Do eBikes belong on the mountain?

[anybody seen george?]

(And its not even Friday yet!  )

Edited March 18, 2019 by anybody seen george?

[Rigardt@Scott]

so according to you ebikes increase traffic

 

and you anti that

 

i would have thought more people riding was the aim regardless of what they riding

 

so according to your model the less people riding the better?

Although I don't agree with his point you have missed it completely. He is not saying more traffic is a bad thing, he is saying more traffic = more maintenance needed, so those users (ebikers) should pay more trail fees.

[Jewbacca]

Although I don't agree with his point you have missed it completely. He is not saying more traffic is a bad thing, he is saying more traffic = more maintenance needed, so those users (ebikers) should pay more trail fees.

But is it a valid point?

 

Most trail networks only maintain the trails once a year. At a stretch twice.

 

Not cutting trees/clearing, but actually rebuilding berms etc.

 

In the WC after summer when it's been dry and blown out and before/during early rains so it beds.

 

Whether that is 50000 or 60000 bikes through there per annum it won't really change.

 

With MTO pulling funding in Jonkers it will also likely go back to the 'once a year' model if that.

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

Although I don't agree with his point you have missed it completely. He is not saying more traffic is a bad thing, he is saying more traffic = more maintenance needed, so those users (ebikers) should pay more trail fees.

following that logic, it should be scaled on a per km ridden basis, if that's what he's worried about (extra use / impact)

 

IE the fitter you are, and more distance you cover, the more you need to pay for trail maintenance. 

 

My answer to that: fkoff. A single pricing structure is key. If Joe Bloggs who rides an e-bike needs to pay R 1,500 per year vs my non e-bike's R 400, then no. What if JB has an e-bike AND another bike? Some sort of middle ground? What if JB on the e-bike still only does the same amount of distance as I do? Or if I do more? That means I, the non e-biker, does more distance and "has a higher impact on the trails" - do I pay more, then? 

 

Just... No. 

[Rigardt@Scott]

But is it a valid point?

 

Most trail networks only maintain the trails once a year. At a stretch twice.

 

Not cutting trees/clearing, but actually rebuilding berms etc.

 

In the WC after summer when it's been dry and blown out and before/during early rains so it beds.

 

Whether that is 50000 or 60000 bikes through there per annum it won't really change.

 

With MTO pulling funding in Jonkers it will also likely go back to the 'once a year' model if that.

I'm on the fence about it.... I don't really believe ebikes increase traffic more than normal bicycle users. Take for example my pops who buys a year pass for Jonkers to ride his ebike 3 times around the circle route - does he get a discount? Do I need to pay more if I go +/-50 times a year on my normal bike.

 

Some ebike users ride many laps, some ride next to nothing, the same can be said for riders of normal bikes.

 

Now the next question must be asked, if I buy an ebike - do I need to buy seperate permits for my normal bike and ebike? So effectively I pay more than twice what I do now (since the ebike permit is more expensive than mtb permit) to ride maybe a little bit more?

 

Personaly I think increasing fees just divides the community further and puts people off buying permits. My opinion (and it's just an opinion) is that permits bought by ebikers at normal price contributes more than their use of the trails detract from the quality of trails.

Edited March 18, 2019 by Grease_Monkey

[Zatopek]

But is it a valid point?

 

Most trail networks only maintain the trails once a year. At a stretch twice.

 

Not cutting trees/clearing, but actually rebuilding berms etc.

 

In the WC after summer when it's been dry and blown out and before/during early rains so it beds.

 

Whether that is 50000 or 60000 bikes through there per annum it won't really change.

 

With MTO pulling funding in Jonkers it will also likely go back to the 'once a year' model if that.

This is actually a very valid argument 

 

[Maybe?] one can argue that if a certain technical section can take 'x' amounts of runs before it require repairs / taped off, then that will just happen earlier in the summer? Counter that with: a) building more trails to spread the traffic volume,

b) use artificial material to increase the carrying capacity

c) or build trails that is more sustainable  

 

Actions that could cost money...

