Canyon Aeroad - Read if you planning on purchasing one

[fanievb]

Fun science fact - the only (theoretical) difference to performace that weight makes is in the wind resistance.

 

yes 

 

'cause us dik ouens are round and the skinny ones are built like a box with a nice flat front

 

http://www.3villagecsd.k12.ny.us/TechnologyEducationWebsite/technotebook/aerodynamics_files/image003.jpg

['Dale]

Time for some more science - thanks to wind resistance you don't have to super tuck if the guy in front of you is super tucking. You can happily stay seated doing a semi tuck and you'll catch up to super tucker. That way he takes the risk of cracking his frame while you gain all the advantage.

 

There is zero need whatsoever to risk for your frame by super tucking during training.

 

I get that we all want to be cool and pro and **** but risking your frame to be cool is a little silly.

 

Risking your front teeth is a little bit silly. 

[MudLark]

I'm thinking back to Ctct. I got dropped on Chappies due to okes trying to beat science, had to wait for the carnage to clear and then chase.

Coming down toward hout bay I simply made myself as small as possible; head low and steady, arms tucked in. And I caught several groups except the main bunch. I caught a couple of okes supertucking. I'll never forget the look on their faces. I think they figured there was no way they could be caught up if using that position.

 

I'm not convinced it's any faster, it's a hell of a lot less safe and you can't corner very well..

What nobody seems to consider is the legal risk. You supertuck. You have less control. Something goes wrong. Pile up results. People are injured or heaven forbid, killed. There's a strong argument to be made that you were not only negligent but downright reckless. You find yourself facing multiple personal injury claims. Insolvency beckons (and then maybe divorce too). There's also a culpable homicide charge (maybe a private prosecution) and the risk not only of a criminal record but also maybe even of some time in prison. All this to see if you can maybe gain a few fractions?

[Shebeen]

Given that I am one of the jerks on this thread a more even reply is probably in order...

...

Button weighs 86kg but only partially sits on the top tube - maybe 2/3 of his weight - ~60kg.

...

 

I'm still stuck at this point, I think it's probably a fraction of that in actual fact. We should also probably be talking in Newtons too by now to sound really engineery.

 

You have both hands and feet on the bike as contact points and then this disputed sitting on the top tube. There's no real gain to have so much force on the TT, you might as well have that all on your feet and just hover your butt on the TT. any little bump in the road is going to be proper eina if you sit on it.

 

but if you're really going to sit there, then doff your cap back to the 80's BMX days and get some decent foam on it

[dirtypot]

but if you're really going to sit there, then doff your cap back to the 80's BMX days and get some decent foam on it

 

 

This on a Canyon

[Bateleur1]

I'm still stuck at this point, I think it's probably a fraction of that in actual fact. We should also probably be talking in Newtons too by now to sound really engineery.

 

You have both hands and feet on the bike as contact points and then this disputed sitting on the top tube. There's no real gain to have so much force on the TT, you might as well have that all on your feet and just hover your butt on the TT. any little bump in the road is going to be proper eina if you sit on it.

 

but if you're really going to sit there, then doff your cap back to the 80's BMX days and get some decent foam on it

 

Don't think those were for sitting.  More like softening the impact on your nuts when the jump goes wrong. 

[Furbz]

yes 

 

'cause us dik ouens are round and the skinny ones are built like a box with a nice flat front

 

http://www.3villagecsd.k12.ny.us/TechnologyEducationWebsite/technotebook/aerodynamics_files/image003.jpg

 

exactly. this is why the bigger riders should go to the front and pull us skinny okes to our best times

[Jase619]

I'm still stuck at this point, I think it's probably a fraction of that in actual fact. We should also probably be talking in Newtons too by now to sound really engineery.

 

You have both hands and feet on the bike as contact points and then this disputed sitting on the top tube. There's no real gain to have so much force on the TT, you might as well have that all on your feet and just hover your butt on the TT. any little bump in the road is going to be proper eina if you sit on it.

