Do eBikes belong on the mountain?

[lechatnoir]

Has cycling really become all about strava KOMs?

 

I find it amusing that you and others on this thread only object to bikes with motors if they take KOMs.

 

And here is the irony. The argument for is it is totally ok as it is a bicycle. But when it comes to awards and prizes it is not a bicycle.

 

It really sounds like you missed a meeting somewhere... if NOT for KOMs, what is cycling all about?  

 

and no... no irony... ebikes enhance performance... so if it's about prizes/money, then performance enhancement is NOT ayoba... you know... like PEDs... those are not cool either. not once. and sure as heck, not seven times

[Patchelicious]

So what are the objections to them? (Leave Strava out for now)

 

Safety?

Potential trails access?

Trail damage?

Race Categories?

 

Then separately, where do we draw the line between eBicycles and eMotorbikes?

[BigDL]

some advertising ..... 44sec mark is a classy way to advertise e-bikes on trails.

 

https://youtu.be/A65dt-zLdSw

My son has a KTM 125 that he whizzes around our fields on. Just like the guy on the trails in the video, he never pedals. That bike in the ad is not an ebike surely, rather an electric motorbike

[Patchelicious]

My son has a KTM 125 that he whizzes around our fields on. Just like the guy on the trails in the video, he never pedals. That bike in the ad is not an ebike surely, rather an electric motorbike

see my post above.

[Thor Buttox]

So what are the objections to them? (Leave Strava out for now)

 

Safety?No, because when you have had a massive crash and can't get cell phone reception, you can remount and the bike will take you up the hill.

 

Potential trails access?

It's not the potential access, but the actual access that is the problem, obviously.

 

Trail damage?

Trail-braking damage.

 

Race Categories?

Don't bring that into it now, man. Eish. So sick of ZA issues.

 

Then separately, where do we draw the line between eBicycles and eMotorbikes?

See above. It is not about the tool, but the tools that use them. Whoever smashes a trail is a tool. An e-biker who smashes a KOM is a tool. A normal cyclist who thinks fat, lazy, unfit people shouldn't have help if they can afford it is a tool. (irony font intended)

 

Don't be a tool.

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

So what are the objections to them? (Leave Strava out for now)

 

Safety?

Potential trails access?

Trail damage?

Race Categories?

 

Then separately, where do we draw the line between eBicycles and eMotorbikes?

The use of a throttle to control output, and the lack of a requirement to be pedalling in order to engage the motor assistance. 

[Pure Savage]

See above. It is not about the tool, but the tools that use them. Whoever smashes a trail is a tool. An e-biker who smashes a KOM is a tool. A normal cyclist who thinks fat, lazy, unfit people shouldn't have help if they can afford it is a tool. (irony font intended)

 

Don't be a tool.

 

The mtb'ers are the problem with trail access, the amount of rogue riding is the issue really, not what type of bike they are on. 

 

Regardless of the bikes, knobs will be knobs. Saying that the person that buys an e-bike will be a bigger knob than the current MTB'ers is a big thumb suck.

[Thor Buttox]

The mtb'ers are the problem with trail access, the amount of rogue riding is the issue really, not what type of bike they are on.

 

Regardless of the bikes, knobs will be knobs. Saying that the person that buys an e-bike will be a bigger knob than the current MTB'ers is a big thumb suck.

Roadies doing mountain biking you mean. On 26's. And lycra. Numpties galore.

[Patchelicious]

The mtb'ers are the problem with trail access, the amount of rogue riding is the issue really, not what type of bike they are on. 

 

Regardless of the bikes, knobs will be knobs. Saying that the person that buys an e-bike will be a bigger knob than the current MTB'ers is a big thumb suck.

Agreed, but I think that the "perception" that these are motorbikes might have a negative effect on trail owners?

 

Also, if injuries occur due to heavy eBikes crashing into normal trail users, there might also be extra liability.... all this could be bad.

