What kind of event would you enter?

[DonatelloOnPinarello]

Being inspired by the “events being cancelled again” thread, where I probably got a little emotionally involved and while trying to make a profound point, probably just lost everyone’s interest by overdoing things, and learned what TLDR means????

But, what sort of events do you, as a rider wish to see? Keeping in mind what you now know pandemic wise, and being reasonable about your expectations of what can be done/offered by organisers?

when paying R1500+ per day (which relates to a very comfortable hotel/guesthouse/Lodge/BnB rate), what sort of facilities/amenities do you expect?
 

realising participation would be limited to somewhere between 30% and 50% of pre pandemic levels, how much of a premium/surcharge would you be willing to pay to still be able to do your favourite 3 day stage race? 

Edited August 11, 2021 by DonatelloOnPinarello

[DieselnDust]

Look back to pre 2012 MTb stage racing boom. Events back in the day were far less populated by primadonnas needing their toe nails done every night and more by people who excelled in the self sufficient space. In those pre MTB boom days riders used a single bottle cage that was used for carrying a tool box and wore a hydration pack (this is before someone decided to put a catheter in a moonbag and call it a hip or fanny pack).

 

accomodation is not a necessity. Its also an area requiring daily sanitation whereas rider pitching their own tents isn't a problem.

this also lowers the cost in an era where disposable income is at a premium.

 

get it back to basics 

[MORNE]

also…ive been vaccinated for a few weeks now and the other day found it mildly annoying that i was still standing in a line at a restaurant to get scanned by a uselessly inacurate infrared surface temp guage telling me i have hyperthermia…

such a futile excersize.

my point being…if you cant produce proof of vaccination going forward, you cant enter.

Anything. 

ps: It minimizes the risks even further imo. Look at EU and US. they have capacity crowds at sporting events allready and 90%+ of people still ending up in hospital there (if you read the reports) are people who didnt get vaccinated. These events are trwated the same, no proof of jab..no entry.

 

Edited August 12, 2021 by MORNE

[DonatelloOnPinarello]

21 minutes ago, MORNE said:

also…ive been vaccinated for a few weeks now and the other day found it mildly annoying that i was still standing in a line at a restaurant to get scanned by a uselessly inacurate infrared surface temp guage telling me i have hyperthermia…

such a futile excersize.

my point being…if you cant produce proof of vaccination going forward, you cant enter.

Anything. 

ps: It minimizes the risks even further imo. Look at EU and US. they have capacity crowds at sporting events allready and 90%+ of people still ending up in hospital there (if you read the reports) are people who didnt get vaccinated. These events are trwated the same, no proof of jab..no entry.

 

Wether people like it or not, accept it or not, this is the only way forward. But we are so woefully behind the rest of the world in terms of vaccine rollout, it’s going to be at least another 18 months before this becomes a reality here. By the time they have vaccinated the 35 and under fully, it will have been too long since the oldies got their jabs, and the immunity will be waning, so we are going to be stuck in a perpetual cycle of catch up
 

 

[Rolf Hansen]

39 minutes ago, MORNE said:

also…ive been vaccinated for a few weeks now and the other day found it mildly annoying that i was still standing in a line at a restaurant to get scanned by a uselessly inacurate infrared surface temp guage telling me i have hyperthermia…

such a futile excersize.

my point being…if you cant produce proof of vaccination going forward, you cant enter.

Anything. 

ps: It minimizes the risks even further imo. Look at EU and US. they have capacity crowds at sporting events allready and 90%+ of people still ending up in hospital there (if you read the reports) are people who didnt get vaccinated. These events are trwated the same, no proof of jab..no entry.

 

Well that won't help. I have also been vaccinated but all it does is prevent me from becoming very ill. You can still get and spread Covid the same way an unvaccinated person can. 

[MORNE]

10 minutes ago, DonatelloOnPinarello said:

Wether people like it or not, accept it or not, this is the only way forward. But we are so woefully behind the rest of the world in terms of vaccine rollout, it’s going to be at least another 18 months before this becomes a reality here. By the time they have vaccinated the 35 and under fully, it will have been too long since the oldies got their jabs, and the immunity will be waning, so we are going to be stuck in a perpetual cycle of catch up
 

 

to be blunt again, the oldies had their chance. The stats that showed just how few of them actually went when it was their turn is just stupid. and i say this as someone who was fighting with his inlaws to go get the damn thing. Donkeys I tell you..all if them.