 

For the record, I don't argue to tax a high mileage person - it takes effort to become fit or do more miles. Humans are lazy, so the traffic volume are self regulating at the top end of mileage. (I'm NOT saying that laziness are the reason for the existence of ebikes )

 

Except you now have a technology that with the press of a button shift (not remove) that self-regulation chart profile drastically to the right, specifically for the 'capable' riders that buy an ebike to get more runs / time unit.

 

That said, the administration and regulation of different licenses for different bike classifications will be near impossible. I have no idea how to implement that.

 

The fact remains: increase in traffic volume / time unit WILL happen in the next couple of years and the topic require some thought - at the very least prepare for an increase in trail fees to everyone, while ensuring that children or people with a lower income can still enter the sport.

 

I strongly believe that everyone that want to ride should be welcomed and trail fees should allow that to happen. (Be that on an ebike or a 10 year hold second hand bike)

[Thor Buttox]

following that logic, it should be scaled on a per km ridden basis, if that's what he's worried about (extra use / impact)

 

IE the fitter you are, and more distance you cover, the more you need to pay for trail maintenance.

 

My answer to that: fkoff. A single pricing structure is key. If Joe Bloggs who rides an e-bike needs to pay R 1,500 per year vs my non e-bike's R 400, then no. What if JB has an e-bike AND another bike? Some sort of middle ground? What if JB on the e-bike still only does the same amount of distance as I do? Or if I do more? That means I, the non e-biker, does more distance and "has a higher impact on the trails" - do I pay more, then?

 

Just... No.

Some of us are steam rollers, some of us 18 wheelers, some are bakkies, some are mopeds and some are bicyclists. Fees should definitely be based on weight, with a discount for ground compacting ability on new trail. Edited March 19, 2019 by Thor Buttox

[mazambaan]

He he all good fun; when does an e bike become an e (motor) bike (KTM e-sx, Alta etc)?

 

Asking for a friend.

[BigDL]

He he all good fun; when does an e bike become an e (motor) bike (KTM e-sx, Alta etc)?

 

Asking for a friend.

Well, presumably it becomes a motorbike as soon as you have a motor assisting. Not sure that there is any difference between a KTM ebike and a KTM 990 for the purpose of bicycle v motorbike

 

 

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[GaryP]

Well, presumably it becomes a motorbike as soon as you have a motor assisting. Not sure that there is any difference between a KTM ebike and a KTM 990 for the purpose of bicycle v motorbike

 

 

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Surely there are many differences between a KTM 990 and a KTM ebike?

[Rigardt@Scott]

It becomes a motorobike when you put a motor in it***

 

*Joking, but not actually. Motorbikes are fun though - the ones with throttles and the ones with pedals.

[BigDL]

Surely there are many differences between a KTM 990 and a KTM ebike?

Of course, but for the purpose of motorbike v bicycle, they both fall into a similar category. Wouldn’t like to do the Paris Dakar on a KTM ebike though

 

 

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[GaryP]

Of course, but for the purpose of motorbike v bicycle, they both fall into a similar category. Wouldn’t like to do the Paris Dakar on a KTM ebike though

 

 

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Sorry but I fail to understand how they are that similar... One you turn the throttle and it launches you forward with significant power and the other assists you to some degree when you peddle. How much assistance you get on an ebike can be scaled up and down to increase or decrease the assistance provided while the motorbike (MB) has lots of kW and torque for you to use while doing nothing much but modulating the throttle (just talking about how the power is delivered and not inferring that riding an MB is easy). Sure, an ebike is easier than a normal bicycle, but having ridden a MB, ebike and normal bicycle I would say that an ebike is much more like a normal bicycle than a MB. However, that's just my opinion :-) ciao.

[Patchelicious]

If you did the Epic on an eBike, would you still get to keep your Epic stickers and Evoq travel bag that you can show off when collecting luggage at the airport?

[MrJacques]

https://mybroadband.co.za/news/motoring/300364-honda-unveils-electric-dirt-bike.html

 

I think it's been asked before, but where do you draw the line between it being a mountain bike and it being a motorcycle? Power? Speed? Tyre size?

Edited March 25, 2019 by Jacquers

[Aurora]

EBikes had their own category at the Berg100 this past weekend.