Cape Town danger areas

[Robbie Stewart]

23 hours ago, The itch said:

he 'carries' and has been itching to use it.

There is a term for this kind of behaviour. You can refer to it as psychotic, or you can consider it behaviour by someone who is patently stupid. Either way, shooting at someone flinging bricks or pulling people off bicycles is going to be interesting to defend in a criminal court, provided the moron with the gun doesn't get taken out first when he runs out of rounds.

Anyone cycling with a firearm is looking for $h!T

 

[Wynando]

5 hours ago, Andreas_187 said:

Nobody around at 5:30 or 8:30 this morning 

Will be rolling through there around 07:20 / 07:30'ish tomorrow. Will have a few mates, but will be awake and have some pepper ready.

[Duane_Bosch]

2 hours ago, Robbie Stewart said:

Anyone cycling with a firearm is looking for $h!T

As much as it galls me to agree with this point I do. Somewhat.

If you apply the OODA loop to a bikejacking scenario the crim is WELL ahead of you by the time you are even aware of the threat. They've observed, orientated, decided and they are busy acting. It's unlikely that you are going to be able to deploy a firearm in time to ward off the attack. In a home invasion scenario hopefully your alarm is on and your doors are locked which will give you a few seconds to catch up.

Add to that the fact that you can only legally use a firearm in self defense if your LIFE is threatened. Maybe you could argue that having a brick thrown at you is life threatening. I don't know.

Concealment is also an issue. Our law states that you must conceal your firearm. Riding with a firearm with a visible silhouette is probably illegal and could possibly make you a target. Riding with it in a backpack is a waste of time IMO.

 

Edited February 8 by Duane_Bosch

[Andreas_187]

1 hour ago, Wynando said:

Will be rolling through there around 07:20 / 07:30'ish tomorrow. Will have a few mates, but will be awake and have some pepper ready.

What I meant is that I went in and out of town on my morning ride and didn't see any brick throwers. Same again tomorrow morning 

[babse]

On 2/7/2024 at 8:26 AM, GDG said:

Just FYI..got a notification that it happened AGAIN this morning... during traffic!!

Any of these incidents been reported with SAPS? Will be of great benefit if we could get more than 1 case number for the same location.

Welcome to DM me if I could reach out to said individuals...

[Robbie Stewart]

1 hour ago, Duane_Bosch said:

If you apply the OODA loop to a bikejacking scenario the crim is WELL ahead of you by the time you are even aware of the threat. They've observed, orientated, decided and they are busy acting.

I distinctly recall a bike jacking around Somerset West circa 2014 when a chap riding around the Helderberg trails* got a firearm shoved in his face before he knew what was going on. He was riding with a go-pro strapped to his helmet and the jacker even looked straight at it before telling the cyclist to beat it while he mounted the bike to ride away. That video was widely circulated, even on here as well. The point is, the rider had NO time to react. All he could do was dismount, hand the bike over and leave hoping he doesn't get punched full of holes with hot lead. Had he been carrying I am 100% sure he would have been dead.

* I stand corrected, it was a decade ago.

[ChrisF]

4 minutes ago, Robbie Stewart said:

I distinctly recall a bike jacking around Somerset West circa 2014 when a chap riding around the Helderberg trails* got a firearm shoved in his face before he knew what was going on. He was riding with a go-pro strapped to his helmet and the jacker even looked straight at it before telling the cyclist to beat it while he mounted the bike to ride away. That video was widely circulated, even on here as well. The point is, the rider had NO time to react. All he could do was dismount, hand the bike over and leave hoping he doesn't get punched full of holes with hot lead. Had he been carrying I am 100% sure he would have been dead.

* I stand corrected, it was a decade ago.

 

My near jack experience was two "pedestrians" .... despite their "body language", there was NO legal reason to deploy a firearm, nevermind even thinking of using it.

 

By the time they made their move it was all over in less than 2 seconds !!!  Thankfully the accellaration of the ebike caught them off guard, on a normal bike I would be walking home.

[McD23]

21 hours ago, Duane_Bosch said:

As much as it galls me to agree with this point I do. Somewhat.

If you apply the OODA loop to a bikejacking scenario the crim is WELL ahead of you by the time you are even aware of the threat. They've observed, orientated, decided and they are busy acting. It's unlikely that you are going to be able to deploy a firearm in time to ward off the attack. In a home invasion scenario hopefully your alarm is on and your doors are locked which will give you a few seconds to catch up.