 

but if you're really going to sit there, then doff your cap back to the 80's BMX days and get some decent foam on it

 

This should definitely be a real word, used to piss off the engineery snobs

[Eldron]

This should definitely be a real word, used to piss off the engineery snobs

 

Of course the luddites would choose a word that isn't real - just like the imaginary world of magic they live in   

 

Edit: HAHAHAHAHAHA https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=engineery  that's brilliant.

Edited August 30, 2018 by Eldron

[Jewbacca]

hahahahaha

 

The best part is 'Cipollini' IS an engineer!

 

With an MBA in engineery stuff as well. 

[Grogs]

Ok. So I'm going to reply to this because it the longest but also hopefully respond to some other remarks.

 

And also hopefully take this to Friday...

 

I think firstly I need to clarify my TT riding. I didn't have my full weight on the TT. Maybe not because I thought it couldn't handle it but because, like somebody mentioned, the control is better. My snotty email to Canyon - after what I perceived to be a rude reply - I only mentioned my riding category to emphasize that I know how to ride a bicycle competitively. After them comparing me to a pro I thought this was necessary. I too rode a few races in elite last year and this year I'm in VA... not the point but vastly different from 'A' batch. Around bends I would bear no weight on the top tube. On longer descents, like off the back of Longtom for example, I would take some weight off my legs and 'rest' (still not full load baring) on the top tube when the road allowed it. I feel I need to clarify this as an example was made where I was asked if I would stand on my top tube and jump on it? No of course not - and how I have just explained my illegal top tube riding, it is completely different to putting an 86kg gym bar on it like another person mentioned.

 

I was clearly ignorant before this and didn't realise riding on the top tube was so frowned upon. Maybe if I had consulted the ever wise Hub before, my email to Canyon may have been different? But as Canyon didn't give me any more information other than what a pro earns for a stage victory, I found it necessary to give them a piece of my mind. After never having cracked a top tube before and then cracking 3 in the same place I'm sure you can understand why I thought this has to be an issue with the bike or even a batch issue. My fiery reply to Canyon received no further information than the first email I got from them so I needed answers and this is where I came...

 

I think some have missed the point of my post. This is a 'single center study' as such. I never once advertised that you should not buy the Aeroad because it has a flawed design. This is my experience and I felt people considering the Aeroad should be made aware. If you are over 80kg, occasionally 'ride' on your top tube and planning on getting an Aeroad then I hope you would really consider this information before making your choice. If you are 65kg, never sit on your top tube and you want an Aeroad then this thread is completely irrelevant to you. Or, if you are the first type of person and you believe you are experienced enough, like a pro, to ride your top tube without issues then again this is irrelevant.

 

Another thing I need to clear is that I, in no way expect Canyon to honour the warranty. Not the first time and definitely not the third time! If this is the inherent design of their frame (which it seems so) and riding on your top tube is 'not normal bike use' and 'not normal bike use is not covered in the warranty then that is that. But what I have a problem with is why this is not communicated more clearly? Lots of you say "Ah its common logic"... ***! I'll admit that I had no idea of this 'common logic' (apart from balancing on one foot on my TT and jumping up and down) and I'd hazard a guess to say more that 50% of the viewers of this post are of the same opinion. Check this... Canyon have different classifications for their bikes denominated by numerals... so for example number 1 is for their road bikes and 2 for gravel bikes etc... (maybe my number or class is wrong but you get the point). So the Aeroad comes with a lovely big stick on the down tube 'Class 1' - Road use only. So any issues arising using the Aeroad on a jump track would not be covered by warranty. Road Bike = Road. Gravel Bike = Gravel... duh. This to me is as common as logic gets. Canyon will happily brand their bikes to explain which surface the bike should be ridden on but when it comes to the less 'common' of the logics, like sitting on a top tube, its not mentioned anywhere.

 

As Canyon didn't confirm or deny the occurrence of issues like this one can only assume it happens more than they would care to admit. Perhaps you'll only find the odd case of broken top tubes on the internet because when an Aeroad owner attempts a warranty claim they dont get as upset as I did and no one hears of it any further. This has been hugely distracting and a lot admin that I think a lot of people would rather avoid.