 

So we should just think about how to deal with it.

[SwissVan]

So what are the objections to them? (Leave Strava out for now)

 

Safety?

Potential trails access?

Trail damage?

Race Categories?

 

Then separately, where do we draw the line between eBicycles and eMotorbikes?

Safety is an issue imo

The rest are minor concerns as people will still bend / break the rules regardless of what bike they pedal.

 

From a safety perspective I've personally seen accidents and close calls due to guys riding ebikes

The problem is they are silent and faster than a normal bicycles and other traffic on the road (pedestrians and cars ) Misjudge the speed as result and bang you have a collision. I've mentioned it previously how I have nearly been hit by guys riding these bikes at speed on the same path I'm jogging on because they come up behind you so quickly and silently.

 

We even had a fatality on one of the local walkin/jogging/cycling paths here last year when 2 ebike cyclists going in opposite directions hit each other on a narrow bridge.

 

There are thousands of these ebikes around here and lots of similar incidents where they are involved in accidents due to loosing control or colliding with other traffic.

[Headshot]

Safety is an issue imo

The rest are minor concerns as people will still bend / break the rules regardless of what bike they pedal.

 

From a safety perspective I've personally seen accidents and close calls due to guys riding ebikes

The problem is they are silent and faster than a normal bicycles and other traffic on the road (pedestrians and cars ) Misjudge the speed as result and bang you have a collision. I've mentioned it previously how I have nearly been hit by guys riding these bikes at speed on the same path I'm jogging on because they come up behind you so quickly and silently.

 

We even had a fatality on one of the local walkin/jogging/cycling paths here last year when 2 ebike cyclists going in opposite directions hit each other on a narrow bridge.

 

There are thousands of these ebikes around here and lots of similar incidents where they are involved in accidents due to loosing control or colliding with other traffic.

Interesting observations. I wonder how many non ebike accidents there are in places like Holland for instance? At Tokai on Saturday two cyclists collided on the access jeep track. Both were travelling down the hill, the one at plonker pace and the other somewhat faster by all accounts. The plonker simply turned right into the path of the other cyclists as he was passing. Sounds like at least one of them made a trip to the ER afterwards. 

[carbon29er]

So what are the objections to them? (Leave Strava out for now)

 

Safety?

Potential trails access?

Trail damage?

Race Categories?

 

Then separately, where do we draw the line between eBicycles and eMotorbikes?

To me it's about enjoying nature naturally, under one's own steam, without motorised aids.

 

I accept there are the 4x4 community who enjoy exploring like they do. And the MX/scrambler community who enjoy what they do. Hell, there are even quad bike jols in most rural areas.  They are welcome to play how they want to without interference from those who don't join them.

 

Safety does come in to it. But my resistance has more to do philosophically about nature and the reward for being able to do it for oneself having been granted access to public land. Private land owners can allow what they want.

 

If you cannot walk to the top of the mountain on a hiking trail you don't get to see it. It is your choice not to be able to walk. Obvious disabilities excluded but I'm pointing at a big chunk of the population who choose to be obese and do not exercise.

 

Why should cycling be any different? Because you have tons of cash to throw at a motor you now get to ride on trails that mountain bikers have spent years negotiating access to. Had they gone along asking for access by motors where do you think it would be?

 

So in my it's wrong or it's my way world, if you cannot ride there yourself go join the 4x4 community, the MX/scrambler community or the quad bike guys. But leave the natural open trails to pedal cycles, hikers and horses. Oh and runners. Sad as they are.

 

In the US, forestry has determined an arbitrary 750w/1hp for access by motors. Hell, I'd love to produce 750w to climb the mast.

 

Sooner or later access WILL be an issue.

 

And that is my reason for being reluctant.

[GrahamS2]

Has cycling really become all about strava KOMs?

 

I find it amusing that you and others on this thread only object to bikes with motors if they take KOMs.