Add to that the fact that you can only legally use a firearm in self defense if your LIFE is threatened. Maybe you could argue that having a brick thrown at you is life threatening. I don't know.

Concealment is also an issue. Our law states that you must conceal your firearm. Riding with a firearm with a visible silhouette is probably illegal and could possibly make you a target. Riding with it in a backpack is a waste of time IMO.

 

Paragraph 1 basically correct.

But bear in mind there is a world wide narrative to disincentivize civilians from having the means to viably defend themselves in confrontations with violent perpetrators and allow 'trained LE' responders to come save you in that given moment, that doesn't often work out well for the victim to have armed response post the event. Its a Catch 22 carrying, it is definitely not for everyone and comes with it own unique set of complications.

2 if you are under attack, reasonable, rational and proportional will apply. Reality is in this country many victims of attacks with stones/bricks/clubs/knives/fists have died, you would be able to justify in most cases if attacked with the above defense. You don't have to use the same means of defense/weapon as they using to attack you.

3 yes concealment is a requirement, if it in a holster, under shirt/cover or bag it legally concealed.

 

[Robbie Stewart]

2 minutes ago, McD23 said:

3 yes concealment is a requirement, if it in a holster, under shirt/cover or bag it legally concealed.

and here is the rub. How do you retrieve a holstered firearm from concealment during an attack, when the perpetrator already has the advantage? 

Now, try that on a bicycle.

And I am pretty confident drawing first will be tough to defend if the perpetrator hasn't attacked you yet. If, in this case, the two chaps chucking rocks see you approaching and watch you draw on them, if they don't do anything, can it be argued that they were going to attack you?

Now, I am not against the right to carry and use a firearm. I am just not convinced that someone trying that on a bicycle is the best choice.

I don't know what the right choice is either, but carrying a concealed firearm on a bicycle ride is pretty pointless. It's akin to having pepper spray on your back in the camel back. 

[mikkelz]

I've got a solution!

[RustyHWR]

2 minutes ago, mikkelz said:

I've got a solution!

Wow. Steel is real - Single speed - Ebike (battery on carrier) and white wall tires + frame bag. What more can you ask for?

[MORNE]

I sit on that offramp in traffic every morning. Some mornings s taxi stops, door opens, the genie guides traffic around and the guys down the bank run up and load things into the taxi. Ive not seen things resembling bicycles….but it looks super dodge anyway

[The Ouzo]

3 minutes ago, mikkelz said:

I've got a solution!

I have another solution

 

my BIL works for an arms manufacturer in another country, his team created drones that autonomously take out ground to air missiles. A bit of reprogramming and you could have these drones following you taking out the perps.  

[mikkelz]

24 minutes ago, RustyHWR said:

Wow. Steel is real - Single speed - Ebike (battery on carrier) and white wall tires + frame bag. What more can you ask for?

A flat white while chilling outside TRUTH! 😂

[Wannabe]

My own mantra. "Rather have a firearm and not need it, than need one and not have it"

The attacks on cyclists are getting more violent and unprovoked. Not looking good for the pacifists/just hand over your property, lobby.

I'm of the firm believe that these attacks at the hotspots will continue/escalate, until such time the perps are caught in the act and taught a good lesson before (or even invoving) the authorities.

Who remembers the spate of attacks on Old Helz that was ongoing for a while, until the perps tried their luck with the wrong group of Mtb'ers and got a good dressing down. The attacks stopped immediately after that. And that is a fact.

 

[BaGearA]

16 hours ago, Wannabe said:

My own mantra. "Rather have a firearm and not need it, than need one and not have it"

The attacks on cyclists are getting more violent and unprovoked. Not looking good for the pacifists/just hand over your property, lobby.

I'm of the firm believe that these attacks at the hotspots will continue/escalate, until such time the perps are caught in the act and taught a good lesson before (or even invoving) the authorities.

Who remembers the spate of attacks on Old Helz that was ongoing for a while, until the perps tried their luck with the wrong group of Mtb'ers and got a good dressing down. The attacks stopped immediately after that. And that is a fact.

 

I like stories like that but honestly

 

Fight for my life ? All day everyday 

 

Fight for my bicycle ? Yeah nahh ....cyclesure will payout and i might not be crippled/ blinded or dead