First Look: Specialized Epic 8

[Baracuda]

Lots of posts with the general "no one is forcing you to buy it, so stop bitching" and yes, high prices for top end stuff is vaguely understandable, but the issue is the impact on the entry level bikes, which are now >100k.

The next forum topic will be on why entries are down in the Argus, why stage races are battling, why the bike market is battling. I believe the Average Joe view it as just too expensive. Most of the guys I used to ride with are now trail running, surfski'ing or something else where you pay <20k for a full set up. When you ask them why, they cite the cost of bikes and services.

This is not only in SA but overseas as well. Look at the Pinkbike comments on these bikes, the guys in the States also believe the pricing is plain stupid and unaffordable.

 

 

Edited March 14 by Baracuda

[Shebeen]

20 hours ago, LazyTrailRider said:

There's the (albeit extremely simplified) crux. Granted, the exchange rate has fluctuated wildly and has actually been better in some years than would expect given the long-term trajectory, but the bottom line is that at the current exchange rate (meaning, if we were as proportionately poor back then as we are now) an SW Epic would have cost R167k in 2010.

From that to R295k in 14 years is really not the "OMG, inflation multiplied by gazillion eleventy, this is getting insane!" thing people like to throw around. In fact, R167k in 2010 is R332k inflation-adjusted.

Yes, I know this is an oversimplification, but I wouldn't be surprised if the data roughly aligns.

in the oversimplifiication we're looking at it differently, but in 2010 rand terms no bike cost more than *R100k. So your R167k doesn't exist in 2010 rands, if you're back converting from today's price in relative mcdonald burger terms or something then that is a different argument.

 

*I'm sure someone can find the a local review on a 2010 spec epic top of the range online that would list the price in rand terms. All I could find with a quick search was the Bicycling.co.za buyers guide. internet archive gets me the 2010 and the search function tops out at R95-R99k. So I don't think your R167k Spec epic exists in 2010, .Therefore going back to your original statement that the top of the range mtb costs the same as an entry level polo, is false.

 

 

[The Ouzo]

Entire thread dominated by pricing and pricing comparisons.

Jewbecca summarized everything at the top of the first page.

 

But I'll add to the debate. 

Last year we launched our new hot hatch, close to 1bar. people had the same reactions, to expensive, I can get XYZ for cheaper wadda wadda wadda. We are still selling them, the price has creeped up to over a bar and they are still selling. And when we launch the replacement for this in a few years we'll get the same reactions.

Back to 2 wheels and the recently launched version of our superbike is close to R600k, its been out a month, all 3 units that were allocated to us have been sold. The one is not even going to be assembled, the guy is just buying it as a collectors item.

 

Brands will sell what their product at a price they have researched that their target market will buy them at. There will always be the initial shock reaction to the price, but once that desirability hits, the price is justified in their eyes and the product bought.

[Headshot]

On 3/14/2024 at 8:45 AM, J Wakefield said:

If you can’t afford it or like it, no need to bash it and justify why it’s over priced as a reason why you won’t buy it.

Spez will sell these bikes at this price in South Africa and every where else. I know a shop here that has an order list they can’t supply already on 1st drop. 
they also selling 15-20k euro custom built up road bikes daily. Its pretty incredible to see.

as with anything, there is a product for everyone and that’s great. 
 

True, but as I've said before, the overpricing at the upper end has an effect down the line. If you overcharge for the top model you can also raise your prices through the range as you can see with this bike. No aluminium frame option either. Giant do an ali Anthem I believes but the local importers don't bring them in.  So. I'm not sure there is actually a product for everyone, especially in the RSA.

 

The o

[Headshot]

23 hours ago, The Ouzo said:

Entire thread dominated by pricing and pricing comparisons.

Jewbecca summarized everything at the top of the first page.

 

But I'll add to the debate. 

Last year we launched our new hot hatch, close to 1bar. people had the same reactions, to expensive, I can get XYZ for cheaper wadda wadda wadda. We are still selling them, the price has creeped up to over a bar and they are still selling. And when we launch the replacement for this in a few years we'll get the same reactions.

Back to 2 wheels and the recently launched version of our superbike is close to R600k, its been out a month, all 3 units that were allocated to us have been sold. The one is not even going to be assembled, the guy is just buying it as a collectors item.

 

Brands will sell what their product at a price they have researched that their target market will buy them at. There will always be the initial shock reaction to the price, but once that desirability hits, the price is justified in their eyes and the product bought.

R600k for a BMW S1000RR (?)  sounds like a bargain next to the S Works.

[Duane_Bosch]

5 minutes ago, Headshot said:

R600k for a BMW S1000RR (?)  sounds like a bargain next to the S Works.

If you have a big enough set of onions you can go around the Isle of man TT course at 130+MPH on it.

[DieselnDust]

I am always amused at the comparison of a super bicycle being priced like a super car or a super yacht.

they are not even in the same universe from an engineering or man hours perspective. In terms of safety homologation the bicycle is an amoeba compared a car or motorbike. 
the amount of expensive carbon in the super bicycles is just there to deceive a buyer into believing their are buying a better product and therefore something to be smug about. 
any poephol can ride an s-works if their credit card is big enough, but it takes really special peophols to keep a heyabuseher or S1000RR or Firestorm on the road going straight let along get it around corners. 