 

Pro's, amateurs and general public ride, sit and descend on their top tube. And in the context of my post why they do it is irrelevant - It happens - illegal or not.  As a premium bike manufacturer that targets the general public and weekend warriors, I believe they should take this into account and make it clearer that their top tube is designed to save weight and sitting on it may cause issues - rather than lumping it under 'normal bike use'. Normal bike use for a commute is different to normal bike use for a race? Sunday riders may have a completely different view of normal bike use than an amateur that races ever second weekend - both parties could easily own an Aeroad. If Canyon feel it’s necessary to let their customers know that the Aeroad must not be used on a MTB track then they definitely need to let customers know not to use the top tube. 

 

Lots of personal digs here too which are not really necessary but I can understand why. Some comments in my emails I may sound like a **** to you but Canyon had no idea who I was and with very little hesitation assumed my lack of experience. I was angry.. still am.

 

I would just like to highlight from my original post –

 

“It seems to me that manufacturers are trying to save weight anywhere they can with these new age aero frames and they end up compromising their bikes so much that they sit on such a fine line between beneficial and detrimental

 

 

 I would love to hear your guys thoughts and opinions and if anyone has experienced issues like this with their Canyon or even with other bikes.

 

 

 Again I dont want to be scathing but If I had this information at hand when I was making a decision I most likely would not have bought the Aeroad and I hope that potential buyers would appreciate the information.”

 

This was the aim of my post and I tried to make it clear to avoid a lot of the comments that have been posted… but there was always the chance that this would go a little astray…

And by they way how do you guys reply so quickly? There were 21 pages of comments I had to go through

 

I think I need to tell you to take what I am about to say in the best spirit possible OP.

 

I'm really not sure what's more fragile here - the ego of male 86kg one-level-below-pro-sub-vet or a 250g paper-thin TT of a Canyon Aeroad ...

 

Many of us KNOW that riding with ANY weight on the top tube (even as a World Tour pro) is silly -  you'll never win us over to your view (no matter how long your posts are). Even many experienced pros know its silly.

 

And, I also really don't want to be behind some palooka going down Chappies in ANY group (be it Elites, 1A group, sub-vets or group 28Z, I've ridden in all of them) who thinks he's entitled to supertuck because Sagan does it and because said palooka has a flash frame. Said palooka is endangering my life. 

 

I think it's time to move on and let it go now.

Edited August 30, 2018 by Grogs

[RocknRolla]

Just realised, when asked for info on certain things at work, I may be perceived as engineery

 

This thread is pure gold, learning all sorts of things.

[Patchelicious]

 

The good ol' days when bikes broke balls, and balls didnt break bikes!

[Slowbee]

The good ol' days when bikes broke balls, and balls didnt break bikes!

steel is real

[RocknRolla]

steel is real

 

That's why I ride steel bikes, because my balls ain't made of any kind of metal. One could say that I am compensating...

[Skirminkel]

I think I need to tell you to take what I am about to say in the best spirit possible OP.

 

I'm really not sure what's more fragile here - the ego of male 86kg one-level-below-pro-sub-vet or a 250g paper-thin TT of a Canyon Aeroad ...

 

Many of us KNOW that riding with any weight on the top tube (even as a World Tour pro) is silly -  you'll never win us over to your view (no matter how long your posts are). Even many experienced pros know its silly.

 

And, I also really don't want to be behind some palooka going down Chappies in ANY group (be it Elites, 1A group, sub-vets or group 28Z) who thinks he's entitled to supertuck because Sagan does it and because the palooka has a flash frame. The palooka is endangering my life. 

 

I think it's time to move on and let it go now. 

 

The supertuck is really not that big a deal.  You are still very in control of the bike even if you're just an average bike handler at best.  Try it, if you dont have a Canyon you will be OK.  

 

One other comment, if you weigh 86kg and sitting on the top tube, even though it might feel like you're putting your entire weight on the TT, you're not.  The weight of your legs wont be on the TT and the way your knees bend also takes off a lot of weight.