It is borderline aggravating seeing them now taking up space at the vac centers because they finally got told or saw that all their kids were so keen to get it and they now have fomo.

[MORNE]

9 minutes ago, Rolf Hansen said:

all it does is prevent me from becoming very ill. 

thats enough reason right there imo.cant hide from this crap forever. 

edit: Anyway,  i think @Mountain Bru had a good suggestion re the types of events that could work considering all the criteria. 

Edited August 12, 2021 by MORNE

[Jewbacca]

The events that 'work' tend to be slow moving, strung out events. This generally points to 'longer', which isn't appealing to most.

It means no massive congestion on the route, no massive congestion at the start finish area etc and due to the nature of the event, a smaller field by default.

The problem with having a route open for multiple days and a 'ride whenever you want between the 18th and 22nd' on a 50 to 80km event is that it would need total buy in from all involved. Medical teams, emergency staff, volunteers, land owners etc... The event can't suddenly pay all of the above for 4 days when it used to pay for 1. 

So complete buy in from the ground up by all will be the only way forward.

This doesn't begin to scratch the itch of the riders themselves. 

IMHO an event going forward could be run remotely and look as follows;

Trail centre like Jonkers buys in. 1 x 'enduro' option 1 x XCM option and 1 x All the racing option.

GPX files and a description of the route are downloaded. One pays X to buy a pass for the 7 days. Temp markers are put up.

One signs a waver that if they die it is their own fault. 

All timing is done on a GPS device. If the entrant does not have one, he can rent one from the organiser. Segments are market but 'secreted' and you can ride them as many times as you want in the week.

At the end, the leaderboards are made public and everyone feels happy they have been a part of something that semi placated their competitive needs.

The longer stuff seems to already have a blue print that works. Freedom Circuit type events cater for those who can't navigate and their other events cater for those who can or want to learn. 

One can take that model and move it across to the '500' series or a cross cape dash etc....

All ideas have their pitfalls, it is cyclists who are negative whiny and can't be pleased. If it's not SA Seeding its the type of numberboard, it's the registration, it's rolling starts, it's the waterpoints, it's too technical, it wasn't technical, the single track was jammed, I didn't see ANYONEand that's dangerous etc........ The common denominator in events struggling to evolve is cyclists.

[DonatelloOnPinarello]

To add to what Jewbacca is saying, about cyclists themselves being the problem. There have been a number of DIY races using the format you mentioned up in Gauteng at least, but this also doesn’t seem to keep everyone happy. The common gripes you hear are:

- I’m not going to pay anything extra if there isn’t event infrastructure in place (I kinda get that, The vibe is a big part of why people enter events, and obviously that is not okay at the moment)

- The GPS timing isn’t accurate enough. Guys seem to get vehemently upset about a second or two on the leaderboard when they are sitting at 151st anyway. I think this will remain an issue, until people start to realise that this is meant to be recreational. 

[Matt]

Mod note: A number of unrelated posts have been removed. Obviously Covid-19 will be a key part of any event related discussion at present and with that the topic of vaccinations / tests in the context of participation is likely to come into play.

Let's keep this related the impact on cycling events and possible solutions going forward. This is not the place to tout and debate your personal views towards vaccination, vaccine efficacy and the like. 

 

[dave303e]

Honestly my 2c on this....

If you riding for the sake of epic trails and views, then you really don't need an event. Infact you are just wasting money. Book a week at a destination trail area and go ride with friends rather and enjoy it.

If you want an ultra challenge then yes a longer tough event will be good, a lot of those are smaller and still happening. The counter to that is that they are so over priced here it is a joke. Pre covid it was cheaper to fly to Morocco to do a 1000km bikepacking race and fly home than it was to just enter the equivalent event locally. Which then makes you think- ok lets bikepack from oliviershoek to Underberg and enjoy it for 1/100th of the price and no it will not get cancelled.

 

 

[Tomik]

1 minute ago, dave303e said:

Honestly my 2c on this....

If you riding for the sake of epic trails and views, then you really don't need an event. Infact you are just wasting money. Book a week at a destination trail area and go ride with friends rather and enjoy it.

If you want an ultra challenge then yes a longer tough event will be good, a lot of those are smaller and still happening. The counter to that is that they are so over priced here it is a joke. Pre covid it was cheaper to fly to Morocco to do a 1000km bikepacking race and fly home than it was to just enter the equivalent event locally. Which then makes you think- ok lets bikepack from oliviershoek to Underberg and enjoy it for 1/100th of the price and no it will not get cancelled.

 

 

Spot on!

I still do smaller events - my favourite was a 20-man 3 day gravel "race" in the Overberg last year - stayed at hotels. Many people can still afford that (and want it, especially in winter!). That event this year will be 50-100 people. Will still be rad. I think these niche events will flourish as people want to ride with mates or like-minded people. 

But also overnight touring is so easy these days it makes some events redundant. A tiny backpack and a credit card is all one needs really. And some cash for those little dorpies is useful.

[Sydd]

We have thoroughly enjoyed the events in Gauteng where you are supplied with a GPX file and set off when you are ready, and get some jelly babies and a naartjie at the waterpoints. Most of the events we have done have been on district or open gravel roads so they are re-useable and great for future training rides. I love riding new routes! 

I really just want to race criteriums. Those are great for staggered starts, and you can avoid having too many spectators by streaming the event. In general they can be a great solution to many of the problems we have with road races such as extended road closures and the related costs, as well as road safety issues. 

Track racing is alive and reasonably well in Gauteng and seems to be a good outlet for people desperate to race at the moment. Central Gauteng was even a bit innovative and has spread the Provincial Track Champs over 3 Saturday afternoons instead of condensed in one weekend, to keep the numbers of people at the track a bit lower. SA Omnium champs are coming up on 11 September at Hector Norris Park and looks highly likely to be streamed. This will be great for the sport and also give the sponsors some nice return. 

Maybe it's time for people to be a bit flexible and try something new if the events that they are used to are not available in the same format they have grown comfortable with. Never know, you might find something you didn't even know you enjoy ???? 

[matthieup]

5 hours ago, DonatelloOnPinarello said:

Wether people like it or not, accept it or not, this is the only way forward. But we are so woefully behind the rest of the world in terms of vaccine rollout, it’s going to be at least another 18 months before this becomes a reality here. By the time they have vaccinated the 35 and under fully, it will have been too long since the oldies got their jabs, and the immunity will be waning, so we are going to be stuck in a perpetual cycle of catch up
 

 

Let's not blame the rollout. The amount of people not wanting to be vaccinated is ridiculous...

[matthieup]

5 hours ago, Rolf Hansen said:

Well that won't help. I have also been vaccinated but all it does is prevent me from becoming very ill. You can still get and spread Covid the same way an unvaccinated person can. 

But you won't die, just like the flu that is here every year, or gastro season etc...

[Danger Dassie]

8 hours ago, DonatelloOnPinarello said:

Wether people like it or not, accept it or not, this is the only way forward. But we are so woefully behind the rest of the world in terms of vaccine rollout, it’s going to be at least another 18 months before this becomes a reality here. By the time they have vaccinated the 35 and under fully, it will have been too long since the oldies got their jabs, and the immunity will be waning, so we are going to be stuck in a perpetual cycle of catch up
 

 

Not entirely true. We've caught up significantly since the initial gumpf and the vaccine data put us ahead of many other nations sitting 12th-15th globally, about a month ago (unfortunately I don't have the graph on hand). Recently we were averaging just over 150k vaccinations daily with the rate going up. Following Sugan Naidoo on Twitter and the last update he posted on rate of vaccination was averaging 200k odd. 
Since supply chain has now been secured we should expect to see that increase even further. 

For events, especially tourism based events this is important, including those of us wishing to take part. 

There was a thread pertinent to this issue with a load of well sourced information, but it got hammer and sickled under a delete button.


 

Edited August 12, 2021 by Danger Dassie