 

id get a MtB with DS flight attendant in a heartbeat but no way I’d spend R105k on a bicycle frame especially one with as generic a name as specialised. Bicycles are overpriced across the board. If we look at the tech in a commuter bike from Haibike and it’s price compared to a stripped down bicycle to go slightly faster the pricing is all about ego. 
 

that said, I’d really like to have flight attendant on my next bike. I do believe that is game changing tech. Initially it’s going to cost a lot but it will trickle down whilst frame price skyrocket 

[GHOST FACE]

21 minutes ago, Headshot said:

True, but as I've said before, the overpricing at the upper end has an effect down the line. If you overcharge for the top model you can also raise your prices through the range as you can see with this bike. No aluminium frame option either. Giant do an ali Anthem I believes but the local importers don't bring them in.  So. I'm not sure there is actually a product for everyone, especially in the RSA.

 

The o

Giant stopped making Alloy Anthems 3 yrs ago. 2021 was the last year model. Giant SA has some custom built version that stores can order. Spec isn't great but it's a good platform for upgrading on a budget. https://www.dragons.co.za/giant/mtb-performance-bikes/giaan29cust-anthem-29er-custom

[BaGearA]

Hasn't the epic been AXS exclusive now for a year or two ? 

 

I recall them no longer molding routing for gear housing or cables or something along those lines which dictate wireless only drivetrains ? 

[Giant Bicycles South Africa]

On 3/14/2024 at 7:47 AM, BaGearA said:

After 7 pages I'm a bigger Giant fan than Spez 

We're big fans of you, too.

[Shebeen]

On 3/14/2024 at 12:13 PM, The Ouzo said:

Entire thread dominated by pricing and pricing comparisons.

Brands will sell what their product at a price they have researched that their target market will buy them at. There will always be the initial shock reaction to the price, but once that desirability hits, the price is justified in their eyes and the product bought.

That's the crux of it. As mtb has become the "new golf" and C level execs all need to be in on it to be making deals, so the market has shifted. Not sure if this is a good thing for joe public at the middle end as it clearly generates healthy revenue for the LBS or just makes everything relatively pricier.

20yrs ago, you could not buy a version of the world champion's bike. At that level there would be a lot of custom kit, any top10 rider on a stock bike would make a few waves. Things have changed, and rapidly.

I'm surprised you're surprised people are still talking about it. MTB for R295k - of course people are going to roll eyes and comment. Wasn't that long ago that the first R100k+ RRP bike got the internets burning. Also, this is launched at the backdrop of Trek downscaling their stock and models with an oversupply.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[BaGearA]

16 minutes ago, Giant Bicycles South Africa said:

We're big fans of you, too.

Awwwwwww❤️

[Nick]

So like have you seen the bargains in the hardtails section of the classifieds?

But yeah, I suppose you can't take the risk of losing out on that podium spot if your frame wasn't moulded by hand or the shifting isn't done with a motor 🤷‍♂️

The problem is us, not the bike manufacturers.

[DieselnDust]

15 minutes ago, Shebeen said:

That's the crux of it. As mtb has become the "new golf" and C level execs all need to be in on it to be making deals, so the market has shifted. Not sure if this is a good thing for joe public at the middle end as it clearly generates healthy revenue for the LBS or just makes everything relatively pricier.

20yrs ago, you could not buy a version of the world champion's bike. At that level there would be a lot of custom kit, any top10 rider on a stock bike would make a few waves. Things have changed, and rapidly.

I'm surprised you're surprised people are still talking about it. MTB for R295k - of course people are going to roll eyes and comment. Wasn't that long ago that the first R100k+ RRP bike got the internets burning. Also, this is launched at the backdrop of Trek downscaling their stock and models with an oversupply.

 

 

 

 

 

 

….and layoffs.

[Shebeen]

4 minutes ago, Nick said:

So like have you seen the bargains in the hardtails section of the classifieds?

But yeah, I suppose you can't take the risk of losing out on that podium spot if your frame wasn't mould by hand or the shifting isn't done with a motor 🤷‍♂️

The problem is us, not the bike manufacturers.

@Nick just for reference sake, found this on the topic tag - your review on the 2017 S-Works epic, (guessing that would be about V5 in the range if this is V8?)

Was R140k, and the comments are indeed similar on pricing at the extremes of the range!

https://bikehub.co.za/news/first-ride-2017-specialized-s-works-epic-29-world-cup-r6033/

[DieselnDust]

2 minutes ago, Nick said:

So like have you seen the bargains in the hardtails section of the classifieds?

But yeah, I suppose you can't take the risk of losing out on that podium spot if your frame wasn't mould by hand or the shifting isn't done with a motor 🤷‍♂️

The problem is us, not the bike manufacturers.

Indeed, that’s why there’s the “vote with your wallet “

all the electronics has actually made bikes heavier. 
so if a R100k mechanical bike still weighs the same as R100k bike from 2018 and the shifting and braking is similar in performance than that’s a win, but it’s not. 
todays R100k bike is over a kilo heavier.

and this is not just a SA inflation thing, it’s a global discontent that is playing out in declining sales