tell you how many opportunities to carve up the problem exists. Make sure this consultant is a family member cos you know children gotta eat. 
Identify how many family meme bees need to benefit.then go out to tender for same number of contracts as there are family members.

main outcome of the tender is to identify how many subcontracts are required for the grandchildren 

The Ouzo consultancy services Pty LTD can do all of that.

And since I identify as a disabled black female I also have full BBBEEE status.

[DieselnDust]

17 hours ago, Hairy said:

I have always know Tokai and Silvermine to be a pay to enter ride, but the City face of the mountain I always understood to be free before SANPARKS took over?

Only Table Mountain was free. The area from southern

 cross to Kirstenbosch was closed to mountain bikers till around 2015 when it was opened to cater for mountain bikers during Tokai’s closure due to fire. The tokai Mtb chaps were key to getting that opened