 

And here is the irony. The argument for is it is totally ok as it is a bicycle. But when it comes to awards and prizes it is not a bicycle.

I personally don't use strava, so no. I only ride for enjoyment and don't really care what other people do on their bikes or how they get to the top of climbs. So long as they don't get in my way or damage the trails excessively, they can do what they like.

[NotSoBigBen]

Of the few e-bikes I have seen around locally only 1 of those persons, to my mind at least, has a reason to need one .... the others well just cause they can I suppose

[Patchelicious]

Safety is an issue imo

The rest are minor concerns as people will still bend / break the rules regardless of what bike they pedal.

 

From a safety perspective I've personally seen accidents and close calls due to guys riding ebikes

The problem is they are silent and faster than a normal bicycles and other traffic on the road (pedestrians and cars ) Misjudge the speed as result and bang you have a collision. I've mentioned it previously how I have nearly been hit by guys riding these bikes at speed on the same path I'm jogging on because they come up behind you so quickly and silently.

 

We even had a fatality on one of the local walkin/jogging/cycling paths here last year when 2 ebike cyclists going in opposite directions hit each other on a narrow bridge.

 

There are thousands of these ebikes around here and lots of similar incidents where they are involved in accidents due to loosing control or colliding with other traffic.

Good points,Thank you.

 

I think we should listen to those who are already dealing with an increase in pedal assisted bicycles.

 

What is the current thinking on your local trails when it comes to the inclusion of eBikes?

[Patchelicious]

To me it's about enjoying nature naturally, under one's own steam, without motorised aids.

 

I accept there are the 4x4 community who enjoy exploring like they do. And the MX/scrambler community who enjoy what they do. Hell, there are even quad bike jols in most rural areas.  They are welcome to play how they want to without interference from those who don't join them.

 

Safety does come in to it. But my resistance has more to do philosophically about nature and the reward for being able to do it for oneself having been granted access to public land. Private land owners can allow what they want.

 

If you cannot walk to the top of the mountain on a hiking trail you don't get to see it. It is your choice not to be able to walk. Obvious disabilities excluded but I'm pointing at a big chunk of the population who choose to be obese and do not exercise.

 

Why should cycling be any different? Because you have tons of cash to throw at a motor you now get to ride on trails that mountain bikers have spent years negotiating access to. Had they gone along asking for access by motors where do you think it would be?

 

So in my it's wrong or it's my way world, if you cannot ride there yourself go join the 4x4 community, the MX/scrambler community or the quad bike guys. But leave the natural open trails to pedal cycles, hikers and horses. Oh and runners. Sad as they are.

 

In the US, forestry has determined an arbitrary 750w/1hp for access by motors. Hell, I'd love to produce 750w to climb the mast.

 

Sooner or later access WILL be an issue.

 

And that is my reason for being reluctant.

 

Ok cool, so your primary reason is a more principled and emotive one. (Doesnt mean its wrong), I "feel" the same way as you do sometimes... my old man and I argue about it the whole time Doesn't mean either of us is wrong. He thinks its ok for him to one, I say why the hell does he want to when he is more than capable of beating 80% of the field on his Epic anyways.... That discussion is not for here. So I am actually more in your boat here.

 

However, it is slightly more difficult to get people to understand, let alone agree with "principled" based views. How I "feel" about eBike should have no bearing on other peoples choices. HOWEVER if there re valid and real issues, safety etc, then we need to discuss those.

 

On the access, I do think that sooner or later. "Pedal Power Only" or even "No eBikes" signs will pop up. Last thing that I want to see is some dude on some super modified eBike roosting it around  corner like Bubba Stewart, full opposite lock only to plow into a family on a chilled pedal around the Green Route of their local MTB track.

 

http://www.ftemoto.com/MX/HTwallpaper/images/A15F6938.jpg

 

I suppose its the prerogative of the land owner, or clubs to make this decision. Point I am making is that these decisions points are coming, we might as well think about how to handle them